Author Topic: Need suggestions for new pistol  (Read 1013 times)

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Offline Guinness

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Need suggestions for new pistol
« on: August 10, 2006, 08:35:33 PM »
Hello,

My dad is coming out next month and he wants to pick up a new pistol for self defense.  He currently likes Ruger and Springfield but is open to suggestions.  Preferences include 9mm or .380, hi cap mag, and possible concealed carry, he also wants stainless steel or something that will not corrode in a coastal area.  He lives in Florida so if anyone knows of any peculiar laws please let me know.  He needs something that is easy to shoot and reliable.

Thanks for the help.

Offline PaulS

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 09:31:48 PM »
Guinness,
May I remind you that most of the police forces across the USA have decided that the 9mm is not a capable firearm when it comes to stopping a man even if he is not wearing body armor? The most reliable auto loading pistol when it comes to stopping a man is the 45ACP. The 40 S&W is a good choice when a smaller gun is wanted and a larger magazine is preferred. Both are designed to stop a man - with or without body armor. The do that job admirably.
The 380 shoots a 100 grain bullet at 950 fps which is fast enough to penetrate but is so light that it does little damage to stop a determined attacker. The 9mm is equal to the 38+p in all loadings but only because of its higher working pressures. The 38 special was used for years after its introduction by police across the country although it was under-powered and anemic when compared to the guns that the police were defending themselves against. These two rounds - the 38 and 9mm are best suited to low powered games and target competitions in my opinion.

If your dad can shoot the 40 S&W or the 45 ACP he would be in much better condition should the need to defend himself ever arise. Unless he has a FFL I don't think he can buy a handgun out of his State of residence - I am sure somebody will correct me if need be.

To those who use the 9mm and 380 as your carry guns. I have no doubt that in your hands and with proper shot placement these guns are as lethal as any other. I just doubt that most can place that first shot where it needs to be. I should not have called the calibers names but the staements are true to the best of my understanding. Personally I think the 45 ACP and 40S&W are under-powered which is why I carry a 357 Magnum. I also think that revolvers are more dependable than auto-loaders. (They always have been in my experience)
PaulS

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Offline Savage

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2006, 02:04:01 AM »
Guinness,
I won't try to sway your father's choice of calibers for CCW, other than to say: Carry the most effective caliber that you can handle, AND, will actually carry on your person. There is little advantage to carrying a .380 over a 9mm as the pistols chambered for the 9mm are pretty much the same size. A Glock 26 or 19 would be a good choice for carry in a hot, humid environment such as Florida. The tennifer finish is as durrable and rust resistant as stainless. A stainless XD compact-----(not very) might be another option. The Ruger 9mms are way to big and blocky for the caliber. If he goes with a Ruger, he might as well go with the .40 or .45 as the Ruger pistols are pretty much the same size in all three chamberings.
Savage
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Offline Guinness

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2006, 05:42:52 AM »
He has arthritis pretty bad and he was worried about the larger calibers.  I will talk to him about a 40 or 357sig.  He also wants my mom to be able to handle it if needed.  Thanks for the replies.

Offline 35Rem

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2006, 07:10:20 AM »
PaulS is correct in that he can not purchase a handgun out of state.  He would have to have it transfered from dealer to a local dealer where he can pick it up in FL.
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Offline Savage

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2006, 07:10:43 AM »
The .40 has pretty snappy recoil. Perhaps a 9mm or .45 would be a better choice.
Savage
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Offline Questor

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2006, 08:56:00 AM »
If he's not used to shooting much and has arthritis, a full size 9mm is probably a good choice because it's got the weight to tame the recoil, and is big enough to handle with loss of manual dexterity. That's what I'd pick for myself if I were in his shoes.
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Offline Patriot_1776

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2006, 03:42:01 PM »
Guinness, don't overlook Sig Sauer's P229.  It is a little larger than a compact auto, but can still suffice as a carry gun if need be.  It offers 13rd capacity in 9mm, and 12rd capacity in 40 S&W or .357 Sig.  I'll put the link below so you can have a look.  They all have rails, except for the SAS pistol, but the SAS only comes in 40 S&W.  I've had experience with several Sig pistols (P220, P226, and P239 to be exact).  All I can say about them is that they are very reliable, accurate enough for most uses, and darn well made.  

Sig P229
-Patriot

Offline PaulS

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2006, 05:02:17 PM »
Recoil from the 45ACP is about as tame as it comes. he shouldn't have any problem with that and either should his wife - with a little practice they will be "shooting in the black"
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
Alway check loads you find on the internet against manuals.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2006, 01:17:07 AM »
This is opinion!!
A .45 does not recoil as sharply as a .40
The .357sig is a snappy recoil but not as heavy as a .40 or a .45
The 9mm is a fun shooter and accurate-I have never trusted it.
The .38 is as the 9mm though I carry one often.
The super .38 is a very good round and a good/easy shooter.
The ballistics of a .357sig and a super .38 goes to the 357sig but not by much.
The 9x23, which has not been discussed, is the best of all and is a better/easier shooter than all except the 9mm.

A .45 has a heavier punch.
A 9mm is just fast.

