Author Topic: A & H mountain gun or Lyman GPR? (Read 1573 times)

shilo · « **on:** August 01, 2006, 08:48:20 AM »

Kind of thinking about maybe getting a traditional muzzleloader again. Started out with a TC Renagade .54. When inlines started becoming available I switched to one and sold my Renagade - cheap. Couldn't hardly give it away, everyone was going to inlines. Now,about 18yrs later, I'm kind of thinking about a sidelock again. I was going to look into the Austin & Halleck Mountain gun, beautiful looking and not as much as I'd thought they'd be. But, then I read a thread on here about how bad the guns are coming from them and how bad their customer service is. Are they really that bad? Is the service really that bad? How do they stay open? The other one I'm thinking about is the Lyman GPR Hunter. Haven't heard anything bad about it and most people seem pleased with theirs. This one is alittle different than the other two, but I saw a deerstalker in stainless that looked like it would be a handy and practical muzzleloader. Any other makes or models I should take a look at? Thanks.

sharps4590 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 01, 2006, 09:41:11 AM »

I have no experience with A & H but have read or heard most of the same things you have regarding their later rifles. Neither do I know anything about anyone's stainless barrelled and camo, plastic stocked modern semi-muzzleloaders. That isn't my area of interest.

I owned, shot several deer and won a few matches with a Lyman GPR in 54 cal. and have nothing but praise for the rifle and Lyman. The only reason I sold it is that I upgraded to a considerably nicer and more historically correct Hawken. The new rifle shoots only a little better than the Lyman but it sure looks a lot better! For the money they Lyman is hard to beat and is more correct in looks than most production rifles. I never had the first problem with mine. I'd stay with the round ball twist and 54 cal.

TC's are good rifles, no one can deny or dispute that and anyone who does is simply showing their ignorance. But, they don't look right to me and calling any of them a Hawken is near blasphemy.

I hear and read mixed reviews about Traditions but most folks seem satisfied with them. That company may merit some investigation. They remind me a lot of the old CVA's.

If ya wanna spend a lot of money and wait for a custom or semi-custom rifle, the sky's the limit.

Vic

Trapper-Jack · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2006, 10:52:07 AM »

I have to agree with sharps4590 and recomend the Lyman GPR. I have one in a .50 with a round ball barrel and would recomend it to anyone. For the money I don't think it can be beat. I've also won a few matches and shot a couple of mule deer with mine. I've held and shot a few custom rifles and I don't think I'd trade the Lyman for one. It just suits me.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2006, 02:17:12 PM »

I have the A&H Mountain rifle, and like it a lot. It developed a crack in the stock, and they replaced the whole rifle with one that looks even better than the first one. They also sent me a powder flask and measure for my trouble. I think A&H are trying to get it right with quality controle, and will go a long way to make the customer happy. That said, I would handle and inspect the rifle before purchase. The Deerstalker you mentioned has a fast twist, but the standard Deerstalker has a 24" barrel with a 1 in 48" twist that shoots round balls very well. I have been using one for the past 15 years, and would not part with it.

lostid · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2006, 02:52:01 PM »

Juding only by your total posts on this site,,and deriving your experiance from them,,,,,the Lyman GPR would/could be the best bet for how do I say?"" "an experianced novice?" The GPR/GPH allows proper barrel twist, and interchange-ability. For some one seaching for traditional cap-lock style shooting and the option for.(with gph fast-twist barrels minnie or maxi ball shooting with proper accuracy),. I hope that in your "studies" for what option of hunting/shooting style you prefer, you try "fit" of the two gun's you have listed.
A trip to any nation wide dealer of firearms will allow you to handle and feel for comfort both of the gun's you have listed and those listed by others.
As sharp's posted T/C is a good gun,,and he also said he's won a few matches with a GPR. I shoot a Lyman//not a great plains model. I have made meat with my gun,,I have lost matches to great plains models. I can and will say a T/C has never shot better than my lyman,,and I have owned T/C.

A/H ?,, well thats a good gun. Are they better? Yes. Are they for the novice? No. If ya cain't clean or study proper prb combos A/H ain't for you. If you like fit and have time too study and perfect your shooting, then a better gun might be the better choice

Naphtali · « **Reply #5 on:** August 03, 2006, 08:00:16 AM »

I have experience with a left-handed GPRs, one a .50-caliber flintlock, the other a .54-caliber cap lock. I no longer own the flintlock.

Their cap lock GPR is acceptable -- for me quality range is either "acceptable" or "unacceptable." The flintlock is unacceptable

The weakest feature of the GPRs are the locks. Both locks feature coil springs rather than "V" springs and stamped lock work mixed with castings. Locks are as cheaply made as is possible. In the cap lock, this makes zero difference, except, perhaps, aesthetically. If you are right-hand shooter, L & R Lock Company makes RPL replacement locks for the GPR that are excellent. The downside is that if you use an RPL, the GPR's attractive price disappears.

