223 ammo for my contender question

[tigmaned]

guys,
i have a 23" bull barrel in 223 rem on the way. and was wondering what grain bullet its going like better.

[azmike]

What is the rate of twist?

My issued M4 has a 1 in 7 twist, and does well with 55-70 grainers.

I also would be interested in knowing what works best in the Contender.  I'm mulling over a .223 barrel for my G2 as well (I like the 6.5 JDJ better, but my time is limited, and don't want to spend all of it forming cases and reloading).

[BNoz01]

The older 223 Contender barrels have a 1/12 twist, and I'm assuming the newer G2 have the same twist.  With that twist rate you're limited to about 60 grain bullets, so find some nice 55 grainer's if you're buying the ammo.

My Contender's & Encores love 52 grain Berger Moly bullets (Varget poweder / Win cases).  If you want incredible accuracy, then try to 52 Berger bullet.

Good luck,

B. Noz.

[Davemuzz]

Last year I bot a T\C factory .223 23" bull barrel with 1\12 twist from Midway. After about a month of testing various powder\bullet combo's I hit on one that was incredibly accurate.

I am shooting the Nosler Balistic tip 40 grain over 28.5 grains of BL-C2. This load will give me clover leafs at 100 yards!! The longest groundhog hit this year has been 325 yards. Believe me, if I miss a groundhog, it's not the gun.

Now, I have a Leupold VX-II 4-12 50mm mounted on this Contender. But it is one accurate gun\load.

I also shoot the 50 grain Nosler and the 55 grain Nosler using BL-C2 powder. I use the max loads and they have the same POI that the 40 grainer's have,...they just spread a little more than the 40 grain'ers.

Good luck in your load development and shooting.

Dave

[tigmaned]

i am looking for a scope to put on it right now.
one is a leupold 4-12 by 40mm but i wasn't sure if i wanted a little more power then that?? the other is a weaver 15X.
so my barrel is a newer one from a G2 contender in 23" bull so its a 1-12 twist. thats pretty fast.
55 grainers are easy to find!!

[Davemuzz]

My .223 Contender is set up to shoot groundhogs out to 400 yards. Where I live 400 yards is about the maximum your gonna get on a groundhog shot. The 12X power is pleanty of zoom at that range. I did a lot of asking when I bot that scope and the response's I got was essentially the higher the power the more the pronounced "shake" you are going to see.

So, basically is come's down to what you are going to use the scope\rifle for. If it's primarly bench shooting, then a higher magnification is probably in order. But if your going to use the gun in the field, then you may want to consider less of a magnification.

BTW, for what it's worth I just bot an Encore in 243 and I bot a Leupold Rifleman scope in 3x9 40mm to go on the barrel. I gotta tell you the Rifleman is a nice scope for the money, but it's no where near the VX-II 50mm 4x12 scope. Of course, the price is no where near either. But it is true that you get what you pay for.

Dave.

[Grumulkin]

The 1:12 twist 223 T/C barrels will not stabilize heavier bullets except, I've had good success with Speer 70 grain semi-spitzers (less than 1 MOA with a 222, a 223 and a 22-250).  If you stay at 55 grains or less, you should be fine with other bullets.

[tigmaned]

i am in the market for some 223 rem rcbs dies. and i was wondering if i should get FL or SB dies. or dose it matter for a single shot like a contender?
Thanks.

[Davemuzz]

tigmaned,

I don't have any RCBS small based dies, but It's my understanding that these dies are made to load ammo for the ar-15's, so that the ammo for these semi-aoto's will load without sticking. I also understand that you can use these dies to load for "regular" rifles. But, again, I have no experience with these dies.

I use the Lee collet dies for my .223. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=776391

The Lee three die set has the collet die, as well as the full length die when your brass sholder gets too long for the chamber.  I find that neck sizing and no crimp gives very good accuracy.

Dave

[tigmaned]

i have reloaded alot of straight shells like 45acp, 357mag. but bottle neck reloading is new to me and why i was wondering the diff from the s/b set and the f/l set i have seen. i think rcbs makes the same set up as three die set you are talking about as the lee. so maybe i'll look for them in 223.
went up to the big Cabela's in PA last weekend, really cool place!! but only picked up some Winchester 55gr 223rem to start off with and will save the brass to reload with. i wanted to leave with more but been spending to much on other toys!
Dave Thanks the help!!

