Rem 1903-A2 accuracy expectations

[44 Man]

I always thought that all '03's were Springfields but this 30-06 is marked Remington.  Anyway, I'm buying it from a friend of mine as a shooter.  This gun was professionally sporterized back in the '50's and is in fair shape.  The bore is dark, but the rifling is good with the barrel marked 'A2'.  There are a few tiny rust spots near the muzzle and it has an inexpensive 4X scope and what was once a nice (and could be again) roll-over stock on it.  What I'd like to know from shooters out there (since I cannot get to a range anytime soon) is what kind of accuracy can I expect from a rifle like this?  Even though I'm getting it extremely cheap, I don't keep firearms that are not accurate.  I would accept 3" maybe 4" groups at 100 yds from a rifle like this, but I'd be much happier with 2" or under.  I don't know the reputation that '03's have for placing their bullets down range so I'm asking if anyone has experience with these old rifles please let me know what I might expect.  44 Man.

[Larry Gibson]

If the crown and bedding are good then, with quality commercial bullets (Hornady, Speer, Sierra) and quality loads it should still be capable of 2 moa or better.  I've had several dark bores with good rifling that shoot that wel or better. 

Are you sure it says 'A2?  The M1903A2 was a subcaliber device built on M1903 receivers for use in tanks.  The basic rifle designations were; M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3 and M1904A4.  The "M1903A1" was a model designation based on configuration and receivers were not so marked. 
 
Larry Gibson

[44 Man]

The receiver says 'M1903'.  The barrel has been polished, quite a good job of it too, and the only markings on it is a big 'A2' stamped crosswise about a third of the way down the barrel.  That's what I was going by.  Someone did a nice job on this gun, commercial safety, well polished and blued, nice ramp and bead front sight with a Williams open rear sight.  Of course drilled and tapped and an unknown brand scope (fine crosshairs) in Weaver rings.  I'm getting it from a friend who says his father bought it in the 50's and now he has no use for it.  To him it's just an 'old gun' and he has taken less that stellar care of it.  Most of it is just cosmetic with dings and scratches in the stock, nothing bad, just from normal use.  The metal work has been allowed to accumulate some minor spots from being put away wet sometime in it's past.  I hope I can take care of most of that with some oil and gentle polishing.   I'm thinking this is going to make a fun project and I love an old gun with 'character' and this has it in spades!  44 Man

[scratchmark]

if youll see my avatar. the gun is an m1903 sporterized as the one you speak of that i found in a pawn shop. All 3 deer and coyote were shot within 2hrs and at ranges from 20yrds to 200yrds with my handloads. the next morning my son shot his first deer with it(he's now claimed the gun as his). Mine is very accurate comparable to modern guns and i feel if i played eith loads a litlle that i could do even better. This gun is not going anywhere

[JPShelton]

I used to have quite an extensive collection of '03 Springfields -up to forty of them at one time.
 
I only had one Remington Model 1903.  It had been converted into a sporting rifle in the 1950's by George Matthews, a gunsmith operating out of a shop in Downey, CA.  I bought it for the barrled action, which sported an excellent commercial polish and blue.  It was fitted with a Redfield ramp front sight brazed to the barrel and a Redfield peep.  It also had a Timney trigger.  The stock was a hideous, Weatherby-esque thing.
 
I made a stock for it from flame maple -from scratch.  The barrel was free floated and the action was glass-bedded to the stock.
 
It had a two-groove barrel -supposedly not the best for accuracy.  It did not shoot boat-tailed bullets all that well, but I could get 1-1/2" to 2" groups with it with ease shooting flat-base bullets.  The load I used was one that I got from a pal who shot M-1 Garands in competition -except I used a flat based bullet instead of a boat-tailed MatchKing.
 
Most of the Springfields I owned were excellent iron-sight shooters.  I only owned a few that were scoped.  The only one that I shot much was a consistant 1 1/2" grouper with several different loads.
 
JP

[parkergunshop]

Ok,
I have worked on several 1903 Springfields with excellent results.
My personal one serial number 1404xxx made at Springfield Armory in 1932 with the original barrel.  Groups well under 1 inch with the loads it likes and under 1 1/2 inch with any load tested.   Examples  .592 inch 150 grain Hornady and H4895, .532 inch 130 grain Sierra and H380, .679 inch 165 grain Sierra and H380.
I recently installed a new 30-06 Remington two groove barrel dated 1/1944 on a High number Springfield receiver dated 1918 that I bought as a stripped receiver and added the other parts and a Bell and Carson stock.   The owner is averaging 5 to 6 tenths of an inch groups with multiple loads.
I have worked on several Springfields and have yet to have one that I restocked that would not shoot into less than 1 inch with when working up loads with a military barrel.
They are as accurate as any military rifle made and more accurate than most.   I have seen several with two groove barrels that would group under 1 inch on a constant basis.   .

[keith44]

sounds like someone tried to fake an A2 to up the price sometime in its history.  Either that or the barrel is an A2 barrel from something else.


http://tangoyankee.com/sold/10-07-09_03/10-07-09_03.html


I am not an expert on the 1903 rifles, but the above article says the receivers were marked A2, not the barrels


as to accuracy, I have witnessed 1,000 yard hits on 10" gongs, (along with misses until the range was dialed in) I have also seen several deer taken at 150 to 200 yards with enough '03's to not question the hunting accuracy of them, even in military trim they seem to hold 3" and less.