Another assembly that is twitchy is the set trigger. Adjustments are difficult to maintain -- that is, get set and unset trigger weights set, and settings will drift in a short time. This appears to be caused by the trigger parts' tolerances or, perhaps, geometry.

The flintlock I owned was of such poor quality that I called Lyman. They responded well. "Send it to us and we'll replace it at no cost." And they did, except that I asked for the cap lock I presently own.
***
One nice feature is their stock being European walnut rather than American black walnut. More expensive, denser wood with pleasant shape and contour.
***
An acquaintance in Florida acquired a flintlock GPR. He replaced lock and trigger, reshaped and refinished the stock. This is a beautiful rifle that shoots well. But if you include time and materials in his purchase price, he would have done much better buying a limited production rifle or a Chambers kit.

shilo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2006, 02:04:13 PM »

Naphtali, "limited production rifle" ? Any recommendations? Chambers kit ? Do they have a web address?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2006, 02:15:47 PM »

Here ya go, Shilo...

http://www.flintlocks.com/

lostid · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2006, 03:05:46 PM »

Quote from: Naphtali on August 03, 2006, 08:00:16 AM

An acquaintance in Florida acquired a flintlock GPR. He replaced lock and trigger, reshaped and refinished the stock. This is a beautiful rifle that shoots well. But if you include time and materials in his purchase price, he would have done much better buying a limited production rifle or a Chambers kit.

Then? Why buy a GPR? Why not go custom form the start? Gosh, I'm sorry, I thought the topic was Austin Hallic/ Lyman GPR?

Biff Mayhem · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2006, 09:47:21 PM »

Quote from: shilo on August 01, 2006, 08:48:20 AM

Kind of thinking about maybe getting a traditional muzzleloader again. Started out with a TC Renagade .54. When inlines started becoming available I switched to one and sold my Renagade - cheap. Couldn't hardly give it away, everyone was going to inlines. Now,about 18yrs later, I'm kind of thinking about a sidelock again. I was going to look into the Austin & Halleck Mountain gun, beautiful looking and not as much as I'd thought they'd be. But, then I read a thread on here about how bad the guns are coming from them and how bad their customer service is. Are they really that bad? Is the service really that bad? How do they stay open? The other one I'm thinking about is the Lyman GPR Hunter. Haven't heard anything bad about it and most people seem pleased with theirs. This one is alittle different than the other two, but I saw a deerstalker in stainless that looked like it would be a handy and practical muzzleloader. Any other makes or models I should take a look at? Thanks.

I would of kept the Renegade. All the repairs are free for as long as you own the T/C product. You can also get a slew of aftermarket Green Mountain barrels for the Renegade that slip right in. You will not find a warranty like that with Lyman and Austin Halleck.

shilo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2006, 01:53:55 PM »

Hindsight is 20/20. 18yrs ago I was thinking here's something I'm never going to shoot again. All it's going to do is just sit there and collect dust. Might as well sell it and put the money towards something I'm going to use. Well, now I've just been thinking it might be fun to shoot one again. I really liked the way the A&H looks, but I've just heard so many conflicting reports on them that I don't know what to think of them.

lostid · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2006, 02:09:02 PM »

Quote from: lostid on August 01, 2006, 02:52:01 PM

I hope that in your "studies" for what option of hunting/shooting style you prefer, you try "fit" of the two gun's you have listed.
I can and will say a T/C has never shot better than my lyman,,and I have owned T/C.

My first was a Renegade also,,20sum yrs ago,,but it was spring tyme,,hunting season was closed. I was a starving student,,alas,,hind-sight

Please shilo,,drive someplace to "fit-n-feel" these guns. Then you'll know. ain't nuthin wrong with them AH,,but they fit differnt than GPR's. that I know. Either will shoot better than your long lost Renegade..That I KNOW also.

lakota · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2006, 03:43:10 PM »

I was trying to decide between a new A/H Mountain gun and a used Renegade last winter. Being the cheap skate that I am I bought the .54 Renegade . It was an older model with double set triggers. Took it to the range and it shot horrible. Turns out after scouring the barrel out it was pitted like nobody's business. I bought a 32" .54 GM prb barrel and it was the best move I ever made it is a phenomenal rifle. I will say that the A/H was a beauty- it was a flintlock, the only thing that turned me off was the fact that it was a 1-28" twist, I dont understand why someone would want to shoot modern bullets from a flint lock

. All that said I think my Renegade will be my go to deer rifle. I can't wait until ML season. I am so excited about this rifle that I applied for four controlled ML hunts. I hope I get drawn for at least one.

Biff Mayhem · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2006, 05:34:35 AM »

Quote from: lakota on August 04, 2006, 03:43:10 PM

I was trying to decide between a new A/H Mountain gun and a used Renegade last winter. Being the cheap skate that I am I bought the .54 Renegade . It was an older model with double set triggers. Took it to the range and it shot horrible. Turns out after scouring the barrel out it was pitted like nobody's business. I bought a 32" .54 GM prb barrel and it was the best move I ever made it is a phenomenal rifle. I will say that the A/H was a beauty- it was a flintlock, the only thing that turned me off was the fact that it was a 1-28" twist, I dont understand why someone would want to shoot modern bullets from a flint lock . All that said I think my Renegade will be my go to deer rifle. I can't wait until ML season. I am so excited about this rifle that I applied for four controlled ML hunts. I hope I get drawn for at least one.

