Author Topic: Rebarreling Stub Intructions (Read 1946 times)

Tentman · « **on:** July 20, 2006, 03:48:47 PM »

Hello Guys

I have finally taken the plunge and my first Handi is on its way, a .223 heavy barrel. Now I'm down here in NZ so sending it back to the factory for a .243 barrel isn't an option !! BUT I have stashed away an old SB2 barel stub from a 22-250 and a brand new savage 110 243 barrel.

Anyhow I was going to take this stuff to my local gunsmith and have him fit it up. Are there any special instructions or "tricks" I should put him onto.

One thing that will take a bit of sorting is the stub, the current hole (it has been previously "stubbed" and fitted with a barrel) is not centred. I imagine it should be pretty straight forward for any machinist worth his salt to re ream the hole back to straight, although I wonder if there is some reason why is in like it now (like for instance the lug not being square).

Anyhow any info appreciated

Cheers - Foster
Southland
New Zealand

trotterlg · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2006, 05:23:39 PM »

I guess I would chuck the stub up in a lathe and bore it straight using a boring bar, that would fix the off center part. I have considered doing something like this also. I think I would approch it like Savage does with their barrels, they thread them into the action and set the head space using a lock nut on the barrel against the action, should be easy to do I would think. I was also considering using a flat breach barrel like on a Savage, and just let the rim of the cartridge stick out of the breach for the extractor, without an extractor notch the head space could be set just by turning in the barrel to give a few thousanths space to the action face, the barrel/stub would seat to the frame on the stub barrel like a huntsman muzzel loader does. Let me know how it turns out, sounds like an excellent plan. Larry

Datil · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2006, 05:43:42 PM »

Hello Tentman welcome to the home of Handi-holics You be one soon.
Can not tell you any thing barrel stubing Good Luck,
Marv. From N.E. Texas

Awf Hand · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2006, 02:48:04 AM »

I've done the barrel stubbing, and to be honest with you, stubbing the barrel into a caliber that NEF already sells may cost you as much as buying another complete Handi-rifle. Unless your gunsmith is a friend and will work for very cheap, I'd consider buying a complete rifle.

I don't like it when someone tries to talk me out of a project that I really want to do, but if you've go out of center holes to true up before you can begin...boy oh boy does the cash flow quickly.

Your 'smith will have to true the hole, cut threads inside, cut tenons through the non-threaded portion, and true up the face of the stub to fit the barrel. That's on the stub.

Hopefully the Savage bbl threads aren't too large to be used in the stub and he won't have to turn down the OD and rethread. (I haven't looked at dims on the two) He will have to cut bbl tenons and an extractor slot. he will also have to cut a dovetail or something similar so you can mount up the forearm.

If you are going with the nut mount like the Savage models use, he'll need to cut out a portion of your forearm to accomodate that.

All that work adds up.

Let us know what you're doing and we'll need pictures!! Looks like you're new here. Welcome to the board!!

Tentman · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2006, 11:12:31 PM »

Hello Guys

Thanks for the welcome and thanks very much for your thoughts so far - several things to digest there.

Handi's are not common or cheap down here, I had to pay the equalivalent of US $230 for my used Handi (and I waited 6 months for one to come up), and I have never once seen a barrel set for sale here on our version of "Ebay".

Soo . . . thats why the rebarrel thing is being considered. I never thought of the savage barrel nut thing, the barrel I have has one , but there is no way the savage barrel shank at 1.055 is going to be able to be fitted the the stub. Maybe we could use the method though and make a special nut. I don't have a gunsmith friend, but I do have several fine machinists amoung friends, so if we used a barrel nut then headspace would be set by the nut and a true 'smith not required (none of the machinists I know particularly understand firearms). Hmmm I'll do some scheming on this, I do my own stockwork so the forearm etc isn't a problem.

I'll also look at bringing in a barrel from the US (assuming I can find someone willing to sell offshore) but that can be pretty nutty given the US Govts approach to firearms export post 9/11.

Cheers - Foster

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2006, 02:52:22 AM »

Tentman

I wish i could understand our { US Govermnent } fearing some nut with a single shot rifle . As we all know that every man in the middle east has an AK47 and chose to use car bombs yet we still export cars .

I wish that H&R would sell the barrels overseas , because they are fine rifles and would give us something that we could ship out to mach something we ship in.

