FNed 358318's in the whelen

[jhalcott]

went to the range today .I wanted to test the fn's in my whelen by shooting into water jugs and see what the bullet looked like . Well 7 gallon jugs later no bullet!!? the 1st 3 jugs were shredded,the next 3 had slits in them. The last jug had a tiny slit near the bottom. All I could find was the gas check at the end of the 3rd jug.Okay! Lets try wet phone books.I soaked 20 inches of phone books in a plastic trash bag for 5 hours.Placed them on the table at 25 yards and shot a round at them. I got 19 inches of penetration ,a 3/4" hole with a large 2-3" wound channel for about 6-8". I then shot an unmodified RN 358318 at the bale. It went out the back,a full 20" of penetration. The wound channel was slightly smaller than the FN the exit hole was about 1/2" where the FN was about 3/4". The Fn weighed 245 as shot ,recovered 195 and the check was gone. The expanded dia was about .4. The Rn was less than 3 inches under the dirt about 8 feet behind the bale. It weighed 250 as shot and 116.7 recovered. The load is 44/varget/WLR.The book says it should be going 2000 to 2050.but the chrono is busted (bad WIRES).This load feels like it is faster than that though. by the way ,they shoot into 1 1/4 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards, the rn's do better!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Are you hardening the bullets after casting them?

2000 fps is pretty good for cast bullet.

I tried 40-some grains of BL-C(2) and Lyman's 358430 which weighs 195 grains in my Whelen.  It's pretty accurate, no gas check, and must be somewhere just under 2000fps.

I also tried that 280 grain paper-patched monster in wet newpaper.  I didn't measure the depth of penetration but it was somewhere near 20 inches.  The bullet was flattened and not much left. 

[jhalcott]

 they are cast from an  Air cooled alloy close to lyman#2 ,about 16 BHN( Lee hardness tester). Hornady Gc's.Felix lubed then lee liquid alox tumble lubed. I shot them into DRY phone books at 100 yds and got 7 to 8" of penetration with a big hole where the FN bullet stopped. The Rn is still to be found, it exited after about 9". I found the FN's gas check and about 130 grains of lead splinters. I was not getting decent accuracy till I over lubed with the LLA.I guess it made that long nose fat enough to align it to the bore better.I have been trying to get some big beef leg  bones to put into the wet paper . That should be a tough test .I plan to shoot some of these and some Linotype (same molds) to see if I can shatter the Linotype ones. What do you think ? will they shatter or just veer off course?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have no experience with linotype bullets.  For some reason in just about all my shooting I've always been trying to get softer lead.  I guess because I shoot a lot of .38 spl-type loads and have had leading problems because of blow-by.  Whenever I try for more power/velocity I just paper-patch.

So far, I've only patched for a .357 magnum shot in a lever action and my .35 Whelen.  Neither of these push the limits for paper-patch velocities.  The Whelen bullet I patch weighs 280 grains so the velocities are 2200 - 2400 fps.

I like bullets that mushroom.  My favorite targets are live game and water-filled containers.   

[jhalcott]

  I shot the whelen at 1, 150 and 200 yards. After sight ing at 100,I fired a group.It was less than 2".Then I fired a 5 shot group at 200. I was about 8" low and about 3.7" in size.Then I fired 5 at 150. It was ~6" low,and about the same size as at 200.The drop or lack of it surprised me! I thought it would be more. I shot the Rn's to compare .I got very similar results. I shot some clay birds on the berm at 100.Then tried to duplicate the groups. I started getting fliers at 200. I'm not syre if it was recoil getting to me or fouling in the bore. When I cleaned it I got a lot of black stuff that looked like charcoal. These bullets are lubed with felix wfl, and then tumble lubed in Lee liquid alox. With 2" groups at 100 and sub 4" at 200,i don't think I'll change.

[Gavinator]

 Just got around to reading this, on your first post you say your chronograph is O/S with bad wires, is it a CED Millenium?

[jhalcott]

  yes,why,can YOU get it fixed for me?

[Gavinator]

 I don't think it's the wires I think it's the plugs. CED said fedex it back, hasn't left yet.

