Author Topic: Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...  (Read 1365 times)

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Offline Victor3

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Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« on: April 05, 2006, 06:25:39 PM »
Hi all - A new noob here...

 I've had a Topper Mod 58 12 ga for about 30 years, but never an H&R rifle.

 I was dissapointed to hear that they have eliminated ejection on center-fires now. I was planning on getting a 44 (Or 357 if I could find one), but don't care for "pick-out" break-opens.

 Some questions:

 Do the 22 mag and 17 hmr do a good job of ejecting the shell or do they stick?

 Are there any aftermarket walnut (Or other nice wood) stocks for the H&Rs (Maybe something that doesn't look quite so much like a rowboat oar)?

 Has anyone here shortened the bbl on a mag or hmr? If so, how did it work out?

 What I'd like to do is get one of these, make or buy a nice smallish straight-wristed stock and shorten the bbl to ~18". I'd do it with a 22lr model, but I've got a zillion 22lr rifles already. Looking for something with a little more punch in a small package...

TIA
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc....
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 11:35:08 AM »
Welcome to GBO!! :D  Eventually all NEF/H&R firearms will have extractors, all centerfire rifles do now, shotguns and rimfires supposedly will sooner or later. I've never had a problem with my Sportsters ejecting.

All NEF/H&R stocks will fit the Sportsters, take a look at the 2005 Retail Parts Price list in the NEF/H&R Centerfire forum FAQ and Help sticky, all stocks are listed. Choate Machine makes the synthetic stocks for NEF/H&R, the Varmint stock is available from them also in addition to the Survivor and standard synthetic stock.

Tim

http://www.riflestock.com/
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Victor3

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Extractors, etc....
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 05:17:10 PM »
Well that stinks (Extractors replacing ejectors). I think it's the most nifty feature of the gun. I guess I'll go down and buy one next week. I waited too long on the 357 and now they're gone, and I can't get any other new center-fires with ejectors either (boo-hoo). Someone must have popped themself in the eye with a shell or something.

Thanks for the info. If anyone has any info on shortened bbls, I'm all ears....
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline MSP Ret

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Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2006, 02:46:17 AM »
Victor3, are you saying that the factory does not have any .357 barrels left from the special run or that you cannot find a .357 Hnadi to buy? If you checked with the factory (customer service) and they are out of .357 barrels thats about it unless you can find a used one. If not, perhaps they may still have a .357 barrel left they can fit to your reciever, if they do then it will be an ejector barrel  :grin:  :yeah:  :agree:  :-D , not the new cheaper extractor barrel. My prediction still stands, in the future ejector barrels will be more in demand and have more value than the extractor barrels, expecially for hunters....<><.... :grin:

P.S. - can you believe the foolishness of an extractor fitted RIMFIRE barrel!!! :)  :oops:  :(
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline EVOC ONE

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Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2006, 08:00:35 AM »
MSP Ret:  I agree with you regarding extractor on rimfires.  It won't very user friendly when plinking.

EVOC ONE

Offline Victor3

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Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2006, 09:21:30 PM »
MSP Ret - Thanks. I was unaware that there was a special run of the 357 ejector bbls. I'll call to find out if there are any left. The gun shop I deal with seems to be willing to order anything from H&R that's available, so maybe I can order the exact gun I want if there are any bbls left to fit :lol:

I hope there is enough public outcry to nudge H&R to do some more special runs of ejector bbls, but I suspect that maybe H&R's lawyers are trying to head off any possible exposure to liability due to folks dinging their foreheads with flying brass (?)

I bought a "Cup-O-Soup" the other day that had "Be Careful! Contents will be hot!" printed on it in bold lettering. Praise the Lord for that - I would never have known of this great danger. Surprised they didn't tell me I could choke on it if I tried to eat it dry...
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Couger

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???????????
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2006, 11:19:34 PM »
Didn't see many comments on shortening bbls ......

But you may want to visit the Bullberry.com site.  

Fred on that site has experimented with the optimum barrel lengths for the .204 Ruger and .17 Hummer - starting at 22-24 inch bbls and measuring velocity over a chronograph every time an "inch" is chopped off.

The .17 HMR does well around 21 inches if memory serves.

Since the .22 Magnum case is what the .17 Hummer is based on, and the larger .224 diameter bullet will have a greater expansion ration than the Hummer, stands to reason a .22 WMR will give maximum velocities on a barrel shorter than 21" (18-20 inches perhaps?).

FYI, the .22 Short is supposed to give max performance with a 11-12 inch barrel.

