.280 or .280 Ackley Improved

[Buckfever]

Gentlemen, In your opinion is it worth the effort to Ackley Improve a .280?  Does a 24" barrel get you much velocity over a 22" barrel?  I am looking for a longer range Mule deer rig so accuracy is a big issue.  I like the .280 because it doesn't have the recoil of a 7mm Mag.   Thoughts?    Thanks  Buckfever

[gunnut69]

The 280 is a wonderful round and fairly tapered. There will be a minor gain in performance but really pretty inconsequencial.. What iss detect is the desire for a 7mm Mag but witht the recoil of a 280. The reality is that physics is not easily altered and equal and opossite is imuteable.. The recoil of the 30-06 is considered about the most recoil that many folks can handle well. The 280 and the 30-06 it comes from generate nearly the same recoil levels as the 7mmMag, thus the reason for the big seven's popularity. I still prefer the 280 and would bother with the Ackley conversion. With 140 to 160 grain bullets it is a great game rifle and while I am usually a heavy bullet shooter the 280 with a premium 140-150 will take any deer at any reasonable distance with ease.. I actually prefer the 140 Partition(or the ballistic tip) and IMR4350. The amount varies with the rifle as always. It's not possible to generate like velocity with identicle bullets and have differing recoil levels.. For the recoil sensitive a stock built to fit can really make a difference. The ral problem I believe is not so much the recoil as the felt recoil.. A well fitted stock and good pad can do much to help. The most important part of long range shooting isn't the power of the cartridge but accuracy.  A standard 280 will generate dead deer at ranges a lot further than any of us should be shooting at live creatures..

[Buckfever]

Thanks Gunnut, I get it, if you want the Velocity you will get the recoil.  I have a 30-06 but I have never had a 30-06 that was a tack driver at longer range, 300yds.  I thought the .280 might get it done.  Are there any other calibers you would suggest?  This rifle thing is also about fit and feel and looks.  I am old school still like the wood and blued.   Thanks  Buckfever

[Nobade]

If they're built right either caliber (280, 280 AI or 30-06) as well as pretty much anything else is going to be plenty accurate. If your rifle isn't grouping into at least 2 inches or better off the bench at 300 yards, it needs to be looked at to see what is the matter.  If it's not built right it doesn't matter what caliber you have. And as Gunnut says, it has to fit you properly and you have to be comfortable behind it to get the best results. As for old vs new school, I'm with you - it's hard to beat a nice M70 for feel and function!

[gunnut69]

I really like the 280,so much so I built my daughter a 280(she hasn't missed a deer with it yet!) but only have 2 of them my self. One I bought as a backup for My daughter(nice explanation huh?) and it's a Remington M700 mountain rifle. A little light but it shoots very well. The other is a 280 AI I bought as a project and haven't finished it yet.. It was built for one of the guys at Midway and was stocked as a mountain rifle but with a bit of cast on. He was left handed. It's late model M70 pushfeed. Tiffany's M700 will touch bullet holes at 100 yards and the trigger does rfeal well. The extractor was causing a problem but that I worked out.. For really long range work I prefer either a 7mmRemMag or my 300 WinMag. The 300 is perhaps a bit much for whitetails but I've never had one complain yet. It's too heavy to snap shoot with,, The 7mm I most often use is an old model Ruger M77. It's pretty rough but always shoots where you put it and with 160 Noslers I've killed coyotes at 350 plus.. A deer has no chance.. But the 280 would do as well..  The absolute truth is that it's more fun to worry about caliber for a specific situation than the job truly requires.. Almost any reasonable modern high velocity round will work.. 280, 30-06, 7Mag,, nearly irrelatvent.. As to accuracy the 30-06 has set a bunch of records and was once the darling of the rifle match folks!! Construction quality and the man behind the rifle are more important than caliber..

[Buckfever]

Gunnut69 and Noblade those were very well written reply's with a lot of thoughtful points.  I went to a range yesterday with my 6.5x55 and had a ball shooting 100yd and 200yd groups.  The 100yd one 3 shot group at .75.  I couldn't help think about your reply's about wanting more velocity and less recoil.  When you are at a range that you can shoot 300yds you really get an idea how far away that is, not just a number to throw around.  I guess I would like to keep most of my longs shot under 200yds if possible, and maybe just maybe out to 300yd if there is no way to get closer.  So if I use this logic my chances increase with more skill on my part, moore shooting, and precision ammunition.  So no new gun yet, focus to re-loading and shooting more.

Finally I wish to thank you guys for taking the time to get on the right track!! 

Buckfever

[gunnut69]

Practicing at long ranges is a really great idea.. Aim small, miss small..  It also makes the normal shots look a lot easier!

[Val]

I have a Remy 700 Mountain rifle in 280 Remington. I use 140 grain Accubonds in my load. My 30-06 shoots 165 grain pellets. The recoil in my 280 seem a lot lighter than the 30-06, probably because of the lighter bullet. I like both those rifles a lot, I also like my other calibers a lot.

[charles p]

I have both the 280 and the 280AI.  Both are excellent rifles and even though the AI is a custom rifle, it is harder to chamber because of the straighter wall of the Ackley.  If all your shots are one-shot kills, it won't matter.

Brass life for the Ackley is exceptional.

[gunnut69]

It is hard to replicate the oily snake slickness of a longer tapered round feeding from a well set up bolt gun. The AI rounds give some energy improvements and perhaps even a modest trajectory boost but it's likely thier foremost advantage is the vastly improved case life. Those long sloped rounds we enjoy so much aren't especially well headspaced and any rimmed or belted rounds are likely even worst.. The 22 Hornet is a case in point. The main reason for the K version of the hornet is the increase in case life.. Of course that's just my opinion...