Author Topic: disappointed in Gunstocks inc (Read 1848 times)

tigmaned · « **on:** December 01, 2006, 09:58:49 AM »

just wondering if any one else has had this problem with Gunstocks Inc?
i ordered a walnut stinger buttstock for my t.c contender- $60 plus $12 shipping.
it comes and i opened the box and before i took it out of the bubble wrap i notice a small chip right at the top 90 degrees from where the butt plate would go about the size of a kernal of corn. to me a $60 unfinished stock should not have a chip in it any where? so i E-mail gunstocks inc and explained where the chip was and Ed said to send it back, $8 shipping. Ed gets it back and sends me a E-mail saying where the chip was will be cut off when the butt pad is installed and he would not send me another stock but if i wanted that one with the chip back it would cost me another $12 to ship it back again to me. so i asked him why didn't you say that before i sent it back?? plus i wanted stock as long as it can be, i mean isn't that why you get a unfinished stock so you can finish it like you want. well all be said and done i told him to keep it i couldn't see spending $32 just for shipping so i am out $27 on the deal. they also got me for a re-stocking charge too. i am totally disappointed in the whole deal, them not giving a you know what and will not do business with them again. just wanted others to know.

Heavy C · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2006, 12:55:27 PM »

I'm sorry you had such a bad a experience. I've ordered two different stocks from them without any issues. I'm surprised Ed took that approach.

jw4570 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2006, 01:54:52 PM »

If it was a credit card purchase, just contest it with your credit card company. What if you didn't want a Buttpad, but just a flat plastic or steel buttplate?

I've found that when people learn the credit card company is going to tell them the customer won't get their money back, they decide just to refund all your money. You might still be out your $8 return shipping though, but it beats the $27, and it shows a merchant they can't treat customers like that.

Especially if you have emails where he admitted there was a chip. Just contact your CC company, they'll send you a form, print all the emails, attach as proof, and see where it goes from there. Might call the CC company, see if they are going to be on your side, then tell them to send the form. Call Gunstocks back, tell them you talked to the CC company, they are sending you a dispute form, and you are filling it out and mailing it. Don't threaten them, but sometimes they might chirp up and give you back all your money. If they say fine, go ahead, then just follow thru. His precious time will get eaten up dealing with the situation, or else he will lose his money if he doesn't respond to their inquiry.

I have nothing agaisnt the company either, as I have received a satisfactory product before. But if the company doesn't do the right thing, I usually stand up and do my best to make sure they do, otherwise, they just learned that crapping on the customer keeps them money rolling in.

tigmaned · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2006, 12:11:23 AM »

jw
i didn't think to save the E-mails?? dose that matter for the CC dispute?

and i am glad you see it my way about what if i wanted a flat butt plate, but ed at Gunstocks inc didn't?

jw4570 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2006, 01:29:19 AM »

I don't know, but the emails would have been nice, no way to recover?

The CC company will probably call him and hear his side too, so it would have been good to have the emails in case the story changes or something. Best thing to do is call the CC company and explain it to them and see what they say. My CC company (Chase actually) has been real helpful over the years. Only once was it not worth sending back as I learn a person usually has to pay the return shipping and loses that. In that case, I decided it wasn't worth $5 and time to sending something back to return a $7 part that I might could use someday. Oh well.

Just call your CC company and see if they can help you. Like I said, you'll have to fill out a dispute form, and you need to be honest about the situation, and explain why this isn't acceptable to you. It's going to take a little of your time, and you could end up losing, but it looks like you don't have anything to lose. Also, you must file the dispute with so many days (60?) of the original charge. Call your CC this weekend, they are usually open and it's a toll free call.

JW

roostertails · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2006, 06:14:52 AM »

