Author Topic: 454 vs 44Mag  (Read 1256 times)

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Offline MTRamMan

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454 vs 44Mag
« on: October 17, 2003, 12:41:44 PM »
Sorry if this has been discussed already, but I'm new here and couldn't find this topic. I live in MT and spend time in the mountains occassionaly. Here...I'm not at the top of the food chain, due to grizzlies in the woods. I plan to carry a can of counter assault bear spray, but still would like a back up weapon/ pistol. I have little experience with revolvers other than a 357 magnum. I've been told by several that 357 magnum is the smallest they would rec. for pistol caliber for protection from grizzlies. I would like to carry the biggest possible caliber that would still be "fun" to shoot and not be overly punishing on recoil. I'll be the first to shoot whatever is handed to me, but I'd still like to enjoy it at the same time.

What I'd like to hear is feedback from others with experience with these calibers, 44magnum , 454 casull and 480. I'm looking at ruger superhawks, as they feel great in my smaller hands, and Tarus Raging bulls. I like the fact that Tauurs ports their guns, but the Ruger felt more comfortable in my hands. I'm open to other choices as well if anyone cares to offer. Thanks for any input on this topic.

Dan

Offline myronman3

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2003, 03:20:53 PM »
usually i pipe up about how i wish i had gone with the 44 mag,  then i read the word grizzlies.   i got lots of experience with blackies but  none with their larger kin.   in my mind bigger is better in your case.   either get  downloaded ammo or make your own if the recoil bothers you.  really though, it is less than you would expect.

Offline MS Hitman

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2003, 05:09:38 PM »
I have owned a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 and no longer do so.  It was a piece of crap, although others on this board have had dissimilar experiences with the specimens they have had or do own.  I have killed animals with and shot the Taurus Raging Bull in .454.  Based on this hands-on experience, I prefer the Raging Bull to the Super Redhawk.  This is my opinion.  I own three Freedom Arms revolvers.  I have shot them many times and killed game with them.  Based on my experiences of pulling the trigger and piling up game, I prefer the Freedom Arms revolver to either of the double action revolvers.  I carried my 7.5" FA in .454 to Africa (honest, I've even got photos) and shot game over there with it.

If one shoots near to or full house loads, a bear at close range would not only be hit with the bullet, but also with 45,000 to 50,000 psi of gas pressure.  This will go a long way to getting a mad bear off one's anatomy.  Please note, I have not shot a mad bear off the end of my revolver barrel, however I do not have to make this deduction.  Massad Ayoob, I believe, relayed a police report in one of his columns describing how a perp was killed from the concussion of a .45-70 Derringer.  I know these exist because I have held one in my own hands.  

I own and shot game animals up to elk size with my Model 83 chambered in .475 Linebaugh .  Based on my experiences, I would carry this revolver if I expected to meet up with a grizzly bear outside the zoo.  There is a large enough record of data to deduce the larger bullet of the .475 Linebaugh is a better stopping round than the smaller bullet from the .454 Casull.  Of course, bears do not read such information.  I regularly load my .475 down with loads driving a 400 grain cast bullet traveling at 850 fps.  Easy to shoot and penetrates like crazy in wet newsprint.  

So all this to say, that according to the manufacturer's information and I'll have to take their word as I do not posses pressure testing equipment, the .480 Ruger operates at lower pressures than the .454 Casull and a 400 grain cast bullet traveling at 1000 fps or above should get you enough penetration to break a bear's shoulder.  I have not shot a bear in the shoulder, but I have shot plenty of soaked newsprint with cow bone inserted in it to draw this conclusion.

If you do much hiking or walking throught the woods, I also recommend a 6" long barrel single action.  My FA weighs less than the SRH I owned.  It is very easy to carry and it fits under my pillow easily at night.  

Based on my personal experiences, and talking with others about their personal experiences, I'd stay away from the .44 Mag if peeling a bear off oneself may be a possibilty and go with either the .454 or the .480; I'd like more at the .454 as it is more versatile in applications than the .480.

