american pioneer powder...pros , cons???

[Mack in N.C.]

hello,..i ave been using pyrodex and now pyrodex select in my renegade.....now i have added a balck diamond so i am thinking about using american pioneer power in the b/d.....anyone have any positives or negatives to say??.....they say iot is not as corrosive....is this true??...thanks mack

[Redhawk1]

pro, easy to clean up

con, I could never get any good groups with it.

[Biff Mayhem]

Nothing wrong with APP -- as long as no lubes are in the bore when you use it. Also - the APP powder is not heavy bullet-friendly in many MLs. Otherwise it appears fine.

You may get the urge to try it in the Renegade also. But the grains are so large that it may provide non-continuous, non-instant ignition in many sidelocks.

[Smokepole cowboy]

Every bit as accurate as triple 7 with no crud ring.  I could not load a second shot with triple 7, and I can load 3 shots easily with the APP.

[plannerman]

Agree you can't have any lube, cleaner, etc... in the barrel or the powder gets fussy.  Tried the sticks and not too impressed with anything other than clean up.  Loose powder is likely the way to go with APP.

[Redhawk1]

Wow where did you guys find that AP powder??? I have had 4 other friends try the AP powder sticks and they all had bad groups. I went to my gun smith last week and he gave me about a 3/4 bottle of AP sticks and said he could not get it to shoot better than a 4 inch group out of an Encore or a H&R sidekick. Well when I left the shop with the powder in hand, my buddies and I lit the pellets on fire and watched the quick flash. Now that was the best I seen AP work.

Smokepole cowbow, I have been using triple 7 in 5 of my Encore barrels and I can load more than 6 or 7 shots without a problem and no swabbing between shots.
I found it a little harder than when the barrel is clean but still doable. AP is junk in my book.

[Biff Mayhem]

Agreed! Stay away from the APP sticks.

[marylandeer]

I shoot A.P.P. out of Knight disc elete 50 Cal. and I love the stuff. I shoot the 3fg loose and the 50 grain sticks and both are very accurate for me...
With 100 grain by Volume of the 3fg powder I 'm putting just about all of my shots through the same hole at 75 yards and at 100 yards in an inch or under.
Now with the pellets it's not quite as good but very close. I don't start seeing a difference with the pellets until I get to one hundred yards then groups open up to about two inches.
I shoot the 250 grain Barnes Expanders.
I shoot about 5 shots and for the hech of it run a patch with alchohol on it and all I get on the patch is a lttle gray dust.     

[Smokepole cowboy]

My Encore must be bad then. 
One shot only with triple 7.  I have tried to load a second shot, and had to use a hammer and a range rod to seat it.  And the accuracy with the APP is every bit as good as with the triple 7 without all of the trouble.

[herb40]

I shoot A.P.P. out of Knight disc elete 50 Cal. and I love the stuff. I shoot the 3fg loose and the 50 grain sticks and both are very accurate for me...
With 100 grain by Volume of the 3fg powder I 'm putting just about all of my shots through the same hole at 75 yards and at 100 yards in an inch or under.
Now with the pellets it's not quite as good but very close. I don't start seeing a difference with the pellets until I get to one hundred yards then groups open up to about two inches.
I shoot the 250 grain Barnes Expanders.
I shoot about 5 shots and for the hech of it run a patch with alchohol on it and all I get on the patch is a lttle gray dust.

     
       Shoot your 100 grain load through a chronograph you will be surprised how slow and how inconsistant your velocities are. These large velocity differences will have a great effect upon your accuracy at 100yds and over.

[marylandeer]

Velocities don't concern me when it comes to my muzzleloader. As long as I keep shooting M.O.A. or better why should I care how fast the bullets are going? Every deer I have shot with this load was dead before the smoked cleared. They didn't seem to mind how slow that 250 grain expander went through their chest. Now maybe if I was shooting 200 yards I would pay closer attention to the velocities but I shoot mainly under 100.

