Author Topic: Primer Pockets  (Read 821 times)

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Offline Goober

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Primer Pockets
« on: September 10, 2006, 09:14:34 AM »
How loose can primer pockets be and still be safe???

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2006, 11:00:34 AM »
Most loaders, self included. Just seat primers by feel. if it feels different/easier to seat a primer. I mark that case and when it turns up to be loaded again I just toss it.

CW
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Offline Goober

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 07:42:56 PM »
Thanks, that is what i thought and will start pitching cases.

Offline PA-Joe

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2006, 01:32:03 AM »
Did you recently change primers. Some just feel different!

Offline Goober

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2006, 03:01:46 AM »
No same primers but some go in real easy, they don't fall out but still get used.

Offline Questor

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2006, 03:40:12 AM »
If it's for a low-pressure round like the 45ACP, I'll keep using it. If it's for a higher pressure cartridge, like most rifle cartridges I will throw the case away without loading it. I know my rifle has some neat features to deflect hot gas if a primer or case ruptures, but I'd rather not have to test those features.
Safety first

Offline Goober

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2006, 07:40:26 PM »
Mostly load 223, but my 270 is loose the first time i try a new primer, is this normal for a 270?? They are Winchester brass, Remington primers 91/2.

Offline PaulS

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2006, 08:52:28 PM »
Its never for primer pockets to get loose unless you are loading higher pressures that you should be. As far as I know the only thing that makes primer pockets loose is too much pressure - well that and reaming them out.
PaulS

Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer, Sierra, Hornady = reliable resources
so and so's pages on the internet = not reliable resources
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2006, 03:09:21 AM »
What kind of load are you shooting in that .270 that has loose primers on the first reload??  It sounds hot.  Or, as posted, you're over-prepping your cases. 

Offline Goober

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2006, 05:51:39 AM »
I purchased new ammo at Wal-Mart for the brass, after fireing F/L sized, try to insert primer with lee hand primer and they go in real easy with very tension.

Offline dw06

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2006, 07:18:07 AM »
I get 8-10 reloadings out of 06 and 270 brass.Never have any loose primer pockets.The lee hand primer since you get a good feel of primer seating,makes them seem to go in easy,but oncefired brass shouldn't have loose pockets unless its just a bad batch.
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline Questor

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2006, 08:36:30 AM »
Hmmm. I bought some Winchester AA target shotshells at Wal Mart. AA's are usually excellent for reloading. These all had messed up crimps after I fired them. I wonder if the ammo companies sell their sub-standard ammo to Wal Mart.
Safety first

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2006, 01:46:57 PM »
As a general rule, I first use the same brand of primer as the brand of cartridge case I'm using... and so, in Winchester cases, I'd use standard Winchester large rifle primers and see if they are also "loose".  However, even if you are using Remington primers in Winchester cartrdige cases, the primers should NOT be "loose".  It should seat snuggly, but seat all the way "down".  Of course, this assumes you have cleaned the "residue" out of the primer pocket BEFORE seating a new primer... and you have seated the new, unfired primer down all the way with sufficient pressure to seat it fully, but not so much pressure as to crush the primer's anvil.

Crushing the primer's anvil due to using too much pressure to seat the new primer may cause the primer to mis-fire or "hang-fire".

You could have bought virgin (unfired) brass from reloading suppliers on the inter-net like Lock, Stock & Barrel or a gun shop in your area that sells reloading supplies and loaded them with prmier, powder and bullets yourself and saved a lot of money.

I usually buy new brass in lots of AT LEAST 100 new, unfired cartridge cases (aka "virgin brass") so that they are all from the same manufacturing "lot" and more likely to all have the same internal size, etc.

However, since these cartridges cases have only been fired ONCE as factory-loaded rounds, there is NO WAY you should be having "loose" primer pockets!!!

Like Paul S. and others have said... if the primer pockets get loose, it is usually due to your load being too "hot" (too high a chamber pressure).  Loose primer pockets are a SURE sign of too high a chamber pressure unless you've reamed out the primer pockets too far yourself... and this is NOT likely since primer pocket reamers generally won't ream out a primer pocket further than it is supposed to be unless you are tilting the reamer and grinding away on the sides of the primer pocket wall.

Loose primer pockets are a result of higher than normal chamber pressure pushing back through the cartridge case.  Evidence of such a happening is that you will usually see black "smudges" around the circumference of the primer sitting in the primer pocket prior to decapping the primer.  If you've seen or are seeing black smudges coming from around the primer... and your primer pockets are becoming more and more loose, your loads are simply too heavy since the "smudges" are actually powder residue being forced back through the mouth of the cartridge case due to EXTREMELY high chamber pressures.

After a few shots at these high pressures, you may find that the primer pockets are being expanded by EXTREMELY HIGH CHAMBER PRESSURE.  Naturally, the expanded primer pockets will NOT tightly hold the primers in place.

Other high pressure signs will be that the face of your primers are heavily flattened with little or probably NO "edge" to the primer... I.E., the metal covering the face of the primer flattens out so hard that it literally crushes itself into what would normally be a slight "opening" between the outside circumference of the primer and the inside "wall" of the primer pocket.  If not such slight distance exists, this is a SURE indicator that your loads are too hot and are developing too much pressure... a DANGEROUS SITUATION!!!

With higher pressures, you may find that the tooling marks on your rifle's bolt-face are engraving themselves on the face of the primer.  If experiencing extremely heavy chamber pressures, the edges around the firing pin "dent" will "pucket" and a slight "ridge" will form around the firing pin dent on the rear of the primer.

With DANGEROUSLY high chamber pressures, the firing pin "dent" will become inverted and become a "nipple" rising up from the face of the primer and extruding up into the hole in the bolt-face in which the firing pin is held.  This is a sign of a load that is about to "blow" up the rifle.

For thing is FOR SURE... you NEED to get to the bottom of this situation and find out WHY your primer pockets are expanding.  Obviously, high pressure is one cause... or your rifle may have a lot of wear in the bolt face or chamber and the base of your cartridge cases may be expanding due to wear.  A good gunsmith can measure these things and give you an "answer".

Meanwhile, if you are exceeding the "MAXIMUM LOAD" listed in your reloading manual... you  must IMMEDIATELY cease using that load and those cartridge cases since any case with an expanded primer pocket is "junk".

However, KEEP a few cases to show the gunsmith so he can see and measure them for expansion.

You have a potentially dangerous situation on your hands... make your decisions WISELY.  Your eyesight, limbs and life are much more important and valuable than a few rifle cartridges!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline kyote

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2006, 02:22:21 PM »
How loose can primer pockets be and still be safe???

Not loose at all..
my huntin rifle is safe from confiscation only while my battle rifle protects it.

Offline Goober

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Re: Primer Pockets
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2006, 08:06:37 PM »
Thanks for all the Help, Will order new brass, I'm sure that will fix the problem..
Just so you'll know i could push primers out with a toothe pick, so they got pitched.