Mod. 97 or 83?

[Sverre A.]

If you should buy a FA tomorrow in cal. 357 with 7,5" barrel: 

Would you go for a 97 or 83?

Why 97 and why 83?

[Lee Robinson]

My question is this...why the 83? Unless you are into silhouette/competition.

The model 97 357 mag will shoot really hot loads, it is a 6 shot, it is lighter weight.

[scott williams]

i bought the model 83. here is why
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt353.htm

[Sverre A.]

<The model 97 357 mag will shoot really hot loads, it is a 6 shot, it is lighter weight.

And what do you mean with "really hot loads"?

[Lee Robinson]

I don't claim to be an expert, but sources I trust tell me that once you exceed 1400 fps in handguns generally accuracy goes down, and with the 97 frame being able to handle super mag calibers the only real benefit I see (again, given my limited knowledge on the subject) would be the 353 loads that are really hot. And being those really hot loads generally far (at least 100 fps) over the 1400 fps catagory...It seems to me like one would be robbing Peter (accuracy) to pay Paul (power). And it doesn't matter how fast one misses.

My reasoning may not be accurate, but the super mag seems to top out on the apex of what one could expect from a 357...which can be handled by the 97 frame.

up to 180 grains at 1400 fps by Buffalo Bore.

[WL44]

Sverre,

I've been thinking about it some more...

It's like I said handy and "tough enough" would make the 97 my choice were I a one .357 guy.

Maybe you should post the ballistics that you hope to achieve and get comments on that? The Mod. 97 will get you all the performance ever intended in a .357 Magnum, whilst the Mod. 83 will probably get you all the performance envisaged in a .357 Max, or Supermag.

I'm inclined to think 180gr lead at 1300, or jackets at 1200 is very achievable in a 6" 97 from what I've read, maybe a bit more (as I said before I have an 83 so can't comment from personal experience on a 97).

Also, if I'm going for handy, I'd probably favour a barrel length shorter than 7.5" and no optics (or something small like the Doctor / Optima style you seem to favour).

If you want to shoot really long range, or turn a .357 into more of a "hunting" calibre (i.e. stretch the hunting range, or larger antelope), then an 83 with full power 180gr, or better still, 200gr, or 215gr, would get my nod.

As I said if you have bigger calibres, stretching the performance of a .357 is unnecessary for you as you have larger bore sizes that you can simply load moderately (like .45 Colt from your .454) and you can get a nice, handy, accurate and "good enough" .357 in the mod. 97, rather than a big heavy and "more cumbersome" 83.

I like the .357 vey much. And for a long time I was very happy with what I could do from my 6" Colt King Cobra - I still am.

[haroldclark]

I have loaded and fired 38 Specials, 357 Magnums and 357 Maximums to the recorded tune of 20,397 rounds. 

Using my Neco Quickoad Software, it is noted that the limiting factor of the 357 magnum cartridge is the amount of powder it will hold.  IMR 4227, Blue Dot and H4227 are some of my favorite powders for the Magnum and the Maximum loadings.
Example of limited powder space with a 180 Grain RCBS cast bullet:  11.2 grains of Blue Dot fills the case 100% with the bullet seated into the case 4/10 ".  The maximum velocity from a 6" barrel will be 1301 fps.

13.1 gr of H4227 will provide 1070 fps at 100% filled and similar is the IMR4227 loading.

I shoot 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum loads in Thompson Center Contenders with barrel lengths from 10 to 14" .  Better velocities can be obtained with a closed breach and longer barrels.

I suggest that if you want Maximum velocities from a 357, buy a Maximum instead of a Magnum.  No matter how strong you gun is, the velocity is limited by powder capacity and barrel length.  However, barrel length in a revolver wil change velocity very little.  Maybe 50 to 60 fps if you go from 6" to 7" and about 150 fps when you go to a 10" revolver barrel.

Harold Clark

[Sverre A.]

I will mostly use the .357 in competition where you have to "empty" the gun within 8-10 sec.

I feel that a rubber grip will give me the "same grip" - not so with a SA`s grip of woods - that is also a reason why I consider mod. 83.

 

[palgeno]

Severre A.---grip size is smaller on the 97 than the 83. I actually shoot my 83 better than my 97 because the 83 fits my hand better ---and my 83 is in .454 while my 97 is in .22lr! I use a glove for the 97 to make it fill my and and I have only average size hands. Had I known this, I would have gotten the 83 in .22lr.   Gene

[MarkH]

The 252 makes a dandy understudy to the 454 ... particularly if set up just the same. 

[WL44]

Harold,


I certainly don't have your experience with the .357" calibres, but I've shot them a fair bit.

Just a quick one, but I'm sure you know anyway, but I just wanted it said.... the nose length for the .357 Mod 83 FA is longer than in most "std" .357 Mags, because of the long cylinder. You can order moulds accordingly and Hornady's XTP's for example have 2 crimp grooves to allow for seating further out for the Mod. 83. Accordingly powder capacity is increased somewhat.

Also of course, there's "filling" a case and compressing a charge - not that I'm simply recommending it, you need to work up the load, but I'm of the opinion that even a std. length .357 Mag load can be developed to be capable of better ballistics safely in a Mod 83 than other "std" .357 Mags, in which they would be "overloads". Of course these loads would still be above .357 Mag specs.

"The 252 makes a dandy understudy to the 454 ... particularly if set up just the same" - I would agree, but the weight and balance of the smaller calibres on the Mod 83 frame is different. Same external size, smaller holes = more steel = more weight.

Wim

[MarkH]

The trimmed down cylinder, tapered barrel, and drilled hammer on the 252 makes a lot of difference ... I would have agreed with you before I spent a substantial amount of time with one.  Now it is on my must-have list.

[WL44]

All Freedom Arms are on my "must have" list.  . unfortuantely they probably won't make it off the list and into the gun safe!