Offline Questor

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2003, 07:26:01 AM »
This comes up often, but I don't think I've ever seen a response from someone who actually encounters grizzly bears often. I wonder what the ranchers and outfitters use in grizzly country.
Safety first

Offline Questor

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2003, 07:34:41 AM »
http://www.yellowstonegrizzly.com/pdfs/BearAttacks.pdf

Very interesting. Some insight into pistol usage.
Safety first

Offline Dan Chamberlain

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Don't discount the .480 Ruger
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2003, 07:43:04 AM »
The .480 can be had in both the Super Redhawk and the Taurus Raging Bull.  The .480 affers a significant improvement over the .44 mag, but with a significant reduction in punishment from the .454!  Just a thought

Dan C

Offline chazgin

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One more option
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2003, 03:45:01 PM »
The Dan Wesson 445 Supermag. Loads are only slightly behind a 454. The revolver can shoot 44 mags as well and can be had in a variety of interchangeable barrel lengths ported or non ported. Considerably less expensive than a FA or Linebaugh conversion. The DW quality is high and it is the winingest IHMSA revolver made.

Offline willis5

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2003, 06:50:38 AM »
Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
http://www.yellowstonegrizzly.com/pdfs/BearAttacks.pdf

Very interesting. Some insight into pistol usage.


Did anyone else read this? Are we scared to comment? :wink:

I think I would mess myself before I could get the pepper spray (a.k.a. binaca for bears) or a gun out if one charged. :-D  
 
I would go with lighter recoil incase you get another shot off (unlikely)
I think I would rather have two shots at an imposible target as opposed to one... it doubles your chance of success (which is still not to good).
Thanks for letting me post my "opinion"
Cheers,
Willis5

Offline MTRamMan

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2003, 04:10:17 PM »
Thanks for everyones reply. Yes, I did read the text on Grizzly Bears. I've heard from other sources that the Bear spray is superior to a handgun. It seems to me that you'd be more likely to deter the bear with such a large cloud of spray as opposed to a single bullet, or a few. Never the less, I plan to carry a sidearm to deter all threats in the woods.

It's interesting to see all the different legitiment points that everyone has to offer. Is there that much difference in
recoil between the 44mag, 44, and the 480? I don't know if I'll have the chance to shoot them all b4 I buy one. Thanks  again.
 :biggun:

Offline volshooter

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2003, 10:48:53 AM »
I have never and probaly will never have any grizzly encounters, but I have a .44mag and a .454 and think that the .44 is a good choice. The .44 mag has taken about every animal on this rock. It is very easy to shoot, reload, and second shots are quicker than the .454. I've worked some time on reloading both and I wish I'd not spent the $ on .454 because there're no elephants rampaging here and I can reload the .44 cheap compaired to the .454. Y'all in big bear county will have to make you're own choice. Here in east TN we have nothing tougher than a PO'd boar or black bear, the .454 Casull is over kill. Give me a Super Black Hawk with fast moving hard cast.
Rick :D

Offline TScottO

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2003, 02:07:59 PM »
Hey Dan,

If I had any questions about bear defense I would go down to the African Hunting sections of this forum and pm JJHACK. I cannot give any advice on bears but just a hunch I don't think a can of aerosol spray would detour a pizzed off GRIZ. One thing I would be interested in for a defense handgun against a Griz would be something I could make a quick follow up shot with. When I shoot my 454 and 475 and they are loaded hot the gun is above my head after recoil....so I'm not sure that would be a good defense gun being that a follow up shot would be slow. As big and heavy as a SRH is you probably one have this problem.

