why i'm unhappy with my mathews

[dbknj]

My $270.00 Reflex Grizzly just killed a nice buck 2 weeks ago. I've shot the Cadillacs, bowtech, mathews etc... But my Reflex is all the bow I need.

[Rem270]

I shot PSE for years then i bought a Q2 from Mathews and loved it i gave it to my brother so he could hunt and bought a SB it was OK but now i have The XT and that is a sweet shooting bow

[Buckskin]

Archery is not a 50 yard sport, & anyone who says otherwise is only fooling themselves. Too much can go wrong out that far. On the 3-D range is one thing but the woods is something entirely different. You just do not have the power for consistant kills out there.  That being said my longest kill was 55 yards when I was very young & foolish. Now its a 30 yard sport where I kill 100% of the time. No long tracks or lost deer. Period. I had the same problem w/ Mathews asa the gentleman spoke & will never own another.  Mike

That is a crazy statement.  I surely depends on the hunter/shooter.  If a person can shoot as well at 50yds as another guy at 30 then what is the difference.  A bad shot is a bad shot if its 15yds or 50, actually the same bad shot will likely miss at 50 and wound at 15.  There is plenty of killing power at 50yds with todays bows, that is not a valid reason for not taking the shot.  You proved that point by stating that your longest kill was 55yds a long time ago.  I bet your bow wasn't nearly what it is today, as well as arrows and brodheads.

[slave]

All of the equipment is much beter than it was only 5 years ago. I always buy the quitest bow I can find with the least amount of letoff ofered.

[dakotashooter2]

Mathews had my new bow in my hands in a week..

They should have... you paid for two.

One thing to consider is that the technology has somewhat leveled off. They continue to tweak things but there haven't realy been any real "new inovations" for some time now. That said you ar paying for the name and advertizing more than R&D.

In my opinion the new bows are too technically advanced and are high maintenance from the" keeping in tune aspect". The guys that have them ALWAYS seem to be fiddling with them. I have a 10 year old golden eagle and have rarely had to make any adjustments in the time I have owned it.

pound your nails while my carpenter uses a nail gun. :wink

: I just had to comment on this. I have seen more work rejected because it was improperly done using a nail gun than that done with a hammer. Technology is not always better.

[SDS-GEN]

My Martin keeps plugging along, killing deer every year, none of the animals I've shot with it cared how much it cost.  A friend of mine ran an archery shop, he told me to buy one of the medium priced bows because there wasn't enough difference in quality or the way they shot to justify the price of the expensive ones.  And he would never sell Mathews because of the exact reason this post was started, too much of your money goes to letting the rest of the world know how great they are.  I don't know anyone who owns a Mathews that isn't happy with its quality or the way it shoots.

As for shooting animals at 50 yards, its a fools game.  I can hit a 4" circle at 50 yards consistently after practicing all summer, but I would never take that shot on an animal.  An animal can move an awful lot in the time it takes an arrow to travel 50 yards, I don't care how fast you THINK your arrow is going or how quiet you THINK your set up is.  I agree with what has been said before archery is a 30 yard or less game, it's more fun that way anyway.

[Buckskin]

As for shooting animals at 50 yards, its a fools game.  I can hit a 4" circle at 50 yards consistently after practicing all summer, but I would never take that shot on an animal.  An animal can move an awful lot in the time it takes an arrow to travel 50 yards, I don't care how fast you THINK your arrow is going or how quiet you THINK your set up is.  I agree with what has been said before archery is a 30 yard or less game, it's more fun that way anyway.

Especially if your shooting a Martin.  And I KNOW how fast my arrow is going, and I THINK its pretty quiet.  Plenty of deer have been killed at 50+ yds and many have been crippled at <20.   Not everyone has the nerves or skills for distance shooting.

[SDS-GEN]

Buckskin
I didn't question anyone's skill or nerves, and you are correct many animals have been killed at 50+ yards and many more have been wounded at under 20.  I believe there are just too many uncontrolable variables for shooting at game at long range.  If you want to shoot at animals at 50 yards thats up to you, but I will stand by my statement that its a fool's game.

