500 S&W vs. 454 Casull

[poncaguy]

How  do arrows kill bears?

[WNY_Whitetailer]

Using the specs you describe I would go for a S&W Performance Center 460 XVR Compensated Hunter...The barrel is 6.5" long and it just looks darn cool...

[Redhawk1]

IMHO the 460 or 500 is overkill on hogs.  The 480 Ruger loaded with a 420gr LBT bullet flying at 1200fps, will kill a hog and defiantly a deer with no problems. Plus the recoil and muzzle blast is a lot less than either S&Ws.  Also the 480 will fit the bill for an easy packing bear gun.  FYI that load has killed bison with no issues also...complete pass through.

Define overkill..

[Redhawk1]

How  do arrows kill bears?

Can you do it at 100 yards??? I can with my 460 or 500 Mag..

I am an avid bow hunter, it is a different concept of hunting. Other than the obvious, I think you know the answer to your question.

[WNY_Whitetailer]

How  do arrows kill bears?

Can you do it at 100 yards??? I can with my 460 or 500 Mag..

I'll bet you can find Olympic archers that could...With consistent results as well.

[Lloyd Smale]

my deffintion is me hovering over freshly killed backstraps..

IMHO the 460 or 500 is overkill on hogs.  The 480 Ruger loaded with a 420gr LBT bullet flying at 1200fps, will kill a hog and defiantly a deer with no problems. Plus the recoil and muzzle blast is a lot less than either S&Ws.  Also the 480 will fit the bill for an easy packing bear gun.  FYI that load has killed bison with no issues also...complete pass through.

Define overkill..

[Redhawk1]

How  do arrows kill bears?

Can you do it at 100 yards??? I can with my 460 or 500 Mag..

I'll bet you can find Olympic archers that could...With consistent results as well.

OK that is another thread. But I doubt at 100 yards even an arrow would be lethal. But I don't think most hunters are Olympic archers. 

[Redhawk1]

my deffintion is me hovering over freshly killed backstraps..

IMHO the 460 or 500 is overkill on hogs.  The 480 Ruger loaded with a 420gr LBT bullet flying at 1200fps, will kill a hog and defiantly a deer with no problems. Plus the recoil and muzzle blast is a lot less than either S&Ws.  Also the 480 will fit the bill for an easy packing bear gun.  FYI that load has killed bison with no issues also...complete pass through.

Define overkill..

Good description. 

[STJ]

Define overkill..

The round(s) and guns are unessarily big for the job.  Yes it will kill it, but so will a 4 bore rifle.  I personally don't see the need to carry the extra weight and bulk around when it won't kill the game any better. 

[Heavyhaul]

I'm still saving for my 460, so I would have to use my DW 445 Supermag.  The barrels can be changed from 2 1/2 to 10 inch, compensated or not.  Which I am also saving for.  I guess that will end my advice.  I need to go find a way to fill my shopping list before I can work on planning my trip.  I am sure that I would pack a pistol on a trip like yours, and as yourself, I'm sure, I would keep my distance from the big furry things.  I wouldn't put myself in dangers way if I did have a big bore rifle.

[Redhawk1]

Define overkill..

The round(s) and guns are unessarily big for the job.  Yes it will kill it, but so will a 4 bore rifle.  I personally don't see the need to carry the extra weight and bulk around when it won't kill the game any better. 

So what is over kill? Your answer did not come close.  And just who determines what is over kill, you, me? I don't think there is such thing as over kill. Dead is dead...

[nomosendero]

Redhawk, do you mean that you have never seen a Buck after he has been put down, raise his head & grunt out the word "overkill"?  Come to think of it, neither have I. 

[TreyAzagthoth]

How  do arrows kill bears?

Can you do it at 100 yards??? I can with my 460 or 500 Mag..

I'll bet you can find Olympic archers that could...With consistent results as well.

OK that is another thread. But I doubt at 100 yards even an arrow would be lethal. But I don't think most hunters are Olympic archers. 

remember the olympic archer that flat missed that whitetail? :Dgood times good times just cause you're a great shot doesnt mean you're a great hunter, also overkill is when you kill the animal until it dies from it

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got two different 500 linebaughs on 4 inch vaqueros that weight less then a 5.5 in superblackhawk and with 4 inch barrels pack alot nicer and loaded with 450s at 1100 fps they kill cleanly and you can just about eat around the bullet hole. To me they do alot less damage to meat then a 243 or 3030 and there not considered over kills. uote author=STJ link=topic=60089.msg1098250763#msg1098250763 date=1157588745]

Define overkill..

The round(s) and guns are unessarily big for the job.  Yes it will kill it, but so will a 4 bore rifle.  I personally don't see the need to carry the extra weight and bulk around when it won't kill the game any better. 

[STJ]

Talk about 'overkilling'  the meaning of a word...

Overkill is a slang term for the use of excessive force that seems to go farther than just achieving its goal. For example, trying to kill a bee with a gun would be overkill.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overkill_(term)

the capability to obliterate a target with more weapons than are required
any effort that seems to go farther than would be necessary to achieve its goal
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[STJ]

I don't think a 450gr 500lin at 1100fps is 'overkill'

Just like the 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh, it is a reasonably sized round and pistol combo.

