Model 99 Savage's age

[Ron T.]

I'd really appreciate it if someone can tell me the year of manufacture of Savage Model 99, Serial #709XXX ?

Thank you in advance,

Ron T.

[jhm]

Ron T.:  1951 or later per: Savage.   JIM

[Dutch4122]

Ron T -

I posted the same question on a Savage Collectors forum last summer when I bought my Savage '99 that was in the 700,000 serial number range.  Apparently after WWII Savage no longer numbered their rifles as they had before.  I was told that in order to nail down the exact year that the rifle was made one has to check a particular stamping on what I believe they referred to as the lever "boss."  It is the lower part of the receiver just forward of where the lever is attached to the receiver.  Just turn the rifle upside down and look for the stamping with a small flashlight; some of them are lightly stamped (like mine) but you can see it with the flashlight.  The stamping will be a "99" and a letter surrounded by a circle.  Example:  "99G" or "99F";  I was told that this system was started after WWII either in 1948 or 1949 and each year was a different letter starting with "A" in either '48 or '49.  I was able to determine that my "99G" was made in either 1954 or 1955.

If any of you more knowledgeable Savage collectors know this advice to be false then please correct me on this; like I said, I was told this on another forum.

Anyway, I hope this helps!

[Ron T.]

WOW!!!  I "owe" ya, Dutch (Is it "Matt"?)!

You're right, there was a practically unnoticeable little circle on the rifle's "lever boss".  The "99" was so faint it did NOT even "show", but there was a distingushable letter stamped against the right side of the inside of the circle.  From the position of the letter, it was obvious that SOMETHING had been stamped in front of the letter.  Therefore, it appears your information is correct.  I just wish I knew whether this "system" was started in 1948 or 1949, then I could get the "exact" year my rifle was manufactured.

I can't believe how accurate my Model 99 is!!!  If someone had told me any "lever-action" rifle could shoot as accurately as mine does, I wouldn't have believed them!

I do lot of bench-rest shooting for my own gratification (not in competition) and even though my Model 99 has a lousy trigger (creepy, grindy and about 7 lbs.), the rifle is amazingly accurate for a rifle with a "sporter-weight" 24-inch barrel.  Are all Model 99's unusually accurate???  I've been around guns for more than 40 years, and I have never heard that this particular model of rifle "noted" for it's accuracy, but mine sure is a "shooter"!!!

I'd have the trigger "worked on" if I felt "comfortable" with any of the gunsmiths in the area where I live, but... I don't know any of them that I'd trust with the rifle.   And... I absolutely REFUSE to ship it anywhere for fear it would be damaged or stolen, so I'm stuck with the trigger.  But that's ok... the rifle shoots quite accurately, but it takes a lot of concentration to make that happen.  However, in a hunting scenario, who worries about having a 2 lb. trigger?  Hahahahaha....

Using 41.5 grains of IMR4895 (the "maximum" listed load) behind a Nosler Ballistic Tip, boat-tailed 150 grain bullet in  Winchester cartridge cases ignited by  standard Winchester large rifle primers, I have fired a good many 3-shot groups off the bench rest.  The groups have averaged .75-inches (3/4 of an inch) measuring the bullet holes "center-to-center".  The best group with this load measured a mere .3125-inches (5/16ths of an inch).  All groups were fired at 100 yards off a solid concete bench rest using a 3x-9x Bushnell variable scope set on "9x", a heavy, cast-aluminum Hoppes rifle rest and 4 sandbags.

While I was "working up" my hunting load (41.5 grains/IMR4895 giving an average chronographed muzzle velocity of 2664 fps), I got a 3-shot group that measured an unbelievable .1875-inches (3/16ths of an inch) using 41.0 grains of IMR4895.  With 41.2 grains, the 3-shot group measured just .375 inches or 3/8ths of an inch... so I "know" I'm in the "sweet spot" for this powder/bullet/case/primer/bullet-seating depth combination.  This load may NOT be "safe" in your rifle.  You should work up slowly and carefully to determine the maximum safe load in your individual rifle.