[slave]

Last fall I seen AP sticks or I should say parts of the sticks fly 30yds or more down range land then smolder for 30 secounds or so. Now this was my first and only encounter with AP. I do not know if this jug had drawn mositure or if the product acts like that. It was a new container just opend that day. It was cold but dry day no rain or snow. After seeing this happen on two or three shots, I converted the guy who I was asssiting to 7. We assumed it would have been a waste of time to mess around the AP. No way we could have worked up a load and sighted him in with that powder. It was kind of neat to watch though.

I have never seen any in powder form. 

[Critter]

I don't use it in my muzzleloaders but I have used a lot of it in cartridges.  The FFFg is the only thing I found that was worth a darn.  FFg is ok but the velocities were inconsistent.  I have shot up to 100 rounds with out cleaning the bore of a lever action.  Even back when it was CleanShot the pellets were worthless.  We bought some for the shop and made the dealer take them back, worthless.  It is rough on brass if you don't get it cleaned up quick.

I now use 777 in my cartridges and frontstuffers.  Better velocities, just as easy to clean up and not so hard on my brass. 

[daddywpb]

I went thru a lot of trouble to get it and was disappointed. It didn't leave black powder residue, just some white gritty crap that was harder to remove. My targets looked like shotgun patterns. I did not try the loose powder, only the sticks, but I gave the rest of the bottle away after 5 shots. I'll stick with Pyrodex.

[davestewart38]

I tried American Pioneer 2F and 3F in several of my rifles with a variety of bullets.I couldn't shoot a decent group with any of it.My rifles shoot very accurately with 3F triple se7en or Pyrodex.

[jgalar]

I have limited experience with AP, but from my results it looks like it is going to be the powder I use from now on.

I have a 32 caliber that I was trying out different powders in. The AP gave at least as good of groups as pyrodex or 777. The bore has to be clean of any lubes and you can't use any. I swab the bore with alcohol before doing any shooting. I shoot a charge or two without a ball then load the first ball with spit lube. All the next shots are made with the patch cut at the muzzle and loaded dry. The patched ball is easy to load dry. I have shot 30-40 shots without any cleaning between shots and no change in accuracy. 32s foul easily and I can't shoot without cleaning with the other powders. End of day cleanup was easy.

I tried AP in a new 1861 36 caliber Colt revolver. I cleaned the cylider and bore with alcohol and fired a cylinder without a ball. I noticed while loading that the AP powder compresses much more than pyrodex or 777. Again I didn't use any lube. I got better grouping with the AP than with the other powders I have used. I was able to shoot the gun quite a bit without any binding or need to clean. I have a Remington 1858 in 36 caliber that I can only shoot a few cylinders with pyrodex before it binds up - I need to try the AP in it.

I tried shooting AP in a 50 caliber, but I was using a lube and cleanup was a pain.  I have about 10 lbs of Pyrodex, 777, and Clear Shot that I need to shoot up so won't be using the AP in the big bores for awhile.

I can't comment on the big bores, but for small bores the AP is great stuff.

[poncaguy]

I use 120 grains of FFG AP........easy to reload and easy to clean..........shoots to about same point of aim as 3 777 pellets in my Omega.......

[Flatshooter]

I had lots of problems keeping a decent string with 240gr. dead centers out of my T/C BD when I tried the APP sticks.
Now when APP was originally cylinder shapped I had alot of success.

Now I use FFg 777 loose in 100grns or 2- 50grn 777 pellets and both work well out of my BD. I do have the habit of swabbing every other shot with a spit patch so the crud/hard loading issue is mute for me.

The remaining square pellets I had I gave to a friend who is shooting a .50cal Optima with 240grn Eliete Extreme (the hollow point version I think of the dead center bullet) and he was shooting 2" groups with this set up last Sunday. Go figure right?

Try it, you never know if your smokepole is gonna like em!

-Flatshooter