Author Topic: "break barrel air rifles"???????? (Read 15261 times)

Darrell Davis · « **on:** August 29, 2006, 06:24:58 AM »

::)Morn'n shooters,

I expect this is an old and well hashed subject, but please bare with this Ol'feller as he tries to gain a bit of know how with air guns.

I am still back in the days of the Red Rider (wood stock) that I slept with one CHRISTmas back about 55 years ago.

My thought about what I am calling "break Barrel" are rifles is that they must be about one step above junk.

Just how can anything which cocks by moving the barrel in an arc and back, have any possibility of putting the pellet where you want it? Now put one half of the sight system on each side of the hinge and or mount a scope on the non-moving portion of the rifle and how can it possibly work with any degree of persision?

I tried a friends "side cock" air rifle and can't say I was impressed. Kind of like a flint lock, only instead of SsssPppptBANG it was SSSPppppppprongspt. Didn't like the feel!

However, I would like something I can shoot in the shop during the winter etc. and wish it to shoot with reasonable consistancy and NOT need to use CO2 in possible.

How about a bit of info from you Ol'hand in the air rifle game?

Keep em coming!

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2006, 01:00:23 PM »

well you can look at pump-up guns like the daisy 22x,800 , crosman 2100,2200 or if you don't like pumping then the crosman quest 1000,daisy 1000s or a gamo if you have the cash should do. the crosman quest 1000 , dasiy 1000 and the gamos are all break-Barrels but break Barrel just is with they are called because the barrel hinges down to load and cock the gun. break Barrel are very good a lot can get hole in hole or 1'' groups at 30-50 yards. If you want to see how good they are go to http://home.comcast.net/~pelletgunn/fel.htm
and you will see these guns can kill pdog out to 70 yards and coons at 30-50 yards. i use my 2200 and it shoot well at 40 yards and i have killed lot of game (from starling to coons) at that range and also this site http://www.reviewcentre.com/consumer_reviews54.html
has all the info you can need to choose a gun.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2006, 04:58:35 PM »

:-[Wow janaldog87,

This air gun thing is far bigger then I imagined.

I took a look at the sites you listed.

I guess it leaves me with a couple questions - at this point - are you saying the brake barrel rifles will return to "zero" after cocking and just how can a "newby" pick a good shooter out of the dozens available?

Thanks and keep em coming!

sherpa · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2006, 05:22:52 PM »

check out straightshooters.com i like r9's and r11/s and rws 34. for power and accuracy.

D.C. · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2006, 06:58:43 PM »

Hello Darrell
I have recently gotten into shooting air guns, i was skeptical of the break barrel action on the same grounds as you have mentioned. but i got one and though i am not shooting consisently in a good tight group.i am sure that the gun is not the problem.these heavy spring guns seem to be a little more demanding of good form on the shooters part.Frankly it has been a some what humbuling expereance. good news though i seem to be getting better.have only put about 400 shoots through the barrel the gun has a pretty strong spring ball baring locking system and is much heaveyer than the plastic bb guns. mine is a bee man sh 1000 I have managed a few good five shot groups about an inch. but they are not the norm. However completly missing a 2" target at 15 yards is a very rare occurance, and one I atribute to bad formor , no lets change that, it is dirty glasses, or the sun, yes it is the sun on my dirty glasses, yes I like that better.so far i have gotten the beeman and a daisy pump gun it shots ok but is small in all dementions and so much liter than any of my other guns i didnt see it as any good for keepping in shoting form. were as this bigger heaver gun should actuly help improve my shoting ability.it seems against reason but the barrel goes back to the same place every time and it apears to shoot straight.check out the web sights that jamaldog87 gave you i found them help full. in comparing different guns and making my final choise. and it is surprising how addicting it is to be able to shoot in your back yard and not have to go to the range.It makes it easy to get in a few shoots, just about every day. I need to beef up my back stop though. I have to beat it flat and weld some quarter inch steel to back of the thing it is about to blow through. If you are going to shoot indoors you need a substantial back stop. My old daisy, from years past, not the new one , only needed a piece of 1/2 inch plywood and some card board and you were good to go for indoor shooting. this thing will go right through that. So if you get one make sure you have something solid behind it or you will mess something up.Time will tell how it holds up, but it looks pretty solid to me and i expect many years of good shooting out of it. see if anyone you know has one, and give it a shoot. These air guns today are are just as much fun now as the old ones were then. To you I my be a youngster but I am 46 and enjoy shooting my pellet gun. Just as much as I did the old one when I was 10. D.C. Don