BUY one of each and cut to the chase.
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Offline azmike

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2006, 10:39:39 PM »
Guinness,
May I remind you that most of the police forces across the USA have decided that the 9mm is not a capable firearm when it comes to stopping a man even if he is not wearing body armor? The most reliable auto loading pistol when it comes to stopping a man is the 45ACP. The 40 S&W is a good choice when a smaller gun is wanted and a larger magazine is preferred. Both are designed to stop a man - with or without body armor. The do that job admirably.
 

I don't want to start anything, but I can tell you that the body armor I am currently wearing is rated to stop up to .44 magnum point blank, so I'm confident that .40 and .45 autos won't penetrate (though I'm quite sure they'll bruise REALLY bad). 

As far as shooting a .40 goes, in a lightweight pistol it can be uncomfortable, but in a full size it is quite manageable.  The trouble with a full size auto for CCW, especially in hot climates, is they are uncomfortable to carry for many people.  I'd rather have a 9mm or .380 on me, than the .40 or .45acp sitting at home when I need it.  I prefer the .45, .40, or better yet, .357 mag for defense, but a quality compact 9mm that I will practice with and carry gets the nod over all else, simply because I may be tempted to not practice with a harder kicking gun, or not carry a heavier one.  Good luck with your (and your Father's) decision.

Offline kansas45

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2006, 03:18:00 AM »
After hearing about your father's need's I would recomend the Ruger P89DC. They ar very reliable and acurate. They are a bit heavy & large but it help's cut down on recoil. Mine has been wet numerous time's with out any sign of rust. I do keep it clean & oiled. After a wet outing I do a through cleaning. I don't live in a saltwater enviorment, but I'm sure the gun will be fine. :) This is a great forum & I have picked up some good advice &tip's from it's many fine member's. ;) 8)
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Offline WNY_Whitetailer

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2006, 07:04:56 AM »
don't want to start anything, but I can tell you that the body armor I am currently wearing is rated to stop up to .44 magnum point blank, so I'm confident that .40 and .45 autos won't penetrate (though I'm quite sure they'll bruise REALLY bad).

I was going to say the same thing...My body armor will handle the 40 and 45 rounds as well....
Patience comes with age and You can't teach common sense

Offline Guinness

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2006, 04:17:50 PM »
Thanks for the input we will look into it. 


Offline Sir Knight

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2006, 04:18:40 PM »
Having lived in southern Florida for several years, I can tell you from personal experience that your father is going to need a compact size firearm. Otherwise, as was already pointed out, if the gun is to big, he's not going to be carrying it much and might end up not having it when he might need it.

While a .380ACP would not be my first choice as a defensive caliber, given the fact that your father has arthritis, I can understand the need for a low recoil caliber. I would recommend the Browning BDA380 (pictured below on the right) ...



... It is larger than a pocket gun and fourteen rounds of .380ACP is nothing to sneeze at especially if he puts the rounds where they need to go. In 9mm, I would recommend the Smith & Wesson 3913TSW (pictured above left). It's about the same size as the Browning but in a single stack 9mm.

May I remind you that most of the police forces across the USA have decided that the 9mm is not a capable firearm when it comes to stopping a man even if he is not wearing body armor? The most reliable auto loading pistol when it comes to stopping a man is the 45ACP. The 40 S&W is a good choice when a smaller gun is wanted and a larger magazine is preferred. Both are designed to stop a man - with or without body armor. The do that job admirably.
The 380 shoots a 100 grain bullet at 950 fps which is fast enough to penetrate but is so light that it does little damage to stop a determined attacker. The 9mm is equal to the 38+p in all loadings but only because of its higher working pressures. The 38 special was used for years after its introduction by police across the country although it was under-powered and anemic when compared to the guns that the police were defending themselves against. These two rounds - the 38 and 9mm are best suited to low powered games and target competitions in my opinion.

To parapharse Todd Green, the average 9mm load probably isn't as effective as a defensive round as the average .40S&W  or .45ACP round. However, when you start to look at the best loads in each caliber, you begin to see that they're almost identical in terminal performance (ability to penetrate, expand, and otherwise wound a violent threat).



As you can see, the 9mm versions of most "premium" loads are very close and sometimes superior to the .40S&W and .45ACP versions. It's all about bullet design, not bullet weight or velocity. If it penetrates the same, expands the same, and disrupts tissue the same, the end result will be the same.
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Offline RollTide

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2006, 12:34:50 PM »
Here is an interesting article on guns and seniors that may prove helpful.

http://thearmedcitizen.com/seniors/

Roll Tide


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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2006, 04:51:24 AM »
Hmmm, arthritis, sounds tailor made for a revolver.  No slide to rack.  Probably won't be shooting too much.  No complicated safeties, slide-releases etc.  Just aim and pull the trigger.  Get a 7 or 8 shooter and stoke it with mid-range .357 loads.  Shotgun for in the  house, and a revolver for car/carry.

ngh
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Offline jerkface11

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Re: Need suggestions for new pistol
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2006, 10:03:04 AM »
CZ75 or one of it's clones. Like an EAA witness. Or a baby eagle.