.41 Mag stuff

[kgb]

Greetings, all.  Been wanting to post here for a while, figured this is the best forum as my primary interest right now is loading up something useful for deer hunting.  I've carried a S&W 657 CH (6.5") for a few years now, so far only shot one coyote with it.  A lot of the items I read here recommend deep penetrators for deer with handgun rounds, I'm going to keep with an expander through the lung/heart area.  This is what I believe is best with a rifle or arrow so it will continue for now for me with handgun theory.

At first I carried Win 175gr Silvertip rounds and that's what I shot a coyote with.  It went through his head so it didn't really matter what round it would have been.  I collect a bunch of reading material about the .41 and handgun hunting in general and this round has been reported as useful in at least two instances, both beyond what I consider reasonable range for me at under 50 yards.  The main reason for choosing this round was the fact it hit where I aimed with my 657.  Last year I carried 220gr Speer 3/4 jacket SP's since I got them to shoot straight for me with 20gr of Lil'Gun at 1373fps.

Doing development with 210gr Sierra HP's, I think this is where I'll wind up if they shoot straight for me.  So far 21gr of Lil'Gun looks very promising from a rest and hit 1421fps (avg of 5 shots) in the 657.  If that impacts where I look with a "hunting hold" I think it'll be this year's selection.  These shot very well in my Marlin 1894FG as well, would make ammo carry easy.  Winchester 240gr PTHP's were good in both arms as well, might be a last-minute choice.

I hope to chime in on some of your threads; work continues on the 1894, a Blackhawk 7.5", the CH, a Model 97 7.5" and T/C barrels in both lengths.  Just getting into cast bullets, 200gr WFN's and HS6 look good, 17.5gr of Lil'Gun with a Cast Performance 250gr WFN was really good in the M97 at 1320fps.

So much work to do.

Kirk

[crawfish]

I currently load four different bullets for .41 caliber. The Sierra 170g and 210g, and a 250g or 265g cast from CPBT or BearTooth. The 170 is loaded in my carry Taurus 425SH4C. The Sierra 210g is the bullet I first loaded for hunting way back in 1989. It has killed a ton of deer, goats, sheep, and hogs. Son #1, Son #2, Daughter, and Granddaughter #1 still use my old load  as their primary hunting round in .41RemMag. I currently use the 250g cast in all my .41RemMag guns and the 265g in all my .41 caliber wildcats.  Some info about the Sierra 170g. I know a "smith" who uses that bullet in a .41 caliber wildcat loaded to around 2000fps to kill elk and he says it works great.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: Hey Kirk!

We're glad to have you on board here at GBO. Also, it's always good to hear from another .41 shooter! There's a lot of wise, and knowledgeable folks here, and you can really learn a great deal from their experience. Have fun, and again, welcome.

[kgb]

Definitely here to learn.  My deer hunting pal tells me he used to break shoulders with his rifle shooting but has gone to lung shots, we both agree a handgun-speed bullet wouldn't damage near as much edibles impacting the shoulder.   He only knows so much, though.  He shoots a .44 and a couple of .45's.  Doesn't even own a .41, but otherwise he's okay.

Handloader's Digest Ninth Edition has a couple articles by Russ Gaertner on reloading and shooting the .41, plus an odd article about making a version of .41 Shorts from .45ACP cases.  Good information about high performance reloading techniques in the former.

I was able to get over 2000fps with the 170gr Sierra through the T/C 10" and 14" barrels using Lil'Gun, but don't recall the accuracy being all that great.  I used to think the T/C was a near-flawless shooting device but have found it likes some and dislikes other rounds.  Just like the revolvers.  Of course, I'm nothing approaching flawless as a shooting device myself.

Got lots of browsing to do, thanks for the welcome!

Kirk

[Old Griz]

:cb2: Don't be too hard on your poor friend. There's a lot of us .44 mag people who were never enlightened about .41s until late in life. Some are too hard headed to ever learn. Others, with a few blows from a 2x4, eventually see the light (like myself). Many just can't grasp the fact that to reach true handgun perfection, you must go smaller in size instead of larger.

You may yet convert this wayward friend. Until then, just keep outshooting him!  

[oso45-70]

:cb2: Don't be too hard on your poor friend. There's a lot of us .44 mag people who were never enlightened about .41s until late in life. Some are too hard headed to ever learn. Others, with a few blows from a 2x4, eventually see the light (like myself). Many just can't grasp the fact that to reach true handgun perfection, you must go smaller in size instead of larger.

You may yet convert this wayward friend. Until then, just keep outshooting him!  [/quote

Griz, I am going to be nice tonight and agree with with you but its just because you are so right. I love mine because it does what its supposed to do, Wouldent take for mine.     ........Joe............

[Old Griz]

:cb2: OK, while we're on .41 mag stuff, I was looking on the MidwayUSA website just to see what size bullets they carried for the .41. The largest I saw was 260-gr. Is that as large as the .41 gets, or are there heavier ones out there? The heaviest factory load I have found so far was the Winchester 240-gr. Platinum Tip HP.

I don't reload yet, just curious.

[crawfish]

I know of two companies that sell .41 caliber cast at 310g, three or four others sell  up to 300g. Couple of those also have 290g. I haven't been able to get anything over 280g to shoot in my guns and have found no need for anything over 265g. Truth be known 250g is really all I need but I like the 265s in my .41 caliber wildcats because they shoot so well. Federal has been selling a 250s cast load for as long as I have been loading cast stuff. They use the very same 250g GC bullet from CPBT that I load.

[kgb]

Started in on handgun silhouette, I've made up 200gr WFN and HS6 for my 657 which now wears a scope.  The 10" T/C has a scope, and the FA M97 with iron sights are both using 170gr cast with the last of my American Select.  Not sure which classes I can shoot with those 3 guns, the first time out I shot the 657 with iron sights.