[Buckskin]

Buckskin
I didn't question anyone's skill or nerves, and you are correct many animals have been killed at 50+ yards and many more have been wounded at under 20.  I believe there are just too many uncontrolable variables for shooting at game at long range.  If you want to shoot at animals at 50 yards thats up to you, but I will stand by my statement that its a fool's game.
[/quote

And I mine.  Just curious though, what are the uncontrolable variables?

[cam69conv]

Well lets see if I can answer that for ya there Buckskin.....Uncontrolable variable #1...In the amount of time it would take an arrow to travel 150 feet a deer could STEP 2 feet...The projected target of such step would put the vitals approxamatly 7 to 14 inches out of the target area and you just wounded a deer...And please dont tell me that you can mind control a deer not to step in that half second between your release and impact...Variable#2 Wind sheer...I dont care how much you practice you still cant control mother nature and that unavoidable little gust of wind right in the middle of your LONG shot path that could easily happen and does quite often...Theres a few inches off again...Variable#3 While you may be practicing these long shots under controled situations you aint practiced on a live target nor are you practicing out of a tree stand id imagine so there is another Variable...The best bow on the market is the one that you shoot with the most comfort and confidence...Yes Mathews Hypes too much and flat out lie alot about their innovativeness (they have copied everything they have on a bow or bought the technology) I.E. They used to brag that they were the inovators of single cam bows...Martin I do believe has the credit for that and sold Mathews the ability to use it...Parallel limbs ...Rhino was the first but they Failed and turned to BowTech which flew with it...Following year here comes Mathews with their innovation..lol...and so on and so on....Fact is Mathews is nothing but a copy cat company with a huge advertising budget as you can see...Look at EVERY hunting show...Mathews commercial...Every hunting Magazine...Mathews again...I aint gonna knock someone for aggressivly advertizing but they go overboard and it transfers to the customer in cost...I saw up there somewhere product development costs...Well since they pretty much just steal the latest thing and put their name on it I dont see that as a hindrence. If you look at the history of the compounds over the last 15 years you will see who has done what and when...Its easy to see what Im talking about with Mathews and I for one will never own one nor will I ever sell them out of my shop. Ill gladly fix them for people as I do get several a year with exploaded limbs...Broken Axels...Stripped limb pocket bolts...and so on and so on...

[SDS-GEN]

I'll add shot anglel and unseen brush to the list of variables.  The animal is always the biggest variable.  Its the same thing with guys who take shots with rifles at 600+ yards and slug guns at 150+.  They are successful enough to keep doing it but range always amplifies error.  We are kind of getting away from what this post was originally started for, why not post a separate topic or survey about this.  We all know that it will be six pages of guys bickering back and forth, just like they always do in deer camp when this subject is brought up.  Maybe a better post would be the merits of blonde vs. redhead, scotch vs. bourbon or chevy vs. ford.

[Buckskin]

SDS-GEN, Yes this should be a different thread, but this one kind of evolved.  Shot angle - I would only take a broadside shot at that distance. Brush not a factor if prepared for where the animal will be coming from or if its an open field where 50+ yds would be most likely.  Yes these are all factors, at 50 as well as 10yds.  And a gain I have to bring new technology into this conversation.  Slugs these days aren't the pumpkins of old.  The slugs I use (Hornady SST) zero at 150 and drop 7" at 300yds. Put a scope (I don't) on this baby and you have a rig that can kill out to that range with no problem. 

Cam69conv, Wow I don't know where to start. (I will leave your math skills out of it) I guess first of all a deer could step, well 1 foot for sure at 30yds if it can step 2 feet at a 50yd shot ( which I question, unless its spooked) so whats the difference still a bad shot.  And I may not be able to control their mind but I do have a feel for when a deer is comfortable and is likely not to move.  Wind sheer?  Well I quess I do have some reasonable judgement and would not take that shot unless conditions warranted it.  Generally when bowhunting, wind is not a major factor (low or not present) where I hunt, if it were of course I would pass. And while I don't practice out of a tree I do shoot elevated from my deck, which is about 15 feet above my target at 50yds.