[jhalcott]

  Gavinator,
 I just went out and bought a new Chrony, it was easier.than trying to box up yhe old one! I found out I was getting 1995 fps from the whelen and 250 grain bullets.

[Gavinator]

 I know what you mean, the time=money equasion. So which new chrono do you have?
 I was also wondering if you were getting more bore-ride when you bump the nose?
 I made the big investment and put batteries in the Pro-Chrono Digital (still have not sent CED back), I am still amazed with that newest of IMR powders, extreme spread of 6fps.

[jhalcott]

  I got the Beta model. I don't bump them flat, I chuck them in a battery powered drill .Then I circumcize them with my dremel tool with a cutting blade on it. It helps to keep the nose flat to the length. I get a slightly fatter nose by lubing them with Lee liquid Alox after lubing with Felix lube. I found out that this gun likes to be a bit dirty for best accuracy with these loads. I need to shoot 10-12 rounds after a thorough cleaning to get good groups again. ?? I'm still wondering about this! The last time out some guy got upset that I wouldn't let HIM shoot over my new Chrono.. I told him I would gladly test his loads,BUT I'D DO THE SHOOTING!!

[Gavinator]

 I figgerd you were just sizing with a flat nose top punch. I would never give up on the Lee L. Alox over the nose on the barrels I have but might consider only lubing one groove, and have you tried auto brake cleaner in your bore to remove other oils before shooting? Sometimes these things make it work, sometimes not.
 The one old-timer I actually got some good help from was very cynical, for a couple of people he saved a special retort, "Don't go away mad,,  just go away".

[jhalcott]

  I SCRUBBED THE BORE  several times to be certain it was clean. Then i shot an 8" group!!!! After about 10-12 shots the bullets were going into a 2" group???. Since I was heading to Maine for deer hunting the end of that week I just cleaned her and put her in the safe! When I got back, I scrubed her out and took her to the range. The first dozen shots looked like a 12 gauge double0 load. It spanned about 10" or so. The next series of shots were closer together as the number of shots increased. the last 2 five shot groups were ~ 2.125 and 2.0+ - .Measured with a steel tape, not a dial caliper or micrometer. I ran a brush in and out of the bore followed by a couple patches which came out black ! I Shot a 5 shot group that was around 2". Scrubbed the bore squeeky clean and shot a pattern!??
  I should have just tossed the gun in the case and took it to Maine!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Jh,

You've got a gun that shoots best when dirty?  I can understand your puzzlement.  I just hope you're not complaining!

10-12 shots too... That's really interesting.   Oftentimes I'll give up on a load if I dont' see good groups before 1/2 a box is shot up. 

I had a muzzle loader that would just get settled in at about 10 or 12 shots.  That was because I would load it with a big wad of tallow between the powder and ball.  Black Powder Cartridge shooters would refer to this as a grease cookie. Anyway, using a healthy hunk of deer tallow allowed me to reload without ever wiping 'tween shots.  The thing I learned was that it took about 10 shots to get real accurate.  The only reason I learned that though was because I wanted to see if the tallow chunk would allow for indefinite reloading of a muzzle loader.

Maybe using a different lube or amount would reduce the amount of shots needed?

[jhalcott]

  Hi BJ, I tried several lubes, NRA, Felix and some others. Then I tried just Lee liq alox alone. A friend said my bullets were not being supported in the chamber! So I had some lubed with FWFL(felix) and tumbled them with LLA. Groups shrank right away. I went back to just felix and shot 3 five shot groups that were twice the size as the FWFL/LLA  loads.

[jhalcott]

 Because I live about 15 miles from the range ,I usually load 3-4 five shot groups for testing. I take them to the range in plastic baggies with labels on the bags. When I get a bad grouping, SOME TIMES I pull the rest down when I get home. When I'm shooting cast ,I almost always use the rest for" trigger control" practice. That is how I noticed the gun SEEMS to like being dirty! The shots just fell closer to the aim point. SOO, I put a 2nd target up and shot a 2-2.25" group. I've done this a couple times with the same results. I would like to find a load that was as accurate from a clean barrel though.