All of Gunstocks Inc. T/C stocks are advertised as being "manufactured to have a standard 14 1/2" LOP with a 1/2" pad installed" which would also mean a 15" LOP with a 1" pad. This is stated on there website on each item description page and on there recoil pad page. If no recoil pad is ordered installed with the stock they do not cut off any excess wood on the stock, it is up to the customer to cut the stock to the right length. You obviously ordered a stock without a pad and it is up to you to cut the stock to the correct length. If you wanted a stock longer than the standard LOP then you should have ordered it as such, this is also stated on there website. If you didn't want a pad but wanted a plastic or steel buttplate then you should have calculated the LOP you needed to have and ordered the stock accordingly.
The portion that would need to be cut off could contain chips knots or other imperfections in the wood which will be removed when the excess wood is cut off, in you case the corn kernel size chip would be removed when the stock is cut off.
I have ordered several T/C stocks from them both with and without recoil pads installed, the stocks that I ordered without a pad needed 1" cut off to bring the stock to the correct LOP. I have found Gunstocks Inc. products have very good workmanship and the folks there are very helpful and accommodating. I will order more stocks from them when I get the money as I believe they have the best selection of t/c stocks on the market. ( just my opinion from previous dealings with them and other stock makers ).
Assuming you read the item description page for the stock you ordered, I don't believe you have a legit gripe as it appears you received exactly what you ordered. As far as a credit card dispute I don't think you will gain anything because Gunstocks Inc. has a return policy on there website which is filed with all cc companies, if you have a legit gripe then you might gain something but if your complaint is not legit and gunstocks Inc. can prove they sent you what you ordered then you can't win. GSI manufactures unfinished stocks which means as stated on their site the stocks will need sanding, if GSI wanted to get technical about the chip they can probably sand it away and claim that was something you could have done therefore charging you a fee for doing the sanding.
I question your whole explanation of the experience you had with gunstocks inc. one reason being a Stinger stock is more than $60.00, reason two is a company with their reputable reputation of doing business doesn't deney a clam unless they have a good reason.
I would think they will have a response after they read this accusation you have made.
It discusses me to see a post such as yours bashing someone for what appears to me as being just someone wanting something different than what they ordered and trying to blame it on someone else.

stuffit · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2006, 07:25:06 AM »

I've done business with these folks and they were good to me. I think that many misunderstandings and miscommunications in transactions like this often stem from insufficient information exchange with email communications. I reckon I'm old fashion but whenever possible, I like to use telephone conversation/communications for as many aspects of this sort of transaction as possible. It's always worked for me. Sometimes you have to be patient to get you call through at the right time, but it beats emails all to heck. And that old maxim aboiut the "honey vs vinegar" approach to getting good results in any interaction is always true and well advised.

stuffit

tigmaned · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2006, 01:19:54 PM »

roostertail
yeah you know your right i got the name of the stock i ordered the T/C Contender Buttstock/w Rollover cheek-piece "Right hand".
but i am sorry i don't adgree with what your saying with the LOP deal. that chip was about 3/8" long and i wanted to keep the LOP as it came. THATS why i ordered a un-finished stock so i could do it may way. i didn't need to order a extra long one i am only 5'10" but i didn't want to cut any off. i wanted a nice stock(not a blemished one) i could finish sand put a butt pad on and call it a day. and the ONE thing you are missing i told ED at gunstocks where the chip was and not once did he say, OH THATS THE PART YOU CUT OFF WHEN YOU PUT A BUTT PAD ON! if he had said that i would have kept it and lived with it. BUT he said to send it back and after that iis when the deal went south. and AFTER he had the stock back he told me about the LOP deal. you want to do business with them thats fine with me, i am just telling you my side, thats all. i don't like being taken for a ride and looseing $27 doing it. and still no stock. well Gunstocks Inc made $27 bucks on me and i am sure the next guy that pays $60 for the same stock mite be happy with it?

Gunstocks Inc. · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2006, 05:18:23 AM »

