rabbit dog where when and how

[Aaro]

I have about a 5 to 6 month old beagel that I want to get to run rabbits. My question is how do I start and when? I dont know much about training a dog to do this and he shows intrest in tracking but I cant get him to get after a rabbit.

[curdog]

give him a little time, some dogs take longer to (get it). try to find someone who has started dogs, ask if you could hunt with them awhile, most dog people are good about that, may even get you an old rabbit hide and drag it around with him chasing you. good luck

[JW/OK]

Like Curdog suggested, give them time. Take them on a walk with you where there are rabbits and when you jump one show the pups where the rabbit was bedded. If they have the desire to hunt, a few times of this  and they will soon be running a track. Beagles should show an interest in trailing by six months of age. Good luck and feed them lots of rabbit tracks!

[Don Fischer]

I would think that if I wanted to get a rabbit dog started well, I'd get some rabbit's. I've never had a rabbit dog but to do bird dogs I use birds, actually pigeon's. The leap from a piegon to a game bird just ain't that great. Think in this case, I'd get some domestic rabbits and turn them loose where I'd walk my dog. I'd know where I put them down so I'd have the advantage of walking my pup to them. I doubt your pup will care if they are wild or not but it will start looking for them. And if it catches them, no sweat. It won't catch a wild one very often. Ya want a flushing dog to agressively flush, put game in it's mouth! A rabbit is really only a flushing dog that chases.

Probally really need to get Victor Charlie in here, I'm out of my element.

[hicntry]

I am out of my element here also but birds are birds and fur is fur. Any good fur dog should have the natural instinct. Birds have to be trained. All that is needed with a fur dog is exposure, not training. Quite the opposite for birds. If it isn't there, you can't train it. Birds you can.....up to a point.  No pun intended. If I have a pup that doesn't show me what I like in the extreme. I sell them to a genetisist.  

[victorcharlie]

A couple of things......

Right now, in most places, with the dry hot weather, the scent is not real high and it's difficult to start a pup in poor scent conditions.  We're just out of the "dog days of August", and hot and dry weather is one of the conditions that will show a fellow what his hounds are made of........this is where the slow deliberate hound shines.  It's very easy for a hound to out run his nose in these conditions thus leading to a long "check", or loss.  This time of year it's hard for a young dog to smell scent.

That said, go out early in the morning while the air is cool and the ground moist or try running a night.  A good rain usually makes scenting better.

Talking to most of my beagling friends, the scenting conditions are tough around here right now and the older, more experienced hounds are having to slow down and really use their nose in order to keep the chase going.

Quite honestly, this is not the best time to work with a young dog.  Conditions should improve as the weather cools.

Your pup is the right age, as most seem to start the easiest when they start sheading their teeth.

You have to put rabbits in front of you hound.  A starting pen, or small enclosure speeds the process as you can put more rabbits in front of the hound faster, or give him more opportunity faster. 

For sure, try to be out right after a good rain........

 

[Don Fischer]

You have to put rabbits in front of you hound.  A starting pen, or small enclosure speeds the process as you can put more rabbits in front of the hound faster, or give him more opportunity faster. 

 

A starting pen or small enclosure? Are you putting your young dog in an enclosed pen with domestic rabbits? That seems a good idea, ya can't teach a bird dog without birds and ya probally can't teach a rabbit dob without rabbits.

[victorcharlie]

Most starting enclosures are several acres........that said, an old man took a san Jaun and put it in an enclosure that was about 50' X 50'.  He put the pup on a 50' lunge line an got the pup chasing the rabbit.  After a couple of minutes he opened the enclosure and let the rabbit out then unsnapped the lead on the pup........pup started chasing the rabbit.

Most of the guys take their hounds to some one with a several acre enclosue with wild cotton tail and want the pup back as soon as he barks on a line.  To much enclosure time, unless it's a large enclosure, creates a host of different problems.  If there are a lot of rabbits then the pup might learn to let go of the line he's running in order to jump a fresh rabbit thus avoiding the hard work of regaining a lost line.  The real problem with small enclosures is to much scent.  Also, enclosed rabbits, even wild cotton tails in an enclosure, run different than in the wild.  It's not hard to tell a hound that runs frequently in an enclosure, so most guys want the pup "green" started.