While the stainless guns clean up pretty easily the T/C is hard to take the last of the cast out of--it'll get jacketed bullets after this month.  My 1894 has shot well with 10gr of 800X and XTP's at over 1300fps so I'll use that in the cowboy silhouettes.

As for hunting bullets, MBW 254gr long nose bullets and CPBC 265gr LFN (both gas checked) shot pretty well out of the Marlin, and one did well out of the 657.  Neither can be used in the T/C (engage rifling) nor the M97 (too long), but the CPBC 250gr WFNGC fit and shot well at over 1300fps in the 97.  If I get used to that trigger I may carry it over the 657 for deer.

Got some 210gr Gold Dot component bullets, if these shoot at all well in the Marlin they're going to get the call instead of the Sierras.  Just too curious.

Kirk

[dakotashooter2]

I've had good results with heart/ lung shots on deer with the Hornady 210 gr xtp. I'm pushing them around 1200 fps and get good expansion and weight retention. Almost always find the bullet under the hide on the opposite side and the deer usually drop within 30 yards. Never had one hit major bone so I can't speak for that. Pretty much everything I've tried in the .41 has worked.

[kgb]

All of the playing around got me to a 250gr Cast Performance Gas Checked with 16gr of 2400 and 1252fps in the 657, the Marlin liked 210gr Gold Dots with 21gr of Lil'Gun at 1781fps.  I carried both this deer season but only got an opportunity with the rifle.  Not quite 100yards, I'd call it 85 or 90, and I hit a buck high in the lungs.  He ran off, of course, then lay down.  I got to him in about 25mins and he'd expired, and cleaning him out I found severe damage to the lungs with a good-sized hole through both.  I felt shattered bone on the off-side, and figured the bullet had exited, but should have checked closer as I'd have likely found that bullet in the chest cavity.  Didn't determine this until I got home, and it wasn't under the hide as I'd hoped by then. 

Can't complain about the performance, the shot was high but not too high, and you .41 Marlin guys know these guns don't kick much at all with the lighter bullets.  Also, a lot quiter than your standard centerfire bottleneck cartridges.  Look forward to using this gun again, even more to having an opportunity with the revolver. 

Kirk

[Dand]

Thanks for reviving this thread.  I just bought a pound of Lil Gun and promptly lost my copy of Handloader with the load info I wanted to use. I too have 3 revolvers - SW 57 4 inch, Bisley and Redhawk 7.5 in, and a Marlin FG.  I love them all but carry the Smith the most.

I'm trying to make time to load some of the Lil Gun behind some 250 and 265 gr bullets and some 250 gr jacketed bullets I bought from a guy in Oregon - See GB New Products forum.

I'm open to suggestions for powders and loads to try with those 250 gr jacketed bullets.  I have a little info from the maker but more would be helpful.

I haven't worked with the Marlin enough to have settled on a load but it seemed to like the Speer Gold Dot factory loads and the Win 240 loads too.  The worst thing about the Marlin is that it gobbles up the rounds too fast while plinking.  I never thought it would be so much fun - and so far feeds anything from Win 175 factories, to 265 Corbons, to my own home loads with 215 cast (though these last sometimes sheer a little of the edge of the SWC shoulder).

[kgb]

Dand, I don't have anything on the jacketed heavies.  I'd go to a manufacturer and keep the fingers crossed! 

The factory Gold Dots weren't much to look at through my Marlin, though they hit 1744fps.  The reload speed was only 37fps higher, but accuracy was right there.  Another option would have been 265gr CPBC with AA9 at 1504fps, I was just too curious about the Gold Dots.  Winchester Supremes were okay, they gave 1.5" at 50 yards with 3 shots in the Marlin.  They are on the low end of foot pounds compared to other factory 210gr rounds, but they're in it for the weight obviously.  The FA M97 liked them, though.

The 2400 load and 250 CPBC was very good, it ran in a final test for me with 800X at 1169fps and Lil'Gun at 1237fps and was just more consistently accurate. 

For Lil'Gun I simply tried 17.5gr behind the CP 250's and 265's.  I have no way of knowing what the pressures are in any of my guns, only that they showed no signs, but that doesn't mean they'd be good/safe in your guns.  In the Marlin, they kick pretty good!  The gun recoils differently (it's my first centerfire lever action) by rearing up pretty high.  Not so much straight-back recoil, yet it doesn't smack the cheek.  Anyhow, you see Lil'Gun top at 20.5 with the Speer 220 JSP on the Hodgdon site.  I run 21gr with the 210's and so far that charge with a 210gr Sierra has given me the greatest energy reading out of the Marlin.  The next one down is the 265gr CP with Lil'Gun.  In my 657 it gave 949 foot lbs, that's right up there with the heaviest rounds I've fired in that gun (it's a 6.5" Classic Hunter and now they sell them with 7.5" barrels) just 7 ft lbs ahead of the Sierra/Lil'Gun load.

I've spent a good amount of time, obviously, working these up, and it's sometimes a lot to take in.   I think I'm going to narrow it all down to Speer bullets, 200HP, 210GD and 220SP, and the CP 250's.  Haven't even tried any of this newer stuff in my Blackhawk, I'll just take the best of what I've found and try it there.  SOMETHING is bound to work!

Kirk

[Dand]

Thanks KGB - I appreciate you sharing your experience.  I too mostly use 2400 with the heavy cast bullets but looking at the pressure info on Lil Gun it sure was appealing.  Maybe I'll contact Hodgdon for their suggestions.

I encouraged Joe to send some of his bullets to the powder makers to get some load data he could share with folks.

And those bullets still sit on the bench.  Too many distractions so far.  Tomorrow........