In their latest Reloading Manual, Lyman indicates that 42.0 grains of Hodgdon's Varget rifle powder achieved a muzzle velocity of 2740 fps using a 150 grain bullet with a chamber pressure of only 43,000 C.U.P.  (SAAMI average pressure = 46,000 C.U.P.) and was Lyman's suggested "accuracy load".  WOW... whatta combination... 80 fps faster than my best load of IMR4895 and the suggested "accuracy load" too!!!  How can ya beat THAT?!?  Just a few nights ago, I loaded up 33 rounds (11 different loads @ 3 rounds each for determining "group" sizes) of Varget... I'm going to find out if the Varget powder will give the high velocity numbers and the fine accuracy as well.  This load may NOT be safe in another rifle.  Naturally, one must work up the loads to maximum pressure very carefully, checking for all pressure signs constantly.  

Naturally, I used all the "accuracy tricks" to modify the twice-fired Winchester cartridge cases.  I do all the "accuracy tricks" to every one of my cartridge cases... it takes a little time, but by doing everything I can to make the cases give me their maximum accuracy (aka "consistency"), any deviation from maximum accurate has to be caused by the shooter ("me" in this case) or the rifle.  However, the extra effort shows up in the size of the groups one gets.

My heavy barreled Sako in .222 Remington has given me a 5 shot group @ 100 yards as small as .086-inches... yep, that's right... LESS than 1/10th of an inch!!!  In fact, while shooting THAT particular "group", the first four bullets went into the SAME .224" hole!  Unfortunately, I am the one who goofed up "THE PERFECT GROUP" which is, of course, five shots through the SAME, bullet-diameter-sized hole!  This particular group had a maximum outside measurement of .31 inches.  By substracting the bullet diameter used in shooting the group (.224" in this case), the size of the group is very easy to determine.  When you get into very, very small groups, that's the ONLY way to measure the group-size.  It's just too difficult to determine the "center" of 5 different bullet holes when all the bullets made just one relatively small hole on the target.

That MV is almost 100 fps faster than any maximum load I've ever seen from ANY rifle powder in my .300 Savage using 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullets.  While working up my hunting load and figuring out which rifle powder/primer combination my individual rifle "liked" best, I also worked up loads (to maximuim suggested pressure) of IMR3031 and IMR4064, but neither powder gave me the velocity combined with accuracy that 41.5 grains of IMR4895 (the listed "maximum" load for this powder) gave me in my rifle.

Ok....ok... okkkkkkkkkk... I know you're wondering what that letter was, eh?  Hahahahahaha.......... it was an "E" (looked EXACTLY like that "E", too)... indicating my rifle was manufactured in either 1952 or 1953.

Could I ask another favor, Dutch?  What is the site address of that "Savage Collector's Forum" you mentioned in your post?  I'd like to take a look at it.  I'm a Model 99 Savage "enthusiast" as well!  Who wouldn't LOVE such a fine, accurate, "classic" rifle deer rifle?!?!?!?

Thanx again for your help, Dutch... I "owe" you BIG TIME!!!

Good shooting!

Strength & Honor, my friend.......

Ron T.

[Ron T.]

Jim (jhm)...

Thank you very much for your reply.  You were correct... my rifle was manufactured "after 1951"... RIGHT after "1951", in fact!  According to the information furnished by "Dutch4122", the "E" stamped into the lever "boss"indicates my Model 99 Savage it was made in either 1952 or 1953.

Thanx again for all the helpful replies.

Strength & Honor,

Ron T.

[Dutch4122]

Ron-

Glad to hear that the letter code system helped you to ID the rifle; and it sounds like you've got quite a keeper!

Also, I sent you a PM.

Glad to be of help!

[savageT]

Jim (jhm)...

Thank you very much for your reply.  You were correct... my rifle was manufactured "after 1951"... RIGHT after "1951", in fact!  According to the information furnished by "Dutch4122", the "E" stamped into the lever "boss"indicates my Model 99 Savage it was made in either 1952 or 1953.

