Author Topic: whats the best carbine for home/ urban defense not in .223? (Read 3254 times)

coopershooter · « **on:** July 08, 2006, 04:33:30 PM »

i'm thinking a leveraction carbine in .357 would be good. or a highpoint 9mm carbine. what are your thoughts?
thanks.

CyberSniper · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2006, 07:42:20 PM »

I'm not familiar with the Highpoint, but a Marlin
lever gun should be fine.
Ruger makes semi auto carbines in 9mm and .40 S&W also,
as another possible choice.

Old Griz · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2006, 08:27:34 AM »

CyberSniper has a fine idea. I love my .357 lever action, but in the middle of the night, I think this would be a much better choice.

Old Griz · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2006, 08:32:28 AM »

However, I think a 12-ga Coachgun is even better!

NYH1 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2006, 06:03:49 AM »

A 16 inch barreled AR-15 in 223 Rem. would be (or should I say was) my first choice! With the right ammo (soft point, hollow point or balistic tip bullets) the 223 Rem. is a lot more effective on a person then a 9mm and 357 Mag. and won't over penetrate people or walls as bad.

NYH1 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2006, 06:08:01 AM »

Oops. Just noticed you don't want a 223, disregard my reply then!

hardertr · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2006, 05:04:27 PM »

I have the HiPoint in 40 S&W and it's a fun gun to shoot. I much prefer my Kel-Tec sub 2000 in 9mm. It is VERY accurate at out to 50 yards (maybe more...I haven't really tried it beyond that) with it's open sights. It also folds up nicely and would fit perfectly under the bed.

K.K · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2006, 03:51:49 AM »

The Beretta Storm carbine in 40 S&W or 45 would be a good choice too. They accept the pistol mags and come ready to mount lasers, lights, etc.

Shooter973 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2006, 01:53:03 PM »

I'd have to think one of my Ruger 44 auto's might be the way to go........Or a Rem 870 12 ga., police shotgun with mag extension, that lives near my bed.

TreyAzagthoth · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2006, 03:33:32 PM »

hk mp5 if you can afford it

kyote · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:14:10 PM »

well, it's likely you will not be attacked by a herd of folks.the .357 would be a better choice then the other you mentioned.But why not a 30-30?that would better suit ya then the other.and could pull double duty.
But for me..an 18" 12ga. pump would be my 1st choice for home defense.

TreyAzagthoth · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2006, 04:19:39 PM »

Quote from: kyote on July 21, 2006, 04:14:10 PM

well, it's likely you will not be attacked by a herd of folks.the .357 would be a better choice then the other you mentioned.But why not a 30-30?that would better suit ya then the other.and could pull double duty.
But for me..an 18" 12ga. pump would be my 1st choice for home defense.

yep i use a mossberg 500 pump 12ga with 18.5" riot barrel and speed feed pistol grip full length stock, it's very reliable, never had a misfire or bad extraction in the 15 years or more that i've had it so thats good enough for me.

Game_Stalker · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2006, 05:29:30 PM »

I'd go with what trey and kyote said. I have a winchester 1300 defender that I picked up just after a drive by in front of my house. Never had to use it, but it's a beast that'll do the job AND go with me on rabbit hunts.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2006, 06:38:47 PM »

I have a Marlin camp carbine in 45 ACP. This is a semi auto rifle with a 16" barrel and takes 1911 magazines. This would be my 1st choice. Second choice,,, M1 carbine.

Cheese

Old Griz · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2006, 07:26:33 PM »

K.K had a good suggestion with the Beretta Storm. The Ruger Carbine would be cheaper, but the Beretta is throwing out .45 ACPs at the bad guy instead of just .40s. The bigger the hole, the better the hole!

I like Trey's suggestion, too, but does anyone know how many $thousands a MP5 would cost today? I haven't priced one since '93 and I'm sure they've gone up since then!

PaulS · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2006, 12:08:18 AM »

For home defense I use a shotgun too. First reason is that it is easy to point in the right direction and harder than a pistol to point in the wrong direction. Next is when you work the slide on a 12 gauge it is a bit un-nerving to the bad guy standing in the living room with a pistol. If you use anything smaller than #7 shot it won't penetrate the walls so you don't have to worry about where the kids room is or if the neighbors are home when you shoot. At twenty feet that load of shot is going to make a large ragged hole in the bad guy that will almost always prove to be:
1 fatal
2 the biggest distraction of his very short life
3 noisey enough to wake the neighbors in case you didn't have a chance to call 9 1 1 before you had to kill that poor basta-d because you feared for your life.

That 223 is going to go just about everywhere after it hits anything and there is no telling where it will stop. If it goes through the bad guy it may go through the wall or just through part of the wall and cut a path down the wires in the wall causing a fire. If it goes through it might kill whatever is on the outside of that wall or just keep punch through until it finds a neighbor. They are too light and too fast to be predictable.

coopershooter · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2006, 04:48:30 AM »

i should have been more clear with my spec's. i'm looking for a carbine pistol combo, for survival, home defense, emergency hunting, and all around personal protection i have a rem 870 with extended mag. it,s very reliable. but in a shtf situation, the shells are bulky, the range is limited, i'm leaning toward the .357 lever gun as i could use the same ammo in my s&w 686 revolver. i like the idea of a rifle pistol combo, i like the gun choises in 9mm, but not the cartrige. i think the .357 is better for hunting. i have a rossi lever action that i love, but it's not reliable enough for my needs. it jams up too often to depend on. this gun has been worked on, as it was used as a cass rifle, and has a glassy smooth action and the best trigger i ever seen on a lever gun. but it needs to go bang every time!
thank you for all your replies!

