Bedding advice for a Mannlicher stock

[josquin]

I recently acquired a M-S carbine in 6.54 x54, not a sporter but a military action that had been rebarrelled and restocked. It shot rather indifferently (1.25" @ 50 yards) with the 140 gn(?) spitzer-loaded ammo the seller included. I checked the bedding and found that the "glass bedding" was really iffy, with a few contact points along the action and barrel channel. So I re-bedded the action only, bore-sighted it, loaded up some 160 gn Hornady RN and headed for the range.

I only loaded up 20 rounds, with increasing charges from 32 to 35 gn. of RL15 as this was my first time out with my own loads, and I only shot 2-shot "groups", just to get an idea of how it might shoot. At 50 yds., the groups were strung about 2" vertically, plus about 8" to left of the aiming point (!!!)  To make a long story short, I re-tightened the action and scope mounting screws (using a Weaver 2.x in a side mount), and fired my last 4 rounds at 100 yards, having put a shim under the muzzle to put a little pressure there. Having corrected for windage, the first two were again about 2" vertically, but the last two were side by side and about 7/8" apart, so by that point it seems it might have settled down.

Obviously there is something wrong here, I was shooting slowly, so the barrel got warm but never hot. Plus I ran a couple of patches through in the middle of the session.

It would appear that the pressure point at the muzzle might be a good thing, but an aternative would be to properly full-length bed the rifle. However, I thought I'd put out some feelers out to see what people's opinions are as regards bedding Mannlicher-stocked rifles before i have another go with it.

Many thanks,

Stuart

[gunnut69]

Now that's a fortunate question indeed as I'm getting ready to finish a mannlicher stocked rifle for a close friend.. I have thought it over and thru these many years I've had the most luck having stabile long term accuracy with a barrel being full length bedded. I can always add pressure if required but will start with a full length bedded action and barrel. The Forearm section will be stiffened with bedding material and the action vedded first followed by the barrel in a second pour. I'll likely inlett the fore end cap last.. after the bedding is essentially complete. This is import to me as my next few projects look to be mannlicher stocked rifles..a Browning T-bolt, a M7 Remington in 7-08, and a mauser soon to get a new 338 Federal barrel.. Please keep us informed as to how this project pans out for you. If the past I've only done 5-6 mannlincher stocks. They having largely fallen out of favor to the heavy barreled 'bean field' guns, then the behemoths like the Ultra mags and now to the lilliputs like the SSM's. All of these have their place but then so does the mannlicher..

[josquin]

gunnut69,

Thanks for your comments. I think I'll re-do the bedding and do it full-length. I have also heard of stiffening the forearm by inletting and glassing in graphite rods (salvaged from discarded fishing rods!) , which might also be worth thinking about.  I've done bedding before but this rifle seems to be a bit of a challenge, so it obviously isn't going to cooperate without a fight!

Some previous owner had done some not-too-subtle things to it but it is wrth salvaging. I also want to put a decent set of open sights on it. The 2.5x is probably about right for this rifle but, like a lever action, its trimness is compromised by the addition of a scope.

I'll post more information after the latest surgery.

Stuart

[gunnut69]

The fishing rods taper and that caauses some problems. Talk to the guy at the local archery shop or range. Arrow tubing makes great stiffening material. It's rigid and light weight and usually free.. The new carbon fiber shafts should work fine.  Be sure to clean and lightly roughen the surface so the bedding compound can get a good mechanical bond.

[josquin]

The fishing rods taper and that causes some problems. Talk to the guy at the local archery shop or range. Arrow tubing makes great stiffening material. It's rigid and light weight and usually free.. The new carbon fiber shafts should work fine.  Be sure to clean and lightly roughen the surface so the bedding compound can get a good mechanical bond.

[/size]

Good point. As I was clearing out the barrel channel a while ago (and realized that there were still a couple of potential contact points, esp. around the collar around the barrel that is the rear sight base)  I realized that whatever I put in there will have to be pretty thin. Probably just one arrow shaft in the centre will do.

Stuart

[gunnut69]

I've never used the carbon fiber ones but the aluminum shafts come in various outside diameters. The light target shafts are great for the tight spots. Be sure to seal the ends to keep the interiors air filled.. holds down the weight..