tigmaned

The stock you purchased was clearly described in the item description on our website. ( LOP ) "T/C buttstocks are made to have a 14" Length of pull and will require at least a 1/2" pad for a 14 1/2" standard LOP".http://www.gunstocksinc.com/web%20pages/Plate%20Pic's/TC%20thumbhole%20image%20pages/discription_copy(17).htm
There is also a LOP description here on our recoil pad page.http://www.gunstocksinc.com/web%20pages/discription_copy(1).htm
You ordered a stock with out a recoil pad, we do not cut the excess wood off of the butt when a stock is ordered this way, We have found that customers that order the T/C stocks without pads installed usually have their own particular/special plan of installing a pad, such as a special pad, pad thickness, pitch angle, etc., when we cut a stock and install a pad, the pad is installed at a standard LOP and standard pitch angle. WE do NOT remove the excess wood from a stock that is ordered without a pad, we feel the excess wood allows the customer ample wood to work with for there special modifications to the butt of the stock. If we cut the butt at a standard angle and LOP usually there would not be enough wood left for the customer to make his/her special modifications.
As can be seen in the picture of the butt the chip is at the end of the stock.
AS can be seen in the pictures I have provided, the stock needs approx. 1" of excess wood removed to allow the 14 1/2" LOP with a 1/2" pad and approx. 1 1/2" will need to be removed if using a 1" pad. the removal of this wood will remove the chipped portion of wood along with the holes in the butt that are used to attach the stock to the carving machine while the stock is being made and any other defects in that potion of the stock.
You told me on the phone the stock was chipped and defective, I in return told you to send the stock back and IF it was in deed defective we would replace it. when we received the stock it was determined that the stock was not defective for the reasons I have explained, I explained all of this to you when I informed you the stock was NOT defective.
After and only after we informed you the stock was not defective because the chip would be removed when the excess wood was removed, you then informed me that you wanted to use the stock with a longer than standard LOP and the chip would interfere.
The stock you ordered was only intended to be used with a standard LOP as described in the item description, if you wanted a stock that was to be used with a longer than standard LOP then you were told you would need to order the stock as such which would be a special order and extra charges would apply.
In all reality this stock could be used with a longer LOP as the chip is a very minor irregularity and can be easily sanded away, We leave plenty of wood on the stocks to allow for minor modifications and sanding by the customer. I am very sorry that you are disappointed with our product but the stock is exactly as described and Gunstocks Inc. stands firm with their decision.

ED

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2006, 05:26:19 AM »

Thanks for your comments Ed. I went to your site to get contact info to inform you of this thread but saw the notice you were closed down for the holiday so decided to wait until Monday to try to contact you. I've added the Site Sponsor to your status since you've now registered with us.

majorKAP · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2006, 06:38:08 AM »

If the photo of the stock in question was used as an example pictured on the Gunstocks Inc. website, nobody would ask for that particular one, would they?

Seems to me, at least, that a businessman would simply send the customer what he expected to have received in the first place, instead of admonishing him for not having accurately read the item description on the website...misspellings and all not withstanding. Sell the stock to the next guy who might not mind receiving that particular specimen.

Make the customer happy, and then talk bad about him if you must, after you're finished with him. That goes far in preventing a customer from venting his dissatisfaction on such a public forum. Sometimes it makes sense to concede vs. standing firm with one's decision while standing on shaky ground.

That's just my useless opinion. Folk's are free to do business how they see fit.

tigmaned · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2006, 11:26:18 AM »

i think every one is missing my point here, and that includes Gunstocks inc.
when i found the chip and sent you a E-mail telling you where it was, YOU DID NOT TELL ME ANY OF THIS LOP STUFF. YOU SAID SEND IT BACK, SO I DID. THEN AFTER YOU GOT IT, YOU SAID IF I WANTED THE SAME CHIPPED STOCK IT WOULD COST ME ANOTHER $12 BUCKS SHIPPING ON TOP OF THE FIRST $12 I PAID PLUS THE $8 IT COST ME TO SEND IT TO YOU. WHEN ALLS YOU HAD TO DO WAS SAY LOOK PAL THAT CHIP IS WHERE YOU SHOULD CUT IT OFF FOR THE LOP AND THE BUTT PAD. AND WOULD SAID OH, O.K AND WOULD HAVE KEPT IT AND SANDED THE CHIP OUT. BUT I DID WHAT YOU SAID TO DO, SEND IT BACK. NOW I AM OUT $27 BUCKS AND NO STOCK THAT I REALLY WANTED.OH WE NEVER TALKED ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS AND ALLS YOU SAID WAS SEND IT BACK! ARE YOU TRING TO SAVE FACE??

o.k. guys that picture of the stock he posted was not even the same stock i got, but if you got that stock would you be happy with that chip in it?? to me a $60 stock should not have chip any where in it, even in a area you may cut off, but thats just me maybe?

roostertails · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2006, 12:39:15 PM »

That little chip is nothing and could be sanded out in a minute or two with a palm sander if you wanted to use the entire length of the stock, after all these are unfinished stocks and it states right on their website the stocks will need sanding. I have seen allot worse from other stockmakers. Your point is well taken but unjustified as far as I can see.
The chip should not even be an issue as it is on the portion of the stock that needs to be removed, if they had cut the stock off and sent it to you it would not be any different than if you cut it off. The chip would be gone!!
It sounds like you opened the box and seen a chip in the stock and started hollering defect without even doing any measuring for LOP. If you would have measured you would have found that the stock was to long and needed to be cut off and therefore you would have realized the stock was not defective.