I think the best set up I've seen is an acre enclosure with plenty of rabbits to just get the hound barking a line and then moved into  a 50 acre enclosure with fewer rabbits for a few days before going out in the field. 

Some enclosures have deer in order to persuade the pup not to run a deer line.  Myself personally, I'd rather keep my hounds from smelling a deer until they are well started on rabbits.  A beagle is a multi purpose trailing hound and was bread to run anything.  With the deer as thick as flees, most guys are trying to breed out running "off" game...but are meeting with limited sucess.  Several more generations will be required in changing such in-bread traits and it's very difficult to find hounds that won't run deer.  I learned a long time ago to say they haven't run deer instead of they won't run deer........a hound has a mind of his own and if I can get a pup up to age 3 without running a deer there is a good chance that they won't run deer.  Deer run several miles.  The daily limit on doe deer in middle TN is 3 per day......there are a lot of deer and hounds running deer, although defined in the AKC rule book as not a fault, is one of the biggest faults a hound can have in the eyes of most hunters.  There has been an effort to change the rule but it hasn't happened yet.....

I also like to run the pup solo until he can consistantly circle a rabbit by himself before putting pack pressue on him.........to much pressure to early and you can "blow" the pup up, or in other words, he begins to run without regard to the line, becoming over competative to a fault and has to have the front.......after he's doing it all by himself I like to put another hound of equal ability with him and slowly work up to a pack after he's deminstrated he can handle the pressure.

[Aaro]

Thank guys you all have been loads of help. I am definately going to use all of this information. I took him out two nights ago and he had his tail up and nose on the ground as he should but unfortunately we never saw a rabbit wihich has been the biggest problem so far. Im going to keep working with him. Now another question I know someone how has a starting pen but the hawks have cleaned it out. So how do you catch or get rabbits from to put back in it?

[victorcharlie]

Rabbits are hard to trap this time of year as they have plenty to eat.....

after a good hard frost use a box trap baited with apples.......doesn't have to be fancy and there are several plans that would work well on the net.......

You really need a good hot rabbit to leave a "known" line.......if the pup doesn't see the rabbit come up just work him over the hot line......

I, on occasion, in the kennel,  will throw a few grains of dog food on the ground and holler tally ho and point to the food.  The pup learns that if he looks where I point he'll find something good........

Out in the field, when the rabbit comes up and leaves a line just holler tally ho and point to the line.......hopefully the pup will come looking for the treat and find the line........

Starting pups in the wild takes patience......and they usually only run for a few yards and loose the line.....over time the runs will get longer and hopefully, you'll have a hound that develops to the point where he seldom runs to a loss.......

Generally, the more game you give him the faster they develop........just have fun and enjoy the hound......

[rockbilly]

When I lived east of the Sabine River, I did a lot of rabbit hunting and owned many beagles over the years.  Most of my dogs "hunted out of the box", if they didn't I found them a new home.  By out of the box, I mean naturally, by instinct.  They may need ssome refinement to stop them from chasing deer, fox, etc, but they will normally hunt and chase at an early stage.

That reminds me of one old dog, he was so good that we had to plug one nostril with a cork to keep him from two rabbits at the same time.

[victorcharlie]

When I lived east of the Sabine River, I did a lot of rabbit hunting and owned many beagles over the years.  Most of my dogs "hunted out of the box", if they didn't I found them a new home.  By out of the box, I mean naturally, by instinct.  They may need ssome refinement to stop them from chasing deer, fox, etc, but they will normally hunt and chase at an early stage.

That reminds me of one old dog, he was so good that we had to plug one nostril with a cork to keep him from two rabbits at the same time.

Yep, that's pretty much correct....genetics is everything in a hound.  They either do or don't......you still have to give them the opportunity...i.e.....game to run........

I've found pups start easiest when their sheading their teeth.....around 5 months......

[jrlinz]

Basically, teach your pup to come when called, and turn him loose on the rabbits.  He will do the rest. If he's any good, He will probably be teaching you, before long!