Casull · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2006, 08:03:52 PM »

I think if you look at most (maybe all) of the break barrel airguns, both the rear sight and the front sight are on the barrel. In other words, they are both on the same side of the hinge (at least my Gamo is). Therefore, they do not need to return to the same position, as they never move in relation to the barrel. I'm very pleased with mine, and have made several one shot kills on ground squirrels at 25 to 30 yards. Have fun.

Brithunter · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2006, 01:32:34 PM »

Oh my you have led a sheltered life

With break barrel spring powered air rifles as in Center fire cartridge rifles quality means everything. I have three here at present and the lowest quality one is a BSA Meteor .177 however it's still accurate providing the operator does their part correctly

. I used to hunt rabbits and squirrels with one before I sold it. This is a replacement.

Then we move up market a bit to a Haenel Model 302 in .22. This East German made rifle ( made in the old gunmaking city of Suhl) has a bore of 5.6mm which is the old british size for .22. Modern European guns have a 5.5mm bore for .22's. The Haenel is a full sized air rifle with tangent sight similar to a Mauser and an adjustable trigger. As yet I have not scoped this rifle so have not been able to check it's accuracy potential. The barlycorn front Mauser type sight is not the best for accuracy to my eyes any way.

The best one I have is my Feinwerbau Sport 127 which again is a .22 but with the 5.5mm bore. I brought this one new in 79 and it cost me even at the discounted price £79 ($142 US ) back then

Since then I have had the spring replaced twice and the seals once. With good pellets it will shoot under an 1" at 45 yards and drop a rabbit with a head shot at that range

Feinwerbau make fine target rifles and pistols their quality is first rate.

Now the Breech locking bolt on the BSA was designed some time after WW2 and makes sure the barrel aligns to the same place others use a detent ball so do a similar thing. Weirauch HW35 and HW80 (The HW80 is styled after the Feinwerbau 124 & 127 as Feinwerbau had a large market share and Weirauch wanted some of it) are other excellent break barrel air rifles. And then of course we have the Theoben Crusader and Eliminator break barrels with gas rams instead of spprings however these air rifles will cost you around $1000 US

and no I am not joking as a friend has just enquired about the Crusader and got quoted in .25 cal $925US. The Theobens are superbly made and accurate but they are in the top rank for quality.

I suggets you try to find some one with a quality Break Barrel air rifle who will let you try it out

you will be surprised.

dave · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2006, 02:54:27 PM »

Obviously you have never handled a quality air rifle. The good ones are at least as accurate as any firearm at ranges that are appropriate to the power level of the gun.
Here is a target

shot with this rifle

A .22 Webley Xocet with a Simmons 4x32 what in the world diamond reticle shotgun scope

I'd bet your friends gun was made in China, not a good measure of what an airgun really is. All that sprongging and pfttting usually means the gun is not really made very well and needs improvements. Don't rely on the Review center to chose an airgun, its not really reliable and is European based, so the guns there are not necessarily the same as the ones here.
Break barrel guns like the Walther LGV and LG55 were for quite a while the standard of 10m competition shooting, and were replaced by side levers such as the FWB300S and Walther LGR. These rifles can easily place pellets one on top of the other in a single hole at up to 30m, but lots of times the gun is way more accurate then the shooter will ever be.
Walther LGV

Walther LG55

FWB300S mini

If you have questions about a particular airgun, the best place to ask is http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/79537. Just don't post and run, as questions are usually answered in a matter of minutes there.
I have guns produced by most of the better known makers, ie Weihrauch, Feinwerkbau, Webley, Crosman, Sheridan, Walther, Diana, etc and all of them are excellent rifles. Build quality is at least as good as any firearm, some better. Those are what you should be looking at, not the Asian guns. Don't be fooled by the Beeman name, its just a name, nothing more. Theres just as many poor quality guns sold by Beeman as there are decent guns. You should not forget that in this case you get what you pay for.