Old Griz · « **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2006, 10:13:40 AM »

If that’s your criteria, then the only think I can think of is a Marlin 1894 in .357 mag. I don’t know of any other .357 rifles out there now, unless you can find a Winchester that’s been hiding somewhere, or in a pawn shop. My Marlin 1894 CB is a .357, and it has been flawless. There are some high dollar Italian clones that ought to shoot great for the price you pay.

How 'bout it guys . . . anything other than a lever action out there in .357?

TreyAzagthoth · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2006, 11:06:58 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz on July 21, 2006, 07:26:33 PM

K.K had a good suggestion with the Beretta Storm. The Ruger Carbine would be cheaper, but the Beretta is throwing out .45 ACPs at the bad guy instead of just .40s. The bigger the hole, the better the hole!

I like Trey's suggestion, too, but does anyone know how many $thousands a MP5 would cost today? I haven't priced one since '93 and I'm sure they've gone up since then!

bout 15k for the class 3 full auto one.
impactguns usually has some semi auto only ones for 3500-5000$ if i remember right, i love those guns.

RGS · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2006, 08:36:37 AM »

I think you are "stuck" with a lever.

I like .41 mags and have a couple 1894s in that caliber to go with my revolvers. However my daily carry gun is a .9mm, so when I learned about Hi-Point carbines, I shopped around and found a used one. See link for that story:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,92243.0.html

A survival gun is the one that is one hand (not home in the safe) when the situation presents. Just about anything will do in a pinch. I don't want a high dollar outfit sliding around in the trunk all its life waiting for Armageddon. If the Hi-Point is lost, stolen or confiscated, it is not a high dollar loss.

NYH1 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 24, 2006, 07:14:31 PM »

Quote from: PaulS on July 22, 2006, 12:08:18 AM

That 223 is going to go just about everywhere after it hits anything and there is no telling where it will stop. If it goes through the bad guy it may go through the wall or just through part of the wall and cut a path down the wires in the wall causing a fire. If it goes through it might kill whatever is on the outside of that wall or just keep punch through until it finds a neighbor. They are too light and too fast to be predictable.

A 223 Rem. with soft point, hollow point or ballistic tip bullets won't over penetrate as bad as a 9mm, 40 S&W or a 45 ACP will, be it a wall or a person!

Doc T · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2006, 05:34:41 AM »

I used to keep an Ithaca riot gun handy but have changed. I had an accident last year and temporarily disabled my left arm. A pump shotgun would have been no use. For that reason, I have gone to something I can operate with one hand. What if you are attacked and get shot in an arm and break a bone? Now I keep semi-autos or hand guns ready. I have a Browning High Power and a Colt AR in 9mm, both ready to go.

randyb · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:54:56 AM »

Looking at your criteria the .357 makes a perfectly logical choice. Personally I would prefer in a levergun a .44 mag or .45 colt. (Of course I would prefer those in revolvers too). The .41 mag would be interesting, but I like the ability to up/down load in the .44/.45 rounds. The .30 carbine in a M-1 with a black hawk would be interesting, though not my first choice.

BTW I keep a 12 ga. 870 and a .45 ACP for goblins in the night. I tried the carbine/pistol route in both .357 (Winchester 94 and Ruger GP-100 and SP101) and 9mm (S&W 6906 and Marlin camp 9). I still have the pistols but got rid of both rifles as they were not reliable. Looking at weight the .223 is a better alternative than 9mm or larger rounds, better long range hitting, and less penetration in home construction materials. I would opt for the marlins in anycase for leverguns, I have just had better luck with them.

covertcowboy · « **Reply #23 on:** August 19, 2006, 11:38:15 AM »

if you dont want a scatter-gun

??

armaltie makes a .308

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles.htm

coopershooter · « **Reply #24 on:** September 03, 2006, 11:39:36 AM »

so how does the .308 go in a pistol?

single action · « **Reply #25 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:14:24 AM »

coopershooter,
I am a big fan of the dual carbine/pistol combo idea. I have had a winchester .357 carbine since 1994 (centenial model) and have had no problems with it. I have shot deer, coyote, groundhogs,rabbits, rampaging dogs and feral cats with it. It has been very dependable and as long as I keep the range at about 100 yards or less it allways does the job. unfortunately winchester doesnt make these any longer but marlin makes the 1894c in .357 and it is a excellent weapon. the only other company that I know of that makes a .357 levergun is rossi I think they call it the Puma. I have seen and shot 2 of these and they seemed o.k., but thay were of a little rougher quality finish wise than the marlin or winchester. Along with my carbine, I have carried several handguns, all rugers. a 43/4 blackhawk, a 3 1/16 sp101, and a gp 100. all 3 did a fine job, though I prefer the blackhawk for hunting, I no longer have the gp100 as I had to get rid of one of them and the sp101 was my concealed carry gun.
I have been very happy with this combo, but... if I had it all to do over again... and could stand the .44 mags recoil out of a handgun and higher ammo prices, I would probably go with the .44 mag. But as I said this combo has done everything I have asked it to do. Good luck.

patm41 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 06, 2006, 07:30:27 AM »

these are excellent house guns.. will shoot most 9mm ammo , very dependable
compact, avaliable as a carbine/with 16" barrel or spend the extra and get a SBR
(Tax stamp required) ,have a grip safety , very accurate...

totallycustom · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2006, 09:02:26 AM »

I think those kel-tec sub-2000 carbines would be ok too bad no .45 though, I am thinking about getting a kel-tec su16 pistol in 223 as a SD and coyote gun with the hand guard and a front folding grip should be pretty fun in the woods and take care of any "bump in the night"

I like that uzi never shot one or even seen one in real life pretty cool though.

FOX22250 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:54:42 PM »

ruger makes a fine carbine......