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

Offline 1911crazy

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2003, 02:55:20 AM »
For the record the 357mag and 44mag has taken every game in northamerica so the 454 is overkill but we can never have enough gun right??  Sometimes its better to have an edge.   I carry my 44mag.       BigBill

Funny the 30-30 is the most popular gun for hunting up north but while most are in treestands and I'm on the ground I perfer my 338win.mag. I'm not built for running nor speed.  And after dropping a bear with it I can see vapor comming out of the exit hole where it took out 4 ribs on the exit too.  Having experience with close encounters many times with blackbears I went up from the '06 to a 338 but I do like the 444 marlin in thick brush the larger diameter bullet is a bulldozer. I've been tracking a few bears with 13" back paws.  Trust me you don't know the feeling of being 10' away from one in the high grass and can't get a shot and its been comming at you for a 100yds.  or being in the very thick pines with a 10 to 15' shot if that and it sounds like its uprooting trees going away from you(this is when I made the change to a 444) Sorry to go another direction but I just wanted to get some upclose and personal experiences to you then you deciede which handgun??  Its not fear but one hell of a adrenliene rush but that first split second its like on the movie jaws when the chief said the boat isn't big enough?? Thats when you think no gun is big enough too? But when we see our first bear in the open and ready to take a shot a feeling of slow motion comes over you and you know what you waited for and practiced for at the range and what you have to do trust me your not nervious then.  With any gun just place your first shot and if it doesn't drop empty the gun don't run the only thing a man can out run is a chicken so we are in trouble running.

Offline MTRamMan

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Bear Pistols
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2003, 07:53:19 AM »
Thanks Big Bill for your personal experiences. Sounds like you've had a few close encounters  :shock: ! What do you think about the follow up shot "theory".. go with a 44 magnum for quicker and more accurate follow up shots...or go  with a 480 or 454 for more initial punch power? I've never shot any of them yet, so I don't know what to expect from the guns as far as performance and handling goes. :?:

Offline 1badmagnum

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454 would be my choice
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2003, 12:31:47 PM »
I have shot the fa in 454,and I own a taurus 454 raging bull.
I shoot it alot,more than my 1911's.
I buy my componants from gibrass,mostly 230 grain fmj bullets so I can spend alot of time at the range.
I have no trouble handling the 454 rounds and feel confident in my ability to empty the pistol quickly and accurately if needed.
the porting and grips on the taurus help,although the extra shot capability of a super redhawk might come in handy in these circumstances.
most of my 44 magnum experience comes from my desert eagle,and is a very smooth shooting round after shooting the 454,but I'm actually more accurate with my 454.
I would rent some guns before dropping down money on a caliber you might not enjoy shooting.
my powder runs $80 delivered for 8 pounds and bullets are $60 per thousand,so I can shoot alot of practice shots.
obviously I use heavier hollow/soft points for defense and hunting,but being able to practice at the range goes a far way in being accurate in the forest.

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: Bear Pistols
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2003, 11:48:07 PM »
Quote from: MTRamMan
Thanks Big Bill for your personal experiences. Sounds like you've had a few close encounters  :shock: ! What do you think about the follow up shot "theory".. go with a 44 magnum for quicker and more accurate follow up shots...or go  with a 480 or 454 for more initial punch power? I've never shot any of them yet, so I don't know what to expect from the guns as far as performance and handling goes. :?:


I like the redhawk in 44mag it handles great but in grizz country I would up for more power it could make a difference between making many shots with a smaller caliber or just one with a bigger caliber if the bear is charging.  I think bigger is better as long as you can handle it and like it too.  Keep in mind there are a lot of guys who don't like the 44's too.  But i would rather have the edge than be a statistic.  Like anything its practice. practice and more practice and you will get to know the gun and how to handle it no matter which one you choose.   I think the 480 is the way to go its more than the 44 but less than the 454?          BigBill

I like my two redhawks and the super redhawk has to be even better weight wise for the larger 480 caliber.

Offline williamlayton

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454 vs 44Mag
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2003, 12:59:04 AM »
in a lotta ways i envy you boys up north--santy clause comes by your house first :D  :D -but my oh my ya'll got some wide range of hunting choices we doan have here in texas. seems as though ya have plenty of places ta hunt too. it is so expensive too hunt down here i gave it up cause i couldn't justify it any more. leases are outta sight--there are a bunch of em but they sure are proud of em.
anyway i sure do enjoy all of your post about your hunting experiances. they is better than a magazine.
i know i'm interrupting the train of thought here and i apologise but i needed to say it an thank ya.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD