Author Topic: brush rifle  (Read 1698 times)

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Offline billy

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brush rifle
« on: December 18, 2008, 01:12:59 AM »
What are your opinions on a good brush rifle ,action type and caliber?
I enjoy collecting guns, swaping and staying up on all the newest models. I deer, quail, squirrel and rabbit hunt.

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 02:18:45 AM »
Are you going to hunt in brush, shoot in brush or shoot through brush?

Some characteristics of a good brush gun:

1.  Perhaps a little shorter than usual so as to be less likely to get tangled in something.
2.  Easy to reload for a second shot.  That would make it a semiauto or a pump.  The lever on a lever action could get caught in brush.
3.  Enough bullet weight to get through the brush if needed.  That would probably be a weight of at least 250 grains on up.
4.  Low power scope or iron sights.

My ideal brush rifle would be a Browning BAR or M1 Garand chambered in 375 H&H Magnum or 458 Win. Mag. respectively.  Actually,  I think the ideal brush gun would be a large bore handgun.

Offline Davemuzz

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2008, 02:33:15 AM »
Yeah....a large bore handgun is a good idea. Lightweight (compared to a rifle), easy to carry and easy to draw. Any caliber that starts with the number "4".

For a rifle, you can't go wrong with a Marlin Lever gun. Short, easy to bring to sight. I have the 1895XLR in 45-70. Exceptionally accurate rifle. I have a set of Williams peep sights on it. For brush I would recommend ghost rings if your a peep fan. If not, just stick with a good set of open sights. Factory's are fine....but you can always find a better set of after markets.

I like guns and cars....you can always tweak with 'em and get 'em how you like 'em too make 'em work for you.

Dave

Offline wareagleguy

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2008, 05:03:08 AM »
Marlin 444 Carbine with a scout scope. Deer stomper.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2008, 05:23:51 AM »
Too many think of a "brush bucker" or something that will slice thru brush and go on to kill game on the other side. That critter don't exist. If the game is much more than say 15' to 20' the far side of brush and you hit the brush with the bullet you are NOT gonna hit the game with it.

So what's needed for a brush rifle? One that is as stated already a bit short in barrel and/or action length so as to not get tangled quite so easily. Having a quick second shot is vastly over rated in my opinion. If you can't/don't make the first shot count all the rest you fling at it while running off are wasted and might just wound the critter to have it die a lingering death without being recovered. Trying to shoot thru brush at running game is at best a fool's errand.

So get the most accurate rifle you can find and one with as flat a trajectory as possible. You'll need to thread that bullet thru whatever small hole you can find in the brush if you want it to connect with game on the other side. You are not gonna shoot thru limbs, saplings and such to hit game on the other side if the bullet hits the obtrusions. You wanna miss the limbs and hit the deer so accurate and flat are the way to go.


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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2008, 09:19:07 AM »
...to what GB said, rely on Davemuzz's comments about peep or iron sights.  A scope's line of sight is in general 1.5 inches high, a peep about 1" and iron sights about 3/4" (plus or minus on each for caliber, barrel thickness, sight base thickness, etc.).  Staying "low" and as close to the bullet path with your field of view will keep you in the sight-through hole and out of the brush in tight places.

Offline Dave in WV

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2008, 12:23:09 PM »
Action: pump

Cartridge: .243 and up. As stated already there are no brush bucking cartridges suitable for deer hunting. My pump is chambered for the 7mm-08 but I do use a .243 bolt action too.

A low power scope with a heavy reticle (variables with less than 4x on the low end or a fixed 4x or less). If your eyes are up to it the peep sights are very good. A dot sight would work well.
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2008, 11:28:27 PM »
I hunt in the cactus and thorny brush country of south Texas and when I get into the really thick stuff, a big bore in a carbine lever action, or single shot is what I use.

A single shot is all your going to get anyway in the thick stuff just as Bill said, you aren't going to get a good second shot, and maybe only wound the animal if you do.

A sidearm is good for close quarters backup insurance, although not necessary, but if I'm after wild hogs, I'm usually wearing my sidearm mainly for a quick finishing shot, or any other surprises I might encounter.
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2008, 11:17:24 AM »
i like handguns for swamp hunting down here in FL. I used a Marlin 45/70 and 450 and i liked it. But if i had to choose a brush rifles right now it would be the the H&R 270win(good action and with no sights it sides easily) or  a Mosin-Nagant Carbine ( the 7.62x54 is just as or more powerful then the 30/06 and it's really easy to find both gun and ammo)   or the Ruger Model Super Redhawk 454Casull ( i had one with a red dot on it  and it was a killing machine and it drops anything one could hunt). I would choose a gun that does not cost much because it might get really mess up or broke, one that gets the job done, and one that the ammo does not cost much(i will spent lots of range time with it so both the gun and myself are one hunting machine).
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2008, 08:47:52 PM »
One of the most successful big Mule Deer HUNTERS I have known used a Remington Model 141 pump action rifle in .32 Remington.  He specialized in rooting out the bucks around volcanic cones cover with Mountain Mahogany and Manzenita brush.  I gained a lot of respect for the man, his horn collection, and his rifle. 

I helped him skin out a couple big bucks and we always recovered a couple well-placed bullets that had penetrated across the chest cavity into the far shoulder.

And here is the point, what ever rifle you are using the bullet needs to be well placed, be it .32 Remington or 45-70.

While I hunt brush fields I always have the opportunity to look across a hollow and take a buck out beyond 200-yards.  So I must prepare and practice for the 10-yard event along with the 200-yards event.

I was at a law enforcement combat shotgun shoot and the instructor told us to shoot a bunch of swinging one gallon water jugs from the hip on command, and there was a short time limit.  I missed, and so did every body else.

Admittedly I did not follow the directions the next time around but I was the only shooter to bust his three jugs.  Mentally I made the step from the LEO to the buck hunter equipped with a Remington 760.  At that point in my life I had taken a number of deer at close range in heavy brush with my Remington 760 in .270 Winchester.  On the next command I busted all three jugs quickly before the other shooters, fired their last round.  I was the only shooter to take out more then one jug. 

The key was many hours of practice over twenty years with the M760.  The range master gave me a little guff, which I did not resent, because I was successful.

My friend Ron hunts with a M760 loaded with store bought 180-grain bullets.  He hunts bucks after a fall snowstorm and normally takes them at close range.  While I try and avoid a Texas Heart shot, Ron says bring them on. 

I made the transition from factory open sight to a Williams Peep sight in a year or two.  The Peep sight was okay and in my LEO days I got the agency to install a peep sight on my Model 870.

I prefer a scope for up close work, even when tracking down criminals.  My AR had a scope on it.  The key is practice, practice, and more practice.   All practice does not need to be live fire.

I have never hunted deer out of a tree stand, but I have bucked a lot of brush.

Every once and a while I hunt with a Marlin lever action in 30-30 Winchester.  It has a scope on it.  It is accurate and fast to get into action.  For 99 percent of my hunting it is okay.  It is the one percent days that cause me some concern.

The lever action I wish I had was a Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage with a 20-inch barrel that brother had.  There was a couple of times I seen him quickly get off multiple shots and collect nice bucks.

The last few years I have taken bucks using bolt action rifles.  This year’s shot behind the shoulder buck took off and I did not get a chance to rechamber a round with the bolt action.  The story would have been different with the M760.

Typical of success with the M760 was I buck I shot in mixed brush and scrub oak.  I was standing on a bush rock point.  The only way I could see the hillside across the draw was from a standing position.  The buck was moving at a quick walk and I missed the first shot, and he was running.  My quick follow-up shot with the M760 took the large buck behind the shoulder.  The buck went out of sight, but I heard his rack hit the rocks when he fell.

I believe in using enough bullet for the occasion.  The 150-grain bullet from the .270 Winchester round created a 2-inch exit hole, left a 2x6 inch patch of hide on the hillside, and a good blood trail.  I do not think I would have made the second shot with my favorite bolt action rifle. 

For many years I would return home for deer season.  I would return with two rifles, the M760 for hunting heavy cover and a bolt action for open country.  I have taken deer at long range with the Model 760 in .270 Winchester, but it is always good to have a backup rifle.

I prefer scopes in the 3x9 or 2X10 range.  But I normally carry them at the lowest setting.  Once in a Blue Moon does it get cranked up to full power?

Back in the late 1960’s an outfit called the United States Army used modified Model 760 rifles in International Wild Boar competitions. 

The Model 760/7600 followed the lines of the Model 870 shotgun what was designed to hit moving targets.  Proficiency comes with practice.

I have hunted with this M760 since it was new in 1957.  You can see the base mount for the Williams peep sight I had installed on the rifle in 1958.  In a season or so I had the rifle tapped and a base mount for a scope installed.  First with the peep sight and later with the scope I spent a lot of time mounting and sighting the rifle at a light switch.

In the off-season I hunted woodchuck, digger squirrels and jackrabbits with it.  You can see that much of the bluing is gone, but the rifle still does the job.

I have no need for another rifle but the 7600 QWAC IN 308 Winchester is a temptation.  I have no need for the 10-round magazine.  Notice the missing blue around the magazine well on my old M760.  That is the balance point and where I have carried the rifle for the last 51-years. I would mount a scope on the rifle.  My old rifle has a Burris FFII 3x9 on it.  I was impressed with the scope when hunting in brush fields, old growth timber, and plantations.  Under those conditions the scopes red tinted lens provide excellent brown on brown contrast.  Without a doubt the other scopes mentioned will do the job.



The 7600 QWAC is slightly shorter then my Marlin 336 carbine, and chamber for a more powerful cartridge. 
http://www.gricegunshop.com/specials/PDFs/08.12.08/rem-specials_12.08.pdf

I like my Marlin, but it spends a lot of time at home because the M760 pump is a better option for putting a round on a deer at a couple hundred yards.



The 30-30 was idea for hunting this thick brush until I stepped out into a 200 yard long browse way.  I then felt I was pushing the limits of the rifle.

I took this year’s buck with a Remington 700 in .270 Winchester, loaded with a 150-grain bullet.  The whole side of the deer rippled when the bullet hit behind the shoulder.  On impact the deer took off running and by the time I had chambered a second round it was out of sight.  I believe I could have made that second shot with my M760.  The deer was found dead, with the bullet have exited.

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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2008, 03:28:49 AM »
Siskiyou,

Thanks for taking the time and doing the write up! I enjoyed the read.  ;D

Dave

Offline oldyardog

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2008, 05:14:40 AM »
Look at the Ruger Frontier rifle. I wouldn't take twice what I paid for it. For a low dollar set up look at a H&R 44mag with a 2x scout scope or shotgun scope.


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Offline jamaldog87

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2008, 08:50:21 AM »
Siskiyou , Nice's guns and very nice dog. the Ruger Frontier rifle is a very good gun(there was a hunting story about it in the ruger magzine) it has 2 mounts on it one receiver the other scout kind and it comes in both .338 Federal and .358 Winchester so you could hunt anything.
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2008, 12:17:15 PM »


The Ruger Frontier rifle is a very nice rifle, the short barrel versions of the Remington Model 7.  I think more of them as backpack rifles. I have a short barrel rifle chambered for a moderate velocity cartridge that is more then adequate for deer at close range.  It is a British .303 Jungle Carbine.  I think the barrel runs about twenty inches with flash hider.  It likes the Hornady 174-grain bullet.

Each of us establishes our own criteria for a rifle depending in part on our current skill levels and experience.  What maybe a good fit for me will not be a good fit for a hunting partner.  The Jungle Carbine gets left home 99% of the time, because of the sights.  I would need to look at my notebook but it shoots about 4-inches high at 100 yards with the battle sight.  From a sight standpoint it cannot compete with the scope sighted M760 or Marlin 30-30.  I think about buying a scope mount for the Jungle Carbine.  I feel a brush gun shot hit at the point of aim at 100-yards.  A balistic-plex cross hair can be used for the longer

I purchased the Jungle Carbine in 1960 and it was a good nasty weather, close range option.  I did not have to worry about a scope fogging up on me, I did not have the Marlin at the time, and it was a good fit.  The nasty recoil was not an issue off the bench.

But the Jungle Carbine has an issue when compared to the M760/M7600 pumps, lever action rifles, and autoloaders.  I consider myself a practiced hunter shooter.  I cannot get that second shot off as fast with bolt-action firearm.

I practice shooting from the right and left side.  Ergonomics of design to facilitate shooting from both sides is critical.  At this point in my life I switch from being a right-handed shooter to a left hand shooter rather easily.  In my LEO days the agency I worked for required me to qualify with my duty firearms from the strong and weak side.

Many times I have found it to my advantage to take game from my left side because of the relationship of game to the vegetation.  The difference in getting a shot could be shifting the hunting arm to an opposite shoulder.  As a left-eye dominate person, who is right handed a hunting arm equipped with a properly focus scope has been a life saver.  I have updated the scopes on the M760 a number of times.  I could plan on fogging issues back in the 1960’s but I have not had that problem with later scopes.


In theory we want the first shot to count, it does not always put game down.  In a narrow window of opportunity that seems to be measure in a nano second there maybe a second shot opportunity.   I know that “I” cannot make an accurate second shot as fast with a bolt-action rifle as I can with an autoloader, pump, or lever action.

The location of the safety on a firearm is critical.  Two of the bolt-action rifles I hunt with have a Tang safety, which makes them user friendly for the strong and weak side shooter.  My older Marlin 336 uses the half-cock safety feature.  The hammer extension/expander allows the user to easily cock or lower the hammer.  The downside is that the hammer extinction on my Marlin is installed in favor of the right-hand shooter.  I am going to see if the Carlson Ambidextrous Hammer Expander will fit my rifle. 

I believe adaptive technique over comes some issues. I believe that changing the safety on Remington pump or automatic series from right to left hand may generate safety and liability issues.  As an ambidextrous shooter I have adapted my technique when using my M760 from the left side.  I also used this technique successfully with the M870 shotgun.

Left side Carry:

The forearm of the rifle is in the right hand.  The left palm is on the outside of the stock to the rear of the trigger guard.  The fingers of the left hand are in position that the trigger finger is in a “cup” position can push the safety button off safe.  The thumb of the left hand can easily push the safety button to the safe position.

With few exceptions the majority of bolt-action rifles are setup to be shot from the right side and the safety release better accommodates the right handed shooter.  I have a couple of bolt-action rifles that has safeties that accommodate the ambidextrous shooter and speed things up over all.  A tang safety Ruger M77 Tang Safety in 7MM Magnum which I do not consider a brush gun for deer because of it’s weight, and 24-inch barrel.  And a Savage 110CL in .270 Winchester.  The Savage has been a favored rifle many times 40-years, but when it comes to hunting heavy cover I default to the M760.

Many times I have taken deer at the same distance I have shot Mountain Quail and Grouse at in the same brush field with a pump shotgun.  There are times when the extent of the bird population overwhelms me, and I trade my rifle for a shotgun.  I carry a few rifle slugs with me just in case.  The point is the same topography and vegetation requires a fast action firearm.




The dog belongs to my daughter-in-law.  I was dog setting while they were on a cruise.  The dog has all the right instincts for a hunting dog, but that is not his lot in life.  He loved going out with me.  The dog has had good training and managing him in the outdoors is easy.  He is a pet and good companion.  If he were mine he would have a lot of outdoor experience.

My dog was put down because of fast growing cancer.  I have not replaced him nor am I likely to own another dog.  The “Libs” have so stepped all over dog owners that owning a dog is no longer a pleasure.

 




There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline alleyyooper

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2009, 12:33:20 PM »
I have two rifles for hunting the thick stuff.
Remington Model 7 chambered for the 7mm08 with a Pentex 2x7 light seeker scope. 
Second is a Winny model 94 chambered in winny 32 special and a marble peep sight. I've had it the longest but I some times have some long range cramberry bogs to shoot across the 7mm08 is my favorite.

 ;D  Al
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Offline charles p

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 05:14:28 PM »
Learn to hunt quail in clearcuts down south.  Then once you have the skill and feel of a fast handling shotgun, you have an idea what a similar bush rifle should feel like and how it must point instively.  Learn to shoot with very low power scopes with both eyes open.

You now have a bush rifle.  I have a Rem 742 with a Leupold 1X4 that I jump shoot deer with.  I hunt with this when the water is high and the weather is very cold.  Often the water is frozen.  I look for deer bedded on dry high spots.  I flush them into the water and ice where they make lots of noise on their escape.  I run like heck to get a line of sight and hopefully a shot.  This takes a bush gun in my opinion.

Offline rickt300

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2009, 05:51:32 AM »
I think it would depend on how you hunt your brushy area.  If you sneak along expecting to jump your deer and then shoot then a fast handling rifle with a bullet that will penetrate a lot of deer is the way to go, 30-30, 35 Remington, 44 mag, 444, and 45-70 would be my choices.  If you tend to get to a stand before daylight and sit watching trails all day then just about any rifle will do as long as it isn't too unhandy to carry. I never expect my bullet to get thru much brush, preferring to shoot "clean".
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Offline Davemuzz

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2009, 06:58:00 AM »
I think when you say the word "Brush" it means different things to different hunters depending upon where in the country they are located....and even where they hunt. Brush to a fellow in Georgia or Texas (and I'm guessing on this as I've never hunted in either State) may be as thick as a good bowl of chile that's been on the stove since mid-morning. Thick to me may mean some brush that allows me to still see the outline of the deer....even where the white hair and the brow hair line runs.

However, we could probably all agree that the "size" of the brush gun means something a bit shorter in length, and quick to bring to shoulder, off the safe, lines up with the eye naturally and just plain hits where we see. 'Cause these brush guns are a whole lot easier to carry when your walkin on your knees 'n elbows and your 10 feet away from hoof's and still thinkin "how can I get this shot off"?

Dave

Offline 243dave

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2009, 06:41:12 PM »
My 94 winchester trapper ae(16"barrel) chambered in 45colt is my favorite. A 1.5 x 4.5 bushnell banner shotgun scope sets on top in quick detachable mounts. Its good for 150yds with 300gr xtp mags loaded with a bunch of h-110. The old 45 colt hits hard and in the trapper its the perfect size to be truely handy.   Dave

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2009, 11:04:53 AM »
Not 'xactly a rifle but a Rem 870 with a Red Dot sight just screams fast close work to me. Get a rifled tube and sabot slugs it likes, and you can get pretty good results out at 150 yds too.
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Offline okielectrician

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2009, 11:44:11 AM »
I agree its never a good idea to shoot through brush but sometimes you have to track a blood trail through some thick stuff to the point of being on hands and knees(been there done that)and I always take my Win 94 30-30 its light,short and it always shot straight regardless how I treated it getting to where the trail takes me.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: brush rifle
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2009, 12:01:30 PM »
i  like 3X9 scope
3 power most of the time for close/clear/quick shots
but turn it all  the up to 9  so as to better spot a twig  that my be in the bullet path if you have the time

a shot barrel
action type irrelevent as the first shot is what matters most....bolt is quietest with a fallow up shot
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