[josquin]

I've never used the carbon fiber ones but the aluminum shafts come in various outside diameters. The light target shafts are great for the tight spots. Be sure to seal the ends to keep the interiors air filled.. holds down the weight..

I picked up a couple of 1/4" OD carbon fibre shafts at the local shop this mornng and have just finished hogging out the stock. I am amazed how light and rigid they are!   Because of the slender profile of the stock I have decided to only use one but it certainly can't hurt, plus the epoxy will help stiffen things.  Thanks for the advice re sealng the ends.

Stuart

[Harry O]

Having corrected for windage, the first two were again about 2" vertically, but the last two were side by side and about 7/8" apart, so by that point it seems it might have settled down.
Stuart

I have an original M-1910 Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 9.5x57MS caliber.  It is a take-down model.  After it is taken down and put back together, it takes 10 or more rounds before it stops climbing and settles down.  The recoil of the fired cartridge does the "final" bedding after hand tightening it down.  You don't go into many details, but if you assembled the gun before going to the range, I would expect that many rounds to settle down.

The original M-1910 has an original stock and there is no "bedding" as we know it now.  It is hand-cut in incredible detail following the curves and corners of the metal.  However, where the metal is immediately ahead of wood (and will be driven backward with recoil) are the only real important places.

The next time you take it apart, you will have to do the same again.

[josquin]

...The original M-1910 has an original stock and there is no "bedding" as we know it now.  It is hand-cut in incredible detail following the curves and corners of the metal.  However, where the metal is immediately ahead of wood (and will be driven backward with recoil) are the only real important place...

Thanks for this. As I read your post I recalled an article by Ross Seyfried in Rifle Magazine on a .256 Mannlicher of his (essentially the same cartridge, only rimmed, as I recall) where he stated that it remained zeroed and shot to POI with the original sights after a century- no fancy glass bedding or synthetic stocks, etc. That sort of workmanship is pretty rare these days! 

I have now full-length (re-)bedded the action and will see how it does. But yes, you are no doubt correct that it will take quite a few rounds to settle down after being reassembled and is something to consider when I hopefully go on an African plains game safari in a couple of years, as I have been thinking of disassembling my rifle (in this case a very nice BSA-sporterized P-14 which will be reamed to .303 Epps) for easier and less conspicuous packing. I will certainly check how it shoots before and after reassembly before I go and only do so if it settles down fairly quickly.

This M-S project is certainly teaching me a lot, hopefully most of which will be retained in the old grey matter for future projects.

Stuart

[gunnut69]

Of course there is bedding there, it's just that we've come to think of bedding as being epoxy. On the old rifles the wood was the bedding media. It takes tremendous skill and time to properly bed a rifle that well.. something in short supply these days. The glass beeding we use is superior in both installation and precision to hand bedding. No matter their skill the epoxy can even give you a reverse image of witness/proof marks on the underside of the barrel.. The main reasan their bedding held up so well was the quality of the wood they use. Hard and air dried with nearly perfect grain flow, they were very chosey! I think the old mannlicher will do well once the bedding settles down.. Good luck..

[Brithunter]

Hi Guys,

      Errr josquin,

      Any chance of a photo of that BSA P-14. I would really ;like to see one. Any idea of which BSA model it is? they did 5 versions named A-E.

      This is a model E :-





    You don't see many of these about now  .

      Now as to Full stocked rifles ..................... I only have one a fairly modern one made in 1984. It's a BSA CF2 Stutzen and it has a small pressure point near the muzzle and shoots very nicely. It still retains it's factory wood bedding. I will agree that the old rifles had superior wood as I have little fatih in the Kiln drying method.

[josquin]

Hi Guys,

      Errr josquin,

      Any chance of a photo of that BSA P-14. I would really like to see one. Any idea of which BSA model it is? they did 5 versions named A-E...

Well, you learn something every day (hopefully). I didn't know about the various models. 

Here is mine:


Now as to the model, I have no idea. Nothing marked on the receiver as far as I can tell, unless it's underneath the rear scope mount.

I was lucky with this one- a previous owner had already glass-bedded it and fitted a Timney trigger. All I did was refinish the stock and put a better shim under the rear scope mount. I picked it up about a year and a half ago for $150.00.

Stuart