It looks like to me you returned a stock needlessly so why would you expect GSI to pay for any shipping? After all you are the one that declared to them the stock was defective. I am positive if the stock had been defective they would have replaced it free of charge.

tigmaned · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2006, 11:19:48 PM »

5Redman8 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2006, 08:41:08 AM »

When Gunstock Inc first came out out on Ebay, I bought one and I was extremely DISAPPOINTED. It did not even come close to fitting. Cannot remember exactly what the deal was but it was way loose on the action....wiggled an extreme amount. Did not contact Gunstock Inc. for a replacement. Just figured I got what I paid for. Ended up fully disclosing the problem and sold it to someone who was going to pillar bed it and make it work. From that point on, I made my own or paid more and got better products.

Kyle

roostertails · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2006, 12:38:24 PM »

Personal attacks will not be allowed

tigmaned · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2006, 01:23:26 PM »

gee roostertail, gunstock's inc must be luckly to have some one so happy with there products!! or do you work for them?
the clown remark is funny to??

jason280 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2006, 02:34:47 PM »

Let's keep this civil...

tigmaned · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2006, 03:18:33 PM »

i just want to say to the other readers i didn't mean it to get ugly? and didn't think it could but it did? sorry for the others that couldn't take the truth.

roostertails · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2006, 04:03:35 PM »

No I don't work for GSI but I have purchased many stocks from them and have been well satisfied with their products, customer relations, policies, etc. etc... I am sure they have better things to do than Argue and bicker on an online forum like a bunch of little kids.
But me on the other hand I can get into this stuff. I feel as a satisfied repeat GSI customer the need to support and defend, even though all of you have the right to voice your opinion I feel there have been complaints made that are unjustified.
If a person receives an item from a manufacturer that is defective and that person doesn't even bother to contact the manufacturer to ask what could be done, then that person must not be very disappointed. But then that person can complain to everyone else except the person they should be complaining to. In my book the credibility of such a person just went south along with the credibility of their story.

Gunstocks Inc. · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2006, 05:03:35 PM »

tigmaned

As a member of the Concord Merchants group, we retain all files, correspondence and communications for any item we have issued a credit card refund for per our return policy agreement. We retain all files and information and/or items for the sole purpose of future reference and/or any future claims on the transaction.

After reviewing the file for your transaction, I must apologize to you as I have found that there was no telephone conversation and all correspondence was by email. I have included a quote which is email in which you informed us of the defective stock. Also in this email you had already determined that you were going to return the stock and you were wondering if you needed a number to do so.

The picture I posted in this thread, is the exact stock that you returned to us. If need be, I am sure your fingerprints and/or DNA can be acquired from the stock, bubble wrap, shipping box, etc. The stock in the picture which is the stock you returned, has the ship in the exact same place you described in your complaint. Why do you think the stock in the picture is not the one you returned to us?

If you are going to make such a wild accusation, it is possible that you could be required to prove it.

Again, I will say that you returned a stock that was not defective. You made the choice not to have it shipped back to you and opted to have us issue a refund to your credit card per our return policy. You were given a link to our return policy on our website which you read. You made your own choices.

ED

Quote

----- Original Message -----

From: Petrucci, Edward A MSgt 459 MXS/MXMF

To: info@gunstocksinc.com

Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 12:58 PM

Subject: chipped in stock

Hello at Gunstocks inc.

I just got my order of a walnut rear butt stock for my t/c contender. Well I opened the box and before I even removed your bubble wrap I noticed a kernel of corn size chip and the very top at the rear of the stock. So I am not sure do I need some kind of return number or some thing before I send it back?

Thanks

address removed by Graybeard at member's request.

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2006, 02:42:49 AM »

I believe this one has run its course. Both sides have had their say and now folks are beginning to chose up sides and bash. That's NOT the purpose of this site.

It would appear you had made up your mind to return the stock even before discussion with Ed at Gunstocks, Inc. from the e-mail quoted. So it would seem you bear the burden. It's always best to ask more questions up front rather than regret later. You're not buying a finished stock from them but an unfinished one that requires a fair bit of work to turn it into a finished product. It seems to be you failed to adequately understand that up front and thus the predicament you got into.

Please any further concerns you have on the matter take it up with Ed at Gunstocks, Inc. directly. A lot of their stocks have been sold to GBO members and yours is the only complaint I've heard of so far.

So the thread is locked down.