The 500 and 460 is to big for a revolver platform.  I don't see an advantage to hauling them around when a smaller and easier carrying gun will do the job exactly the same...

I do believe they make a dandy Encore pistol or carbine round though.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with you on the long ones. I dont own either but have put a few thousand rounds through a 4 inch 500 and i have to admit it was packable in a hip holster and actually woulnd mind having one. The 460 redhawk and i have hashed out before and I really dont have much use for it but its more a ballistic thing then a packing thing as they make it in a 4 inch now too. I guess what you have to keep in mind too is that a 4 inch gun can be loaded down to do the same thing i do with mine.  A hard cast bullet even pushed to speeds that dont interest me still doesnt do alot of meat damage to a deer sized animal. Some people enjoy shooting the big bores and im one of them. I have my preference like anyone else but I surely have no problem with someone using any big bore for deer hunting. Dead is dead and ive never seen an animal to dead.

[Redhawk1]

I agree with you on the long ones. I dont own either but have put a few thousand rounds through a 4 inch 500 and i have to admit it was packable in a hip holster and actually woulnd mind having one. The 460 redhawk and i have hashed out before and I really dont have much use for it but its more a ballistic thing then a packing thing as they make it in a 4 inch now too. I guess what you have to keep in mind too is that a 4 inch gun can be loaded down to do the same thing i do with mine.  A hard cast bullet even pushed to speeds that dont interest me still doesnt do alot of meat damage to a deer sized animal. Some people enjoy shooting the big bores and im one of them. I have my preference like anyone else but I surely have no problem with someone using any big bore for deer hunting. Dead is dead and ive never seen an animal to dead.

Thanks Lloyd, I knew you understood. We all make personal choices and like you said,  the 460 and 500 Mag's do a lot less damage to meat then a 243 or 3030 and there not considered over kills.

Over-kill is an over use term.

[waynemorgan]

i took my first hog with my 460v on wed ,i was saving my last round for a bigger hog but this one just came along if it was not for the speed of the bullet it would not have killed him on the first shot,i would go with about 300 grs or use some 454 in my S&W .i like to have that option if i need it

p.s. that hog will taste good on 9/11

[Redhawk1]

i took my first hog with my 460v on wed ,i was saving my last round for a bigger hog but this one just came along if it was not for the speed of the bullet it would not have killed him on the first shot,i would go with about 300 grs or use some 454 in my S&W .i like to have that option if i need it

p.s. that hog will taste good on 9/11

Congrats on your hog. 

[DPHunter]

All of these guys are right about using hearing protection. Ear plugs are definetly a must with these big bore handguns. As for choosing between the .454 and .500, I'd go with the .500 myself. I feel like the .500 can do anything the .454 can do and more. Just try them both out, if you know people with both, and see what you like best. Good luck.

[zipperzap]

Well, not to belabor my point ... I used to lug around a LARS Grizzly .45 Win/Mag and I
have a couple of .454's, too, BUT when I'm up at Talkeetna, AK ... it's my Smith .500 alllll
the way! 4" barrel and I can hit accurately at 60 yards every time ... the DA's been worked to
perfection and always filled with our Max. reloads ... and only NOW do I feel 'adequately
protected' from a Grizzly charge ... I think!

A grizzly's skull is nicely armored at 1 1/2" in places. He's strong enough to (literally) knock a
horse's head off with one swipe. He charges with head down making for a much smaller target
than you'd think and he can run through you as easily as an F-150 can in a 45Mph. zone! He is
also a smart and wary stalker and can come up on the careless city slicker just as quietly as a
pussy cat.

I once was told a story, in a bar, by the local RCMP officer - in Dawson, YK - who was chased around
his living room - he and the wife - by a big grumpy griz who had come out of hybernation early - Feb. I
think - because of a mouth of abscessed teeth (bears don't die of old age, they die because of bad teeth)
and the ONLY thing that saved him (Mr. RCMP) was a ricochet off of one of his huge canines up into the
soft pallet into the bear's brain by the last of six .44 Mags. fired into his pursuer at close range! One shot in
a billion as the officer was fully airborne ... sailing across the kitchen towards a closed back door! His
story, already heard by his fellow knucks in the bar a thousand times, brought the house down ... and
 impressed yours truly, into buying a .500 just as soon as it hit the market!

During the summer I never 'leave (the) cabin' without it! ... and ... you know ... for the good feelings of well being
and self-preservation ... it ain't THAT heavy! 

[poncaguy]

What I meant with the arrow comment, is if an arrow will kill a bear, wouldn't a 357, 243, with the right bullets. Of course, If the bear was charging, I would definately want something a lot bigger....................

[Redhawk1]

What I meant with the arrow comment, is if an arrow will kill a bear, wouldn't a 357, 243, with the right bullets. Of course, If the bear was charging, I would definately want something a lot bigger....................

You cannot put arrows and bullets in a comparison, they kill differently.  Arrows kill by causing hemorrhaging, bullets kill by hydrostatic shock and tissue damage.

[zipperzap]

... and a Grizzy kills with ease!