As for your problem i have a friend that is a smith and lives just across the street so what every crazy idea i can come up with he can make for me .

stimpy

Awf Hand · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2006, 10:02:41 AM »

Don't mess with the nut or anything like that. You'll be tying up a lot of time into a fitting process that doesn't require it.

When you stub, make sure the OAL of your stub is about 1/8 of an inch less that the turned down length of your barrel. When you finish with all the thread cutting, thread the two together and the chamber end of the bbl should stick out beyond the back of the stub. Wipe some assbly blue on the face of the stub and put the bbl and stub in your lathe chuck, (future) chamber end out. Trim the bbl until you hit your blue, and take it out of the lathe and try it in your frame. Reapply assbly blue to the barrel portion and make sure you have a good fit.

After chambering, the extractor/ejector notch can be hand-filed if you don't have a mill.

NFG · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2006, 07:26:41 AM »

I've been thinking along the same lines as you all have. What are the ID dimensions of the stub wall and what thread are you using on the barre shank?. I have some extra Rem and Ruger barrels just waiting for a project and one .223 Handi- barrel and receiver that just won't shoot at all.

Thanks NFG

Tentman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2006, 10:41:33 AM »

Thanks Awf Hand, I hear what you are saying, I think you're quite right - Keep it simple.

I'm also thinking about both practical and safe barrel shank diameters. There is plenty of diameter over a .378-.380 cartridge like a 223 but no so much in the .473 family.

I know it is possible to "bulge chambers" on some small shank rifles e.g. Martini Cadets at .750 barrel shank, and althought the HEF is much better "supported" than a martini there must be a practical limit. My thoughts for the .473 cartridges would be to leave only enough wall in the shank to hold scope mount screws really well, say 0.10" to 0.12" . Any thoughts ??

Awf Hand · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2006, 10:24:13 AM »

I had cut 3/4"x 16tpi with a small tenon near the chamber end and a larger tenon on the other end. For the low pressure cartridge that I'm using, (32-40Win) I had no concerns about pressure. My wife's grandfather and I had done all the work and he had concerns when he saw how "little" steel was left after cutting the chamber. My response was, "you ever see a revolver cylinder?". Modern wheelguns are hardened to the max, but a 45 colt Army should be containing as much pressure or more as my 32-40 with only half the steel...
You're wanting to chamber in a higher intensity cartridge, so you'll want to leave the maximum amount of barrel steel there that you can. It seems like I had read about somebody doing a higher pressure cartridge stubbing project using 13/16" threading (don't recall the tpi). I believe that left enough stub wall thickness to allow the scope screws to grab. I think that the OD on the stub would be around 1.10, which would give just over 1/8" of support stub wall.
I was kind of wondering if you knew why the stub was cut off center and how far off center it is? Did somebody get clever and try to center the opening on the firing pin (which are almost all off-center by a bit)? Or was it so far off that you could put a rimfire bbl on it? Was there any method to the madness?

trotterlg · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2006, 05:40:10 PM »

Remember you aren't bound to any standard diameter, just make it as large as you can and have a little wall thickness to hold the barrel. Also cut fine threads in it and you will gain a lot of thickness, 28 TPI or even 32 would seem like a good plan, plus properly cut threads have a flat bottom and flat top, even though most you see cut have a sharp V shape on both the top and bottom, this will also gain you a little chamber and wall thickness. Larry

NFG · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2006, 06:32:50 PM »

I did some measuring on using a 223 Rem barrel as the possible donor. The barrel measured 1.115" at 3.4" from the chamber end, just before the taper began and the sight holes were 0.175" deep, #6 screw. I guessed the best thing to do was to leave the sight screw holes full depth, and possibly increase to #8, then bore out to 0.940" less the major dia of whatever thread I decided to use, 0.940" being the difference between 1.115 chamber dia minus the sight hole depth.

If I used a standard size case, 0.473" dia, that would leave 0.234" walls, minus the thread major dia. That would mean walls about 0.406" thick, counting the 0.175"

I also though about using a .284 case at 0.500" and would lessen the wall thickness by about 0.014".

I measured the walls on my 45-70 at 0.306" thick so I could even go to the WSM case and still be safe...I think. I'm not an engineer so calculating what the case and pressure would do to a barreled receiver with a threaded portion almost right in the middle is not in my milieu, but I think it would work.

I also though about threading the full length of the stub, 3.4" or whatever it ends up, less a very short shank about 0.025" or so, with a shouldered barrel of 1.115" dia to match the stub. Once the barrel was headspaced and witness marked and a flat milled on the bottom wide enough for a wrench, it would be just like any old switch barrel rifle.

It looks promising. I always had a 375/284 in the back of my mind, or maybe a 416/284?

Maybe the same calibers on a WSM case? That would leave walls about the same thickness as the 45-70 chamber.

Any comments about the threaded portion handling 52,000 psi plus or minus?

Thanks NFG

Awf Hand · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2006, 03:17:35 AM »

I can't comment on pressure specifics. More steel is better than less. I might be at the bench next to you, so I don't want to say it's safe when it isn't.
With regards to headspacing, don't think in terms of bolt-action rifles, they don't really apply. You make the barrel to fit the action, then cut your chamber until it's time to stop. You stop when you can chamber a cartridge or go-gauge, and close the action. You don't thread in and out to "set" headspacing. The barrel will thread into the stub until it stops at the front face of the stub. The "index mark", if you feel you need one, will be the extractor slot.
If you insist on using the nut like Savage does on their rifles, you won't be using it to set headspace. Instead, it will be used only as Loctite.

trotterlg · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2006, 03:33:26 AM »

Awf-Hand: Why would you not use the barrel nut method to head space the barrel, it works for Savage perfectly, and I have seen custom ones made for Remington barrels also. Larry

Awf Hand · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2006, 05:01:15 AM »

You don't use the nut or any other thread to determine headspace or bbl setback on a single shot rifle. Where does the back of the barrel end? At the action. The location of the breech face of the action, be it a falling block's block face, or in this instance, the face of the action where the firing pin comes out, is the "back" to which you FIX your setback. The barrel portion into which you'll cut your chamber must fit flushly against that. The chamber is not cut until you can close your action with the newly fit barrel in place. You don't need to cut the chamber in the naked barrel and then try to set it to the right place.

Perhaps QuickD2 can help me... If you've been following this thread, could you find/post a link to the "strange guy" project and pictures. (if possible on the new board) Maybe a visual will help these guys understand why threading in/out to "dial in" barrel setback is not only unecessary for one of these, but will eat up a lot of machine time with no real gain.
Thanks in advance.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2006, 05:12:33 AM »

Here ya go...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,67345.msg409971.html#msg409971

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,75549.msg465748.html#msg465748

Awf Hand · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2006, 05:46:50 AM »

That's the one!!

Thanks QuickD!!!

The second link shows the photos and if you see the non blued part projecting through the stub, THAT is the face you're concerned about when you set a barrel on a single shot. You cut your chamber relative to that face.

Now that I've had the whole rifle blued, it doesn't show up as well in a photo.

NFG · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2006, 07:30:14 AM »

Yeah, Tim. Thanks for the pics. They helped the visualization.

For what it's worth, I check the 'net for metal properties and came up with about 70 KSI as the point where the case brass gets killed forever. Probably why Weatherby stops at 65 KSI. And, 4130 steel ranges from about 80 KSI to 200+ KSI depending on whether it is in compression, tensile, or shear. All three ARE happening at the same time when you squeeze that start thingy.

I used a simple formula for the volume of a cylinder 0.550 x 2.2" (WSM case) for the volume of the case and 1.0" x 2.2 - (volume of the shell case) as the volume of the receiver and Lateral Surface Area, 2 x pi x r x h, as the area of both cylinders. Rough numbers, but it indicated that staying below 54 KSI would be safe and very effective. The receiver has almost three times the area of the chamber and three times the KSI properties.

Now I think a 375 or 416 WSM on a NEF would work. 2600 f/s with a 28" barrel. Very nice to swap out my 45-90 barrel if I wanted a bit flatter traj and more range.

Now to get the lathe tuned up and the tailstock dialed in to a lot better than "goodnuf".

Are there anymore pics/post on this subject, Tim, that you can aim me at?

Thanks NFG

Tentman · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2006, 10:58:52 AM »

Thanks Guys for such interesting and useful info.

NFG there is a slight error in your calcs for the dimensions of the stub (don't ask how I know - I made the same mistake !!). As built Handi barrel shank is about 1.115 minus .175 for scope mount screw hole is indeed .940, however you have to deduct a further .175 for the other side of the shank (ie figure the diameters) , which leaves .765 for the "new inner shank" less .473 for the chamber gives .146 for each chamber wall.

Thats a bit lighter than I'd like, which is why I'd still go for a minimum thickness outer shank remainder of about .10. That gives a inner barrel shank of .915. Thats a bit more than an orginal Stevens 44 1/2 and a bit less than a Highwall. The modern Stevens replicas have a slightly thicker shank because the early ones gave trouble with .473 base cartridges I believe. (Sorry I don't recall the exact shank diameters for the Stevens, but I know the Highwall is .935)

Cheers - Foster

NFG · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2006, 04:27:43 PM »

Oh, man, is my face red. What's that I keep telling the apprentices when they'er boring a hole..."Remember the other side comes around too". Thanks for the WAKE UP Mr DumbJohn.....

I called up my local metal merchant and had him cut me 2 feet each of 1" and 1 1/8" 4140 HR to practice on.

I think any modern Chrom-Moly or SS barrel has plenty of tensil strength to handle the pressures. Using a 284 case reduces those wall numbers to 0.1325", but you still have to include the receiver stub wall thickness. That is why I think threading the full length of the barrel shank and the stub receiver is the better method. The two pieces are basically mechanically coupled and the pressures are conducted through the threads.

The wall could be considered to be 0.175" + 0.1325" = approx 0.3075" thick total, with a lateral area of roughly 2 x pi x .5 x 2.2 = 6.91 sq in and 2.125 cu in of volume. That roughs out to being able to handle about 425,000 lbs through the metal. The lateral area of the case is about 3.456" sq in, so if you consider the case pressure as 52 KSI, then the total pressure on that volume is 180,000 lbs. It should handle it. My physics and math start breaking down just about now.

I'm just doing a rough guess here, would some engineer run a finite stress analysis on this project...PLEASE, using a receiver of 1.115" dia and effective length of 2.2", chamber 0.500" dia x 2.2" long.

All this calculating aside, the stub dia is only 0.060" larger than a savage barrel at the threads. It's definitely getting on the thin side.

If I get this done I will definitely tie the rifle to a tree, put a string through the trigger guard, then back off about 50 yd behind another BIG tree before I yank the lanyard.

Enjoy NFG.

nomosendero · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2006, 05:07:41 PM »

Quote from: NFG on July 27, 2006, 04:27:43 PM

Oh, man, is my face red. What's that I keep telling the apprentices when they'er boring a hole..."Remember the other side comes around too". Thanks for the WAKE UP Mr DumbJohn.....

I called up my local metal merchant and had him cut me 2 feet each of 1" and 1 1/8" 4140 HR to practice on.

I think any modern Chrom-Moly or SS barrel has plenty of tensil strength to handle the pressures. Using a 284 case reduces those wall numbers to 0.1325", but you still have to include the receiver stub wall thickness. That is why I think threading the full length of the barrel shank and the stub receiver is the better method. The two pieces are basically mechanically coupled and the pressures are conducted through the threads.

The wall could be considered to be 0.175" + 0.1325" = approx 0.3075" thick total, with a lateral area of roughly 2 x pi x .5 x 2.2 = 6.91 sq in and 2.125 cu in of volume. That roughs out to being able to handle about 425,000 lbs through the metal. The lateral area of the case is about 3.456" sq in, so if you consider the case pressure as 52 KSI, then the total pressure on that volume is 180,000 lbs. It should handle it. My physics and math start breaking down just about now.

I'm just doing a rough guess here, would some engineer run a finite stress analysis on this project...PLEASE, using a receiver of 1.115" dia and effective length of 2.2", chamber 0.500" dia x 2.2" long.

All this calculating aside, the stub dia is only 0.060" larger than a savage barrel at the threads. It's definitely getting on the thin side.

If I get this done I will definitely tie the rifle to a tree, put a string through the trigger guard, then back off about 50 yd behind another BIG tree before I yank the lanyard.

Enjoy NFG.

If you think your face is red now, wait until you touch off the 375WSM in a Handi !

I have been informed of one shooter who built a 300WM Handi, & the frame stretched in 10 rounds.

I would hate to see you build a stub & draw back a stub. Please tell someone about this forum so that they can inform us of the results if you can't. But, at any rate have fun.

Awf Hand · « **Reply #21 on:** July 28, 2006, 02:40:22 AM »

"The two pieces are basically mechanically coupled and the pressures are conducted through the threads."

If you're counting on the threaded portion to act as a support for those stresses, my guess is that you would ring your chamber. Threads are not designed to take stress in that direction. To my knowledge, they don't make 100% contact with a jam-fit acting as a support for chamber pressure.

I'm sure happy with my 32-40Win and recommend anybody try the same project. This good-ole round is a great complement to my Handi-rifle and the boys at Schuetzen take on a why-dint-I-thinka-dat look when I drag it out and they see how well it shoots (range report within the next 2 months).

BUT, I'm not sure that I can further assist you in your endeavors. All this talk of "should be able to handle" and "how thin can you make the chamber walls?" -nobody mentioned that the threading of the bbl takes the effective support OD down to the bottom of the thread cut. -I.E. 3/4" threads don't have usefull pressure support at .750", it's more like .680". Different dia. threads will have a similarly proportionate reduction in useful pressure support dia.

You may want to look to a different action for your experimentation.

What Nomosendero said...I'm outta here.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 28, 2006, 05:30:28 AM »

Quote

I would hate to see you build a stub & draw back a stub

How true this statement is...The Handi's are great little rifles..that they were never designed to handle some of the larger magnum cartridges.The flex in the action precludes this....and as others have found out..the frames will stretch.While I like to read of someone attempting this..an advisory word of caution is needed...So...please be carefull...and do let us know how your endevors turn out..

Mac

NFG · « **Reply #23 on:** July 28, 2006, 06:47:34 AM »

Thank you all for the input. As usual, I jump in feet first and start chasing the fish. Any type of experimentation is fraught with dark alleys and fearfull places. I took all the information that has been presented fully and completely and have decided to fall back and regroup.

The Handi is a great little tool but it's design didn't include wildeyed experimenters with snakes on the brain. That 45-70 BC just has me all haired out and bully. Maybe something along the lines of a WSSM case would be more appropriate, in a 6mm or 25 cal. Or, I always wanted a 24", 17 Mach IV walk-around. Da**, I gotta loose some of this testosterone.....and stay off the 'net!!!! I blame it all on Tim. He's a devil and whispers in your ear.

While I was chasing last night I found a site, Precision Rifleworks, http://www.precisionrifleworks.net/contact_us.html, that does this type of work. Maybe that would be the way to go and just get the 38-55 barrel ordered and call it good.

Problem is, I have too many bolt recievers lying around with tags listing the possibilities and I'm bored with bolts. So, I get started into something new, like black powder and big bullets, and start loosing all reason.

Sometime very soon I will be renting a 45-90 reamer to go after my BC. I found there are at least 3 different ones available, 45-90 Win, 45-90 C-Sharps and 45-90 Sharps, each with different leads, case lengths and freebores. More decisions.

Anyway...Thanks again for all the information, everyone, and...

Enjoy NFG

Mac11700 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2006, 09:24:33 AM »

NFG:

While the short mag cases looks promising...and are a wildcatters dream..to make them truely viable would mean pushing the pressures they were designed for...and with the case head diameters of the Jeffery case..I am afraid it would be too much for our Handi's frame.I've discussed this type of project with numerous top-notch gun makers,looking at many different possibilities with most of the exisiting barrels NEF offers..and while it is a possibility to chamber for one for a short mag wildcat..the likelyhood of expending a great deal of time and money for a rifle that may-or-may not fail isn't worth the risk to me..The 45-90 is certainly a good project...also...for nostalga's sake look to Quicks 405 Winchester....For me...if I wanted to go after something shooting black...I would opt for one of the true 44 calibers of that bygone era...and certainly a doable project as well...but this will down the road...I'm going to have a 26" 270 Wichester done first...and then we'll see what will our nest project...

FWIW...as soon as the search feature is re-enabled..do a search for what I have gotten from my 338-06 A-square.This was a converted 25-06 barrel...I think you might like it...I and Quick love ours...and getting magnum performance with it is very do-able...without worrying about stretching the frame...and a whole lot cheaper too..

Good Luck

Mac

NFG · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2006, 02:30:05 PM »

Right on Mac. That's the problem with a CatManDoo, I'm always looking at it from a "I can Catt-it...that thang". Now that I know where to have my barrels rechambered and rebored I will stay away from that stubbing mine field thing. I think the threading aspect was where the problems reared their ugly heads.

If the unaltered Handi frame and barrel will stand the pressure of a 25-06 at 63,000 psi or about 53,000 CUP, it will stand any other rechamber/rebore at those pressures as long as the walls don't get too much thinner.

I have a 338-06 I had built about 30 years ago. It was throated for a 270 gr 338 bullet that is no longer produced, that was at least 6 foot long if it was an inch. The bullets and the maker are long gone. Now I use Hornady 225 that put 5 into a quarter all day, with 57 gr IMR 4320. I've had more Catt's than standard's over the years.