[Davemuzz]

tigmaned,

If you havn't bot bullets yet, you may want to consider starting out using 40 grain bullets. The little 40 grainer seems to give me the tighest groups out of th 40, 50, and 55 grain bullets that I load.

As far as dies are concerned, I think RCBS makes a neck size only die, but I think that single die cost as much as the Lee 3 die set. However, I have no experience with the RCBS neck size die so I can't tell you if it is the cat's meow or not.

Dave.

[tigmaned]

i got 55gr for right now. i will try others like you are suggesting. 40 gr huh?

[Sourdough]

I have a .223 Contender barrel that my wife bought me when TC first made the carbine in the mid 80s.  It is the only .223 that I own that will shoot 60 and 70 grain bullets well.  I've never tried shooting for a group, when I started shooting it if I hit a 4" pie plate at 100 yards I was happy.  Today I can still hit that pie plate at 100 yards, and it has accounted for numerous foxes, and a few cayotes.  I do not use a scope on it I have a peep site.  If it is going to be farther than 100 yards I generally try and use something else.  I carry the Carbine mounted to the handlebars of my snowmachine for fast and up close shots.

[Davemuzz]

SD,

I thought, (and memory is always a bad thing to rely upon) that the older 223 barrels had a different twist rate in them. I cant remember.....faster=better for the heaver bullets or slower = better.  I always have to look this stuff up. (I wish I could just snap in memory chips like a computer...like into my ear or sumpin)

You may have a different twist rate in your barrel...maybe?  Did you ever check it?

Dave.

[tigmaned]

i found this on google
One of the first persons to try to develop a formula for calculating the correct rate of twist for firearms, was George Greenhill, a mathematics lecturer at Emanuel College in Cambridge, England. His formula is based on the rule that the twist required in calibers equals 150 divided by the length of the bullet in calibers. This can be simplified to:

Twist = 150 X D2/L

Where:
D = bullet diameter in inches
L= bullet length in inches
150 = a constant

This formula had limitations, but worked well up to and in the vicinity of about 1,800 f.p.s. For higher velocities most ballistic experts suggest substituting 180 for 150 in the formula. The twist formulas used in the Load From a Disk program, featured at this web site, uses a modified Greenhill formula in which the "150" constant is replaced by a series of equations that allow corrections for muzzle velocity from 1,100 to 4,000 fps.

The Greenhill formula is simple and easy to apply and gives a useful approximation to the desired twist. The Greenhill formula was based on a bullet with a specific gravity of 10.9, which is about right for the jacketed lead core bullet. Notice that bullet weight does not directly enter into the equation. For a given caliber, the heavier the bullet the longer the bullet will be. So bullet weight affects bullet length and bullet length is used in the formula.

To measure the twist of a barrel, use a cleaning rod and a tight patch. Start the patch down the barrel and mark the rod at the muzzle. Push in the rod slowly until it has made one revolution, and then make a second mark on the rod at the muzzle. The distance between marks is the twist of your barrel.
i found this on google
To see how this works out, assume you bought a .222 Remington rifle and you measured the twist rate as described above. The twist was 1 in 14. You have two .224 bullets you want to use, the 70-grain Speer SPS and the 50-grain Hornady SX. The Speer bullet measures .812 inches in length and the Hornady measures .520 inches. Using the formula above we calculate the following twist rate:

Speer 70-grain: 1 in 9
Hornady 50-grain: 1 in 14

These calculations show that the 50-grain bullet will be stabilized, but the 70-grain won’t. Sure enough, when you try these bullets out, the 50-grain shoots ¾ MOA while the 70-grain won’t group on the paper at 50 yards. Twist is important!

[tigmaned]

Current Thompson Center Factory and Custom Shop Twist Rates
  To the best of our knowledge, these are the current twist rates in Thompson Center barrels that come as factory standards and from the TC Custom Shop (Fox Ridge).

Main T/C
Menu All 17 Centerfire 1:10
All 22 Centerfire  1:12
All 6mm/.243  1:10
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All 6.5mm/.264  1:8
All .277 Caliber  1:10
All 7mm/.284  1:9
All 30 Caliber 1:10
All 338 Caliber  1:10
All .375 Caliber  1:12