[AtlLaw]

Hey Lewis!  It has been many years since I was on my Springfield kick so I may be somewhat off here... But as I remember, if the receiver ring is marked Remington 1903 it was one of that company's first production rifles in late '41 or early '42.
 
Remington had bought (?) the old Rock Island Arsenal tooling and received a foreign (Australia?) contract for 1903 rifles.  They are fine receivers... 
 
Since your rifle has been sporterised I imagine the barrel has been cut down.  The barrel ID marks (year and ordinance stamp) are located behind the front sight so are probably gone.  If it is the original barrel they were also a good-uns but from your description who knows.      No biggie... 
 
Just check the bedding, crown and headspace, shoot it and see what you get.  It should shoot as well as any used sporter you pick up.
 
Years ago I bought a sporterised Springfield 1903 in the A-1 serial number range (just about the only difference in the high numbered 03's and the A-1 was the move to the pistol grip stock).  It shot 150 gr. bullets very well!   
 
I had the late Dick Nickle rebore and rechamber it and it is now my beloved 338-06! 

[44 Man]

Richard, good to hear from you, and thank the rest of you for your help.  I  have also been getting info from a couple friends that I shoot with.  This gun was made in December of 1941.  I was hoping it might be in 1946 and be born in the same year that I was, but I'll have to settle for 1941.  I took it to the range to shoot it Sunday, but it wouldn't fire.  When I got back and checked it over (I hesitate to do too much as the money has not changed hands yet) I found the safety housing/striker/fireing pin assy was screwed out of the bolt body one turn.  This kept the fireing pin from extended beyond the bolt face.  That is corrected now and I'm going to try to get back to the range soon (again). 
I did get a better look down the bore today.  It has the 4 grove barrel and not the 2, and it is quite pitted.  This does not mean it will not be a good shooter however.  And my friend Ed, says if it is not, it's reasonable to re-barrel it.  I asked how expensive a barrel would be and he said use a 'take off' that you can get for $35 to $75.  In fact he offered me a take off he has in .270 if it turns out I need it.  We have some gunsmiths near us that will cut it off, thread and re-chamber one for $100 to $150.  That won't be bad considering I'm buying the rifle for $150.    I'll try to get to the range soon and also get a couple pics of her.  I'm really getting pumped about getting this gun shooting.  44 Man

[AtlLaw]

Heck Lewis!  I'd pay $150 just for the action!!   
 
The Rem '03's aren't that common.  Mine was made in April of '42 and that was getting into the 03M period.  That also only lasted a bit before the 03A3 designation was granted.
 
I haven't looked in a long while but there used to be plenty of brand new in wrap 03A3 barrels around in the $50 price range.      Matter of fact, the gunshop in Marietta used to have a couple.  If I remember I'll give the owner a call and see if he still has any.  You should be able to screw one of those on yourself!   
 
Here's my 338-06 on an 03A1 barreled action, my Remington '03 and Remington 03A3.

[keith44]

Richard, good to hear from you, and thank the rest of you for your help.  I  have also been getting info from a couple friends that I shoot with.  This gun was made in December of 1941.  I was hoping it might be in 1946 and be born in the same year that I was, but I'll have to settle for 1941.  I took it to the range to shoot it Sunday, but it wouldn't fire.  When I got back and checked it over (I hesitate to do too much as the money has not changed hands yet) I found the safety housing/striker/fireing pin assy was screwed out of the bolt body one turn. Please have this rifle head space checked.  Turning it that far out and being able to close the bolt on a round is a red flag.


This kept the fireing pin from extended beyond the bolt face.  That is corrected now and I'm going to try to get back to the range soon (again). 
I did get a better look down the bore today.  It has the 4 grove barrel and not the 2, and it is quite pitted.  This does not mean it will not be a good shooter however.  And my friend Ed, says if it is not, it's reasonable to re-barrel it.  I asked how expensive a barrel would be and he said use a 'take off' that you can get for $35 to $75.  In fact he offered me a take off he has in .270 if it turns out I need it.  We have some gunsmiths near us that will cut it off, thread and re-chamber one for $100 to $150.  That won't be bad considering I'm buying the rifle for $150.    I'll try to get to the range soon and also get a couple pics of her.  I'm really getting pumped about getting this gun shooting.  44 Man

Other than my red flag, the action itself is a sound design, and re-barreling is always an option.

[44 Man]

Keith44, I thank you for your concern, but it was not a 'bolt' issue but simply the firing pin/safety/cocking piece was just not assembled properly.  These were built so they could be easily taken apart and cleaned.  It just screws out of the bolt body at the back to clean the assy and screws back in with a tab to lock it in when it get in place. And it simply was not screwed in where it locks and the firing pin simply did not extend out the bolt face.  Now corrected.  Thanks  44 Man

[keith44]

oops, sorry.  I was thinking of some other military action that screws out at the firing pin end.  (Mosin, or Enfield maybe) 


Good shootin'