Do what you like for shot distances,  but you shouldn't judge others who feel they can make a distance shot.  Of course if I had the choice (and I do set up primarily for 20yds or under on most of my set ups) I would want a close shot (last years was 5yds and my closest was one row of corn separating the buck and I)  just for the added thrill of getting as close as possible.  Your rant on Mathews I have no comment on - they make great bows as do others, they hype way more than anybody else, which bugs me.  I live in Wisconsin where they are made and I could not bring myself to support them and bought a Hoyt.

[dakotashooter2]

It don't have anything against Mathews bows. If you are a sucker and want to buy a top quality but grossly overpriced bow have at it. While you see a few on the used bow market I would venture that a majority of the owners that have upgraded have the old one laying in the garage and would be lucky to get $100 for it at a yard sale, same as any other brand. 30 years of experience have taught me that they are not "Gods gift to the archer" as many seem to claim. If you are able to find another brand of bow that properly fits you as well, it is likely you will shoot just as well with it no matter what the cost. The Mathews hype will burn out eventually. All major bow manufacturers have gone through this.  Bear, Browning, Hoyte, PSE and others  all had their "this is the greatest bow on earth" periods eventually to be dethroned more so because of a popularity contest than functional reasons. Unfortunately bowhunting is or has developed into a competitive sport. It's not so much any more about man vs deer but man vs man, bragging rights for who gets the biggest deer. This has prompted the need for so called better equipment to compensate those who don't have the hunting skill or time to develop those skills and are willing to "pay" for success. Granted the technology also helps good archers become better but at the expense of adding more to the ranks that don't want to have to "work" for the skills needed. Believe me, I have seen my share of archers/hunters that thought a new "superbow" was going to give them some magical improvement in their skills. Rarely did the technologlical advantage outweigh the lack of skill.

[Buckskin]

In a little bit of defense to Mathews and others, you do need to market in order to sell the most bows.  And saying that you are the best is a common practice in selling anything.  Marketing is marketing like it or not but that is the way everything is sold and a big reason most things are bought.  Technology in my opinion has bumped everyone's skill level up a notch.
And that is a good thing for the sport not bad.  But I would like to see all of these hot-shot competitive shooters go back and have to shoot a Bear Whitetail for a season.  And no I would not take a 50yd shot with that bow.

[gt2003]

I bought a high country split force 10 years ago.  If I recall correctly, that was when the split limb bows were just taking off.  I had a Martin Jaguar (?maybe) before that.  It was fairly accurate but was really long and didn't shoot fast at all.  So, I changed bows and bow shops.  I bought my split force and still have it today.  I only have a 27" draw length and a 65lb draw weight.  My bow shoots 270fps.  I practice back to 40 or 50 yds during off season.  Only because it then makes 20 yards look like 20 feet.  I've got confidence in the bow and haven't seen anything that really makes me want to spend the money to "upgrade".  I think the bow is an important part, however, I think the bow shop is an important part also.  I drive almost 2 hours to the archery shop I use.  The guy that owns it takes extreme, almost anal, pride in his work.  I still can't walk in that shop today without him saying, "let me see it".  He'll adjust it, make sure its in time etc. before I get it back.  I may change accessories but overall I'm happy with my bow.  I know its a good bow, is still pretty fast and is really quiet.  At hunting distances its deadly.  Its killed deer, rabbit, armadillo and hogs.  I may switch to the lighter gold tip arrows but I've got to go through the dozen that i currently own before the switch.  Find a good bow you like, but search like hell until you find a bow shop that treats your bow just like it was their own.  I think that is where the real difference is made.  Good luck in all your hunting adventures.  Greg......1996 High Country Split force, 27" draw, 65lb draw weight, 100 grain Vortex expandable broadheads, Gold Tip 5575 arrows, standard TM hunter rest, PSE truGlo sight, limbsaver string silencers.