What do you think of using the 284 case as a basis for developing a few good barrels?

Standard pressure is 56,000 psi and with the short case only 0.022" fatter than the standards, it shouldn't present any problems as long as the pressures are kept at what the other 308 size cases produce from factory loads.

I want a 6mm-284 again and the 243 Win barrel can be taken out without any problem. The 284 reamer will clean up the 243 chamber nicely. The same goes for the 22-243. Any one of the 22-250 barrels can be taken out to 22-243 and cleaned up without a problem. I used up two barrels of each of the two Catt's and was getting over 4000 f/s with Nosler 50 grainers in the 22-243 at about 50 KSI. Cases just fell out of the chamber and 100 cases out lasted both barrels.

I really need to put these Handi's in a dark corner where I can't see them, then finish the 45-70 project.

At least the forend shipped today, I got the Limbsaver installed, and I will get the recoil reducer ordered in the next week or so. By next week I should have a 12 lb rifle to play with. It isn't bad
standing up testing loads but now I need to get on the bench and 3 extra pounds will help the slap.

Yesterday, I loaded one case 10 times with a 350 gr Hornady RN and 57 gr RL7, average velocity was 2275, to see how the case would hold up. It didn't do too bad but it was ready to loose it's head for sure. 5 reloads is my limit on anything 7mm and above. The case was trimmed each time and total amount trimmed was 0.050", 0.005" per reload. Way too much sizing and trimming.

Today, I polished the Lyman sizer out to fit the chamber closer. The sizer was doing too good a job. This combo is one of those wrong way deals, chamber way too large and sizer way too small. Originally the sizer was squeezing down to 0.501" and the chamber is 0.5065", SAMMI is 0.504" or 0.505". I polished it out to 0.504" and can live with that for a while. On the open end the difference is 0.010". Once I get a good load and a box loaded up I will send it into Lyman to see if they can/will polish it out a little more. Or find another sizer closer to chamber size. I should whine to NEF about the oversize chamber but I might get a replacement even worse.

Enough jaw flapping...Enjoy NFG.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 28, 2006, 04:40:44 PM »

NFG:

You will run into all kinds of problems with the 284 case since it is a true rebated rim..with ejector barrels...and especially with the extractor barrels.The older ejector barrels have a fair amount of play in them..and some are even ride down far enough to cycle the 284 cases..but..on closing is where you will start having fits...On the extractor barrels I own currently..none have near enough verticle play in them,to allow the 284's case to pass over it...and still extract the case...On mine..it's a snap fit...and I have a audble click as the case slides into place correctly..Yours may differ...but...this is how mine are...Here's the spec's to the 284 Win..in case you want to see it again..and for those who haven't as yet...

I've given several wildcats built on this case much consideration...cause it seems a likely case to go to...but..again...talking with as many rifle builders who have actual hands on experiance with the Handi's as I have in the past few years..all have declined working with the cartridge in a Hand conversioni...and those that would...wouldn't warrenty the conversion to work...and those guys I won't ever have them touch any of my rifles..if you know what I mean...Otherwise...I think there are several cartridges I could have built using the case..Same for the Remingtons SAUM's...but..again...your dealing with a somewhat flexable action..and it'd not a machined reciever as either you know...There are( 2) 7mm WC's that can work...1 of them is built by Wayne York...it's called a 280 Improved-improved...which is a blown out 280 case that can be done in a rebored/rechamberd 25-06...the other is a 7mm JRS...both..will give near enough velocity increases to call it even-stevens with a 7mm Mag..with a 26" barrel of-course....

Then....there the old saying being banterd about by many.." If you want more than a Handi can handle...get a bigger gun" ...while true for the most part with many wildcats...however...if you stay well within the rifles limitations...I think you will find all kinds of conversions you can accomplish and be tottaly functionable and most of all unique to own......Ya know... they might not be the fastest,nor the most glamorus...but then....niether is the Handi in this regard to a-lot of folks who have never owned or shot a good one...and that is ok-fine by me...cause the proof is in the shooting of them...and when you can get sub-1/4 groups with factory loads in a 06'...as I have and others here on this forum in many of the standard calibers...this is what all us Handi-holics rave about These rifles can be made to shoot that good...all it takes is patince,perserverance,good loading/shooting techniques,a darn good gunsmith,and a little luck...

....and best of all is the look on those shooting near you when you walk down to the target...well...it's priceless

Have a Great 1

Mac