FWB127

BSA Airsporter Stutzen

FWB300S

Weihrauch HW35

TCBrian · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:02:50 PM »

For a shop gun, don't get one of the super powerful pellet guns. They are more powerful than a 22 shooting CBs, so it defeats your purpose. I have an older Gamo break barrel that shoots 177s at around 650FPS. It is extremely accurate and can be used in small spaces safely. I kill gophers and starlings up to 20 yrds, It is a lot of fun to shoot and is safe in a shop environment. If you get a break barrel and use open sights, make sure that both sights are on the barrel. My rear sight is on the barrel just in front of the hinge and the front is in the obvious place. This way, even if the gun doesn't lock up the same everytime, the point of impact will not change as long as the barrel seals good.
If you want a powerful scoped gun, get a side cock. I also used a ond bolt actions 22 with CCI CBs for quiet accurate shooting at fairly close range.

Good shooting,
Brian

dave · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:34:18 PM »

OK, how about first things first? What sort of shooting do you want to do? Target, hunting small game and pests? At what ranges? And most important, whats your price range, ie how much do you really want to spend? This would be a good starting point in deciding what sort of gun to get.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:35:51 PM »

Thanks for the info you all are providing!

Do all of the side cock guns make all the racket when they are fired.

As I said, the one I shot seemed like it would be very distracting with the sounds it gave off.

What about a rifle like the old Red Riders that has an air chamber rather then a spring and plunger?

I see they have some quality pistols built that way, what about rifles?

Keep em coming!

dave · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:58:21 PM »

Quote

Do all of the side cock guns make all the racket when they are fired

Absolutely not, only the cheapies. That noise is caused by ill fitting parts, poor construction and other mechanical issues. The quality guns just go thump.

The Red Ryders were spring guns also, they did have a plunger and a leather seal, just not so big. They weren't all that powerful and hardly accurate either.
Rifles with air chambers instead of springs do exist, they are called single stroke pneumatics. They are mostly expensive high end guns, quite accurate but not real powerful. One pump, single shot, mostly .177 cal.
To that end, multi-pump pneumatics are good too, fairly common and not expensive. Benjamin, Sheridan and Crosman guns produce guns like this. 5 or 6 pumps and you get plenty of power.

Sheridan CW

Sheridan Silver Streak and Blue Streak

A bunch of old multi pumps and a couple CO2 rifles

Brithunter · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:27:33 PM »

Hi Dave,

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm nice collection you have there

now the one I particularly like and covert is the BSA RB2. I have wanted one of those for some time as it would make a nice companion for my BSA CF2 Stutzen

The high price initailly put me off as I was still buying centerfires at the time and now of curse they are not made and the Spainish made version is just not the same as I saw one in use the other weekend

.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2006, 05:23:11 PM »

:)Dave,

I mostly would like something which can keep to into shooting (in the shop) when the snow is deep OR?

I also like to shoot handguns, so would also like to get a good air gun for that type of practice.

As per the $$$$$$$$$$$$, I am not in the market for high end - short on thopse kinds of bucks - but on the other hand I do not like junk!

Seems like a good single pump handgun is available for 200 - 300 range and as I like to use a scoped rifle, I would expect the rifle to run something above that.

As per the power, it would be nice to put the hurt of a rouge cat, but for the most part it will be targets at this point.

I have a couple of .22s which will hold their own in most crowds so I don't need to cover that ground again.

Thanks.

Keep em coming!