Thanx again for all the helpful replies.

Strength & Honor,

Ron T.

RonT,
I will give you the name of the Savage Historian if you are interested.  It does cost $20.00 for his services but he has access to serial number records and who, when and where the gun was sold to:

write to:
J.T. Callahan
53 Old Quary Road
Westfield MA 01085

For Savage Arms research for rifles, pistols and shotguns that were serialized, information can be furnished for 1895, 1899 and Model 99 rifles at a charge of $20.00 per gun.  Information on other Savage models will be furnished at $15.00 per gun.  If a model number is not know, I suggest that all pertinent information be given. or if possible by including a photo.  Information should include seriel number, caliber or gauge, barrel length and style (round, octagon, etc.), stock and fore-end style, markings, patent dates, inspectors stamps, etc., from the butt plate, barrel, frame, or receiver.

Please limit your requests to no more than five searches at one time.  Responses will take 2 to 4 weeks from the time I receive your inquiry and complete your search.

Thank you for your interest.

John T. Callahan

[Ron T.]

Thanx, Savage T. for your information.

Several years ago, I owned a different Model 99 which wasn't nearly as nice as my current one.  While researching it's age, I was referred to and corresponded with another gentleman who knows the ages of Savage Model 99's.

His name was/is Ken Waters of New Canaan, CT.  Yes, he's the same "Ken Waters" who is the gun-writer for Wolfe Publications (Rifle Magazine, etc.) and other well-known outdoor magazines...  and he's the "father" of the "7-30 Waters" and other "wildcat" cartridges.

I've found gun-writers are mostly "good folk"... Ken wrote me several letters about a couple of different subjects and I have kept them all.  I wish I had done the same with Elmer Keith's letters.

I did keep one personal letter written to me by Elmer Keith, dated "May 28th-65" written on his personal "Guns & Ammo" stationery with his name as "Shooting Editor" and his"Salmon, Idaho" (his home) inside address.  It was a type-written letter simply ending with a typed "Sincerely, Keith", then signed "Keith" in blue ink below the typed “Keith”.

This particular letter was a reply to a letter I had written him about handloads for my pre-'64 Model 70 in .338 Winchester magnum.  He was telling me about his three .338 Winchester magnum rifles, he wrote that he had “a magnificent Browning Olympian, a F.N. Action barreled and scope sighted by Iver Henriksen with a long magazine and long throat for the 275 and 300 grain bullets seated out with the bullet base flush with the rear end of the case neck and also a Halger No 85 action mag mauser in 338.”

Elmer Keith also suggested "a good load” for my Model 70 Winchester in .338 magnum… “74 grains of 4831 (he didn’t say whether he meant “IMR4831” or “H4831”) and either a CCI magnum or a Federal 215 primer and a 275 grain Speer bullet.”  I think he mentioned that this load was a “good deer load”… hahahahahahaha.

He went on to laugh about my friends shooting one of his “three .577s that use up to 750 grain slugs and 100 grains of Cordite from 12 pound rifles.  No one ever accused Elmer Keith of being afraid of recoil.  In fact, he was a rather small man in height… but a GIANT among gun-writers and shooters… and he’s sadly missed by most of us who spend many pleasant hours reading his stories.    


But I digress … which tends to happen a lot any more.  So let me get back to Ken Waters.  Ken also owned a Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage which he offered to sell to me in one of the personal letter he wrote to me… specifically the one he wrote on April 1, 2000.  He offered to sell me his Model 99 in .300 Savage for $475.  The price included a Stith Install-It-Yourself mount and a K-2.5 Weaver scope &  freight... a good deal, really.  It was of the same era as my old Model 99 and my current one... a 1951-52 model which, Ken wrote that his had “a brass rotor and good barrel… just a couple of nicks in the stock”.

Thinking about it now, I should have bought it.  It would have been "nice" to have owned a rifle that was once owned by a man as well-known in our "circles" as Ken Waters.

Hmmmmmm.... I wonder if he still has it?

Strength & Honor,

Ron T.