The .22 Long Rifle gives optimum velocities with barrels 14-16 inches in length, depending on what ammo one chooses.  This is according to Mark White who owns Sound Technologies, and has done extensive research on this subject with the Ruger M10/22 and M77/22 rifles.  Mr. White builds silencers for a living.

But of course the NFA '34 law says a rifle barrel must be at least 16 inches long - 16 1/4 inches to be bureacratically safe with the ATF.

Offline Couger

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!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2006, 06:00:26 PM »
UPDATE.



Went to the BullBerry.com website to reacquaint myself with their .17 Hummer data.

19 inches is the optimum barrel lenth for the Hummer according to their tests, not the 21 inches I thought it was.  And surprisingly the 18-inch and 20-inch lengths were less than 25 fps slower.

The optimum length for the .204 Ruger is @23 inches.

Offline Victor3

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Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 07:52:38 PM »
Cool, thanks.

 If that's the case for the HMR, maybe I'll just leave it the standard length. I pick mine up next week...
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Couger

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 04:35:24 AM »
Victor3,

You've posted that you like to cut things on your lathe! ......


Why not cut an HMR barrel at 19 inches?  And a Long Rifle barrel at 16 1/4"?  I'd would consider cutting my LR barrels to 15 inches and even 14 inches if those were legal lengths, myself.

I'd probably cut a .17 M2 bbl to match the HMR length, not that I'd ever [seriously] want to own a .17 M2 (unless if I hunted squirrels back east somehwere and only made headshots, perhaps then I would  :wink: ).

The .22 WMR would find a place in my rack before an M2 however.

And if you don't mind saying V3 ......  What kind of lathe do you have?  Is is some kind of hobbyist model?  Or a big full-size one?

I'd like to get a hobby-lathe myself.

Offline Victor3

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Re: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2006, 06:06:31 PM »
Quote from: Couger
Victor3,

You've posted that you like to cut things on your lathe! ......


Why not cut an HMR barrel at 19 inches?  And a Long Rifle barrel at 16 1/4"?  I'd would consider cutting my LR barrels to 15 inches and even 14 inches if those were legal lengths, myself.

I'd probably cut a .17 M2 bbl to match the HMR length, not that I'd ever [seriously] want to own a .17 M2 (unless if I hunted squirrels back east somehwere and only made headshots, perhaps then I would  :wink: ).

The .22 WMR would find a place in my rack before an M2 however.

And if you don't mind saying V3 ......  What kind of lathe do you have?  Is is some kind of hobbyist model?  Or a big full-size one?

I'd like to get a hobby-lathe myself.


I may cut the .223 and 17HMR I just bought (Haven't picked up yet), but I think it may be wise to shoot them first. You never know - One of them might be the Holy Grail 1/4 MOA H&R as is (Or with only minor tweaks). If not, then I'll evaluate the benefits of shortening based on how they handle.

I do like short rifles, but the H&Rs (As many have noted) are already pretty short as is. Probably best not to go cutting without some thought and field/range testing first.

I have a full-size Lathe and mill (Clausing lathe, Bridgeport mill). I got spoiled working for 20 years as a machinist, and was able to get the machines fairly cheap. The lathe only cost me $500 through my old company when they bought out another machine shop. There are some good deals to be found on the larger machines if you look around, and they are far superior to the hobby machines if one can afford them and has the space. Some of the hobby machines are neat, but a bit limited as to the size of parts you can make on them.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Couger

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Thanks!
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2006, 10:07:30 PM »
Thanks for the tips on the lathes.   :D

Offline rangerruck

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Re: Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2006, 09:31:12 PM »
thos e two cals achieve their top speed with a 24 inch bbl. cutting of this many iches, from 22 will lose you about 50 to 100 fps, depending on how hot the round is.

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2006, 02:17:59 PM »
I cut 2 1/4 off my 22 mag, still shoots great, and it is well ballanced.  Larry

A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline myarmor

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Re: Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 02:45:15 AM »
Larry, you mentioned the balance of your project. Did you find the need to pack the rear buttstock with a filler to balance it out? I suppose if your front mounted scope is light weight, which it looks like it is, then there wouldn't be much problem seeing that you took off some weight from the barrel. The Handis have a good rep for thicker barrels.
Again I say nice job, I really like the looks of it.
-Aaron

Offline trotterlg

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Re: Shortening 22 mag / 17 hmr bbl, etc, etc...
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2006, 03:26:27 AM »
Nothing in the stock, it worked out just about right.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.