D.C. · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2006, 10:51:34 AM »

Nice looking guns guys. Is there any hope for me and my beeman, or will i be replacing it sooner than I want? it seems i do better not benching the gun. shooting with my forend hand brased on my knee is what is currently getting the best results. Is the jump of the barrel a beeman specific thing or is this something you learn to deal with in all the air guns that have been mentioned? I have not tryed a good leather sand bag yet but am still just trying to get the barrel shot in thats when i was going to get real demanding of my self and the gun. do i have unrealalistic goals of expecting 1"or less groups at 20 to 30 yards with my sh 1000? D.C. Don

dave · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2006, 03:03:35 PM »

Yeah, you probably will be, or should be. The Chinese made SH1000 is actually reasonably accurate, but not real well made. Not a real good value for what it cost. Crosmans Quest is much less expensive and a lot better quality. Neither is up to the standards set by makers like Weihrauch or Walther but they are decent inexpensive plinkers.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #16 on:** September 19, 2006, 11:01:35 AM »

:)Thanks for the info which has been coming through.

I have been laid up with a shoulder surgery, second this year, and haven't checked out the site recently.

More info to look up and thanks

Keep em coming!

S.S. · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2006, 04:48:58 AM »

The only gripe I had with break action air rifles is that they
would kill scopes in a very short time. This I have found was my fault !
NEVER brace them directly against a solid object ! I now use a piece
of foam rubber on my bench to rest them on. When hunting, don't place
the rifle directly against a tree to brace it. Make a V with your thumb and pointer
and rest the rifle there. prop against the tree with remaining fingers.
I was astonished at the power and accuracy of some of these modern air rifles.
There is one called a GAMO hunter that I have seen kill ground squirrels
cleanly at 70 meters away. It will make pass through head shots on gray squirrels at
50 meters all day long. I am not sure the pellets the guy had but I know they were gold
plated. (Literally).

D.C. · « **Reply #18 on:** September 20, 2006, 06:26:12 AM »

Hello Darrell
Hope that shoulder gets to feeling better soon. Thats the other good thing about air rifels,they dont beat your body as bad as the big guns.

S Sumner
How thick a piece of foam are you useing. I have a solid bench set up in the yard. It would be nice to find something that worked off of it. Still been braceing my fore end hand on the edge of the bench on a board for elevation. there is a lot of room for human error in my set up. My sand bags are packed away, but construction debre i have in plenty. I will experament with some. Thanks for the idea. good shooting to all. D.C.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2006, 07:04:34 AM »

:)Morn'in fellers!

Hey there S. Summer, let me get this strieght about the scope damage.

You say it occures ONLY when the rifle is fired while held tight to a SOLID OR HARD surface or object. Is that correct?

?

Other then the above, there is no problem with scopes, is that correct???

What about sand bags on the bench??

As per the construction D.C. speaks of, tell me about it! I am presently waiting for the shop to be built BEFORE I have something to shoot inside of. All I have now is a mess of dirt piled up and two cement walls. However, the builder is set to start next week.

Our transition to a smaller place started a year ago!!!!!! Not only has it taken much longer then expected, but used up more bucks then hoped for. Ain't it always that way!

Back to the break action rifles, one poster replied to my question that the sights - front and rear - are both on the barrel, so there is no alignment problem when the barrel is moved.

OK, I understand that. HOWEVER, I would plan on using a scope and that is not IS NOT barrel mounted.

Just how in the world does this rifle allow for repeatedly moving the barrel in and out of position and yet it returns to zero.

I, being a welder and fabracator can understand such a thing provided the barrel came to a fixed stop against something solid and then had a some type of device which went over the barrel and pulled it tightly into position. But even then, there will be pin wear and over time less then 100% return to the desired position.

I have never seen a ball and detent setup which allowed for the long term and repeatable lock up which you folk seem to be talking about. The detent, if not the ball, SOON shows wear and with it, a sloppy fit.

