Author Topic: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!  (Read 3847 times)

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Offline Keith L

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2006, 07:10:40 AM »
"For your information the bean counters no longer deteremine price.  That statement proves you are living in the past.  The market determines the price."

Oh, so the big oil companies really aren't gouging us at the pump.  They are merely "reacting" to market forces and the market is determining the price.  That explains why Exxon-Mobil could give their retiring chairman a $400 million (not forty, four-hundred) severance package. 

Thanks for the info.

Oil prices are not regulated by the market now are they.  That would requirer competition which in that industry seems non-existant.  It is more of a utility and an unregulated one.  I am sure you can see the difference.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Keith L

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2006, 07:39:06 AM »
I don't doubt that management is to blame as well.  I don't care who is to blame, if the product stinks I won't buy it.  If Winchesters were produced in the way the road construction is progressing outside my office I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did.  Consistently there are twice as many certified observers than people actually doing work.  I wish my job worked that way.  Course management should grow a pair and fight the system that allows such waste.  Both sides are at fault. 



Are you sure that they are union?  According to the US Department of Labor less than 20% of construction workers are union.  There are two road conststruction projects that make my one hour commute into a 1.5 hour commute, and they have been going on forever.  No union workers here.  A couple of companies under investigation for bid rigging however.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline while99

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2006, 06:38:53 PM »
I agree with Hairtrigger.  The balance sheet leverage is with the low-cost provider.

'Nuff said on this issue.  I'm going on vacation.

Offline .308 Win.

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2006, 12:10:18 PM »
I do not belong to a union but I believe in them whole-heartedly.  When, as the above post states, unions and companies work together, they do work well.  If it had not been for the union when my father was an iron worker, we would not have had much of anything.  Instead, we had insurance that covered everything and my father was well paid.  In general, when a person is hired to work in a manufacturing plant and the workforce is organized, the workers are well-trained and therefore are capable of producing a superior product than a six-year-old kid named Zing-O-Ping somewhere in Asia. My father went to school for quite a few years before he became an apprentice and then a journeyman iron worker.  If the workforce at Winchester would not bend and be willing to negotiate with the company in order to keep the plant up and running, then I think there was a fault with the union representation and their relationship with the company to work toward a common goal.  I think they had a responsibility to the sportsmen and women of this country to insure this great old company remain solvent.  LIke I said, I believe in unions but IF the reason for the demise of this company was over labor, that's more than a shame.  It, to me, is criminal.  And all this left-wing vs. right wing crap is the problem in this country today.  No one wants to meet in the middle so the masses will eventually have to pay for this inability to compromise.         

Offline Keith L

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2006, 12:20:26 PM »
The Machinists Union has what is known as High Performance Work Organization that has a proven track record in getting productivity up in all kinds of plants around the country and in Canada.  I know it was available in this case.  I don't know if they used it or not.  The anti-union sentiment shown on this subject is not based on fact but on guesses and anti-union sentiment.  If those spouting this were aware of the changes in Labor over the past ten years or so they would have a different opinion.  Unfortunately it is far easier to spout hate than to do a little research.
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Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2006, 02:29:34 PM »
I do not belong to a union but I believe in them whole-heartedly.  When, as the above post states, unions and companies work together, they do work well.  If it had not been for the union when my father was an iron worker, we would not have had much of anything.  Instead, we had insurance that covered everything and my father was well paid.  In general, when a person is hired to work in a manufacturing plant and the workforce is organized, the workers are well-trained and therefore are capable of producing a superior product than a six-year-old kid named Zing-O-Ping somewhere in Asia. My father went to school for quite a few years before he became an apprentice and then a journeyman iron worker.  If the workforce at Winchester would not bend and be willing to negotiate with the company in order to keep the plant up and running, then I think there was a fault with the union representation and their relationship with the company to work toward a common goal.  I think they had a responsibility to the sportsmen and women of this country to insure this great old company remain solvent.  LIke I said, I believe in unions but IF the reason for the demise of this company was over labor, that's more than a shame.  It, to me, is criminal.  And all this left-wing vs. right wing crap is the problem in this country today.  No one wants to meet in the middle so the masses will eventually have to pay for this inability to compromise.         

I think there used to be a place for the unions. Since then the unions have gotten to much stregnth and quite a bit of fat at the top. Too many guys that are sucking off the working man's dues. On local radio and television the unions encourage workers that are non union to become union even mentioning walmart employees, I think that is dead WRONG.

Offline .308 Win.

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Re: Browning Assumes Winchester Rifles & Shotguns!!!
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2006, 06:35:45 PM »
If you look at Wal-Mart and its track record of labor infractions (making "associates" work overtime without overtime pay, not paying women the same as men for equal work, etc.), you will see the list is long and that is why the AFL-CIO people I know won't even shop there.  Statistically speaking, in places where Wal-Mart supercenters are, those employees have a higher rate of dependence on social programs because that company doesn't take care of its employees.  Those people who are dependent on social programs that are employees of Wal-Mart aren't to blame.  They are just the working poor.  With the money Wal-Mart has, you would think they could treat their employees better.  The prices at Wal-Mart might be lower initially but you and I pay much more for those products in the end because we are paying into the social services program for those people.  If you even mention the word "Union" in a Wal-Mart store and you are an employee there, you are putting your job on the line.  It's very well documented they rid themselves of union-minded people.  Unions are the representatives of the working stiff and they ensure the common employee has a voice. Without them, if you voice your opinions, you are subject to dismissal.  So, getting back to the original subject of Browning assuming Winchester: I only hope they will produce the '94 and the Model 70 again and will do so at the level of quality we've come to expect over the years.  Whether they be made in Belgium or Japan or Timbuktu, I hope we see the return of these two rifles once again.  I called Browning's service department to see about the availability of parts for the Model 70 and the lady with whom I spoke said everything was really up in the air with no definite plan in place.  The conversation I had with her was just last week and I called for a replacement stock for a Featherweight stock for my 70 in .30/06.  She said they were out of them and did not know if they would be getting any more in.  Didn't sound too encouraging.