Well said Lakota!

Buying a used Renegade for around 100 bucks at an auction shop -- then selling-off the old, tired original barrel & purchasing one of many Green Mountain barrels for it is a smart-smart investment.

shilo · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2006, 09:28:19 AM »

That is a good idea.

sharps4590 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2006, 10:48:31 AM »

I just went to a web site and looked at an A&H Mountain Rifle and there's no doubt in my mind the Lyman would be my choice. The A & H just isn't correct. I'm from Missouri and the A & H says it's made in Weston, Missouri, north of KC, and I would still take the Lyman GPR with the round ball twist.

You could also look at Track of the Wolf's kits and I believe Matt Avance of TVM offers kits as does Jack garner of TVA.

If nothing else you definitely have a lot of places to look and a very pleasant choice to make.

Vic

lakota · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2006, 10:25:30 PM »

Shilo, I am back to extoll the virtues of this Green Mountain Barrel on my Renegade. I was at the range today sitting on my butt drilling a milk jug at 110 yards shot after shot. My Renegade is like a point and click tool now. Used Renegades are not hard to find in my area. They seem to go for $150-$200. I paid $191 for my barrel, and $200 for the rifle, $391 bucks for the package and I am still $75.00 less than the A&H I was looking at. If you liked the fit of your old Renegade, you cant go wrong. Or if you like fancy brass you could go the same route with a T/C Hawken.

Whatever you decide, enjoy it, front-stuffers are a great hobby. I rarely shoot my cartridge guns anymore.

Frenchy · « **Reply #17 on:** September 26, 2006, 10:00:17 PM »

Being left-handed, the GPR is the only choice of the two. Which is why I'm getting one!!

slayer · « **Reply #18 on:** September 27, 2006, 05:17:58 AM »

I have an older .50 Cap Renegade and she shoots wonderfull. A pitted barrel can ruin an firearm and it makes it seam that that brand is a bad shooter, but it was the actual pitting that made it that way. Buy a new GM barrel from Track of the Wolf for a Renegade and keep her clean and you will use it for a lifetime!! Jack.

lakota · « **Reply #19 on:** September 27, 2006, 03:25:45 PM »

After buying this my used Renegade, finding it's barrel to be pitted and replacing it w/ a Green Mountain, I have become borderline obsessive-compulsive about keeping it clean. I swab and swab with piping hot soapy water until my patches come out lily-white. Then I take a funnel and risnse the barrel out with hot water. Then run several drying patches. I then coat the bore with a high quality gun oil. Before heading to the range I swab the bore out with rubbing alcohol to remove as much of the oil as possible. I have yet to have any of the fouling problems I have heard others have with using a petroleum based product with Black Powder. I also get no rust between cleanings!

captchee · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2006, 03:34:43 AM »

H&A i have read are closing up thier shop ? may wish to check into it

Rum River · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:36:01 AM »

I'm afraid I haven't shot any of the A&H's, but I have a lot of lead down range from 5 different Lymans. Four of them are .50 cal. with round ball twist, the other a .54 Hunter with the 32" twist.

All of the .50's shoot extremely well. One of them is a flint, and it's the most accurate of any of them, last year it produced a cloverleaf at 100 yards with the original sights. That load was 80 grs. FFg Goex, .018" patch with Mink oil lube, and a Hornady .495" swaged ball.

The .54 I'm still working with. It shoots round ball into one hole at 50 yards, but I'm still searching for a conical combination at 100. I wish now I would have bought the roundball twist.

I like the Lyman rifles a lot. None have broken down, I've been able to use the original locks and adjust the triggers with no problems, and they have retained their accuracy. Three of them get used by our 4-H team from May through August every year, so they get a lot of use.

slayer · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:47:16 AM »

I was at Gander Mountain the other day and they had a new A&H .50 Flinter with the wood and browned barrel. It looks great from a distance, but then I picked it up amd handled it and looked it over really well. My opinion is it is very front heavy, the quality control is horrible and over priced. I wouldn`t pay that much for one. Jack.

Centennial · « **Reply #23 on:** October 07, 2006, 01:18:25 PM »

Okay, I’m a little late but I’ll pass on my experience. I have had a .54 GPR that I built from a kit in 1990 and have loved it! It’s an odd twist that they don’t make/offer anymore; I think 1:48?. It shoots round ball and TC Maxibals great. If I could get another, I would in an instant. This one was a gift from my ex and even still, I cant bring myself to find a replacement…for the gun. I solved the “set creep” with a dot of fingernail polish. Since it’s a hunting gun, I replaced the original iron sights with standard bead and buckhorn that more closely match my other open sighted rifles. Have fun, I sure have. Centennial