If it sounds like I am doubting your word, it is only because of past experience of repairs and operation.

Again, any comments and I know it maybe hard to get things through this Ol'head, are welcome.

Keep em coming!

zack · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2006, 09:22:45 PM »

darrel-
the higher powered spring guns whether, break barrel, underlever, or side lever are scope eaters. they require airgun specific scopes & even the cheaper a.g. scopes will not live long on a high power springer. because of the piston moving forward you have a forward recoil & on cheaper firearms scopes the reticles are reinforced for rearward recoil.if you destroy a firearms scope on a springer your warranty is null & void. many springers have holes in the scope dovetails so scope rings with built in anti-recoil pins that protrude from the bottom of the ring can drop into the hole to keep the mount from moving on the rail. seperate rail mounted scope stops are also used. if you are strictly going to be shooting indoors at shorter ranges. a beeman R-7 or a slavia 631 would be good choices. the beeman gs series & the gamos tend to be audibly twangy when fired. the multi-pumpers can be tiring after many shots & their muzzle reports can be as loud as a lower power rimfire round, especially indoors. my main springer is a 'tuned' .22 beeman R-1 with a swift 4-12x40 A.O. scope. depending on pellet weight its shooting from 640-725 f.p.s. at 35 meters off a sandbag i'm shooting 1/2" cloverleafs. at 50 meters 3/4" - 1" 5 shot groups. out to 100' it blows exit wounds on grey squirrels. springers are also very hold sensitive. if you really want to research these guns do a search for straight shooters & fun supply & read those forums. both sites are also dealers & you can get a look at what's available gun-wise.

S.S. · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2006, 10:17:27 AM »

On my Bench
I use a block of rubber about 8 inches square
and set about a 2 1/2 inch thick piece of foam rubber
on top of it.
The foam is from an old car seat and is pretty firm.

Ahab · « **Reply #22 on:** September 27, 2006, 11:21:39 AM »

Some really nice guns shown here. But I wasn't about to spend that kind of money so I went and bought Gamo Shadow 1000 with scope last year to reduce the rabbit population without disturbing the neighbors. Yes, we eat them. Initially the bore was rough and it had a junky trigger. A little JB bore paste slicked up the bore. Some work on the trigger made it better. On the bench it will put Super Dome .177 pellets into 3/4"' all day long, at 25yrds, at around 960fps. ( the scope is not mounted on the barrel ) Ok, that's with no wind conditions. There is no other noise than phang, like a CB .22 when shot. Will it shoot loose someday? Maybe, but it hasn't with over 3 tins of pellets thru it so far. Am I gonna worry about it? Nah.

zack · « **Reply #23 on:** September 27, 2006, 04:13:33 PM »

ahab-
one thing that comes up on the airgun forums is that most airguns use softer steel in their barrels than powder burners. so wire brushes & solvents are not recomended as they damage the rifling. most use nylon pull throughs & patches soaked with goo gone gel followed by dry patches. oiling barrels is not recomended either as causes dieseling & can harm the gun. on spring guns dry firing can cause major damage also since there is no pellet resistance the piston slams the seal into the front of the air chamber.there are replacement trigger blades for gamos that are said to be major improvements. the better beeman rifles which are basicly
H.W rifles rebadged with the beeman name are known for their rekord triggers. the gs series beemans are spanish cometas & are about the same as gamos

Veral · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2006, 12:22:04 PM »

I've had a handful of pump up air rifles, two break barrels, and now an RWS 48, in 22 caliber which is heavy, and a power house by spring gun standards. It's a side lever, fixed barrel, and will take starlings quite consistently at 100 yards once you get the range. The report is lower than the Sheridan silver streak

It is guaranteed for LIFE ----- Got anything to say against that? The fellow who reccomended it to me, an EXTREEMLY knowledgable gun writer, said he has had one in 177 cal, (speed 1100 fps) and has shot at least 50 pigeons at 100 yards plus, with pellets always exiting. He's had his 20 years and says it shoots good as when new.