Unsucessful Deer Hunters

[jpsmith1]

Are there any others like me out there? 

I'm going into my 19th year in the deer woods and I still haven't put a buck on the ground.  I've shot a few does and had only one opportunity at a buck.  My first year, I froze on a little fork horn and couldn't pull the trigger.  Haven't seen one in deer season since.

Am I all alone in the world?

[dukkillr]

try a new spot?  what state do you live in?

[nabob]

Nope. I started hunting at a young age and only started getting successful when I stopped listening to my father and started reading about how other people were successful. We used to go out a few weekends, maybe, and over the Thanksgiving holiday. We'd do what he did when hunting in the farmlands - put on warm clothing, find a likely spot, then wait. Never even saw a deer for 10 years.

Changed spots, changed techniques, started learning from successful hunters how to do it - started getting deer. If something ain't working, change it. I'm not successful every year but I'm a lot more successful than not. My big problem is where I hunt - not many deer and can only take bucks. Despite that, I'm still averaging about 80%. Good enough for a weekend hunter like me.

[jpsmith1]

I live in Western Pa.  Farm country.  There are good bucks here.  I've seen several.  The problem is that I never see them during the season.  I saw one on opening day of squirrel a couple of years ago.  Classic 8pt whitetail rack.  Tall and wide.  It took every ounce of self control I have not to pump a round of #6s into him  It would have been 20 yards, MAX!  It was also not the way I want my buck.

I've hunted on public and private land in 3 counties in PA.  2 here in the west and 1 up north. 

I'm slowly coming to the realization that I was never really taught how to hunt.  I was schooled that same way as you, nabob.  Dress warm and go sit on a stump and wait.  BORING!!!  I can't sit still that long.  I've been talking to people and getting some advice, just a matter of applying it now and hoping for the best.

Just starting to feel like the only one in the world.  Reading mags and books don't help because they are filled with stories about the 12 year old kid who wanders into the woods and whacks one at 8AM on opening day. 

[alsatian]

I hunt and shoot deer for the excellent meat they provide, and does are probably better meat than bucks.  Even so, 2 of my 5 deer that I have taken in my four deer hunting seasons have been bucks.  One buck had a small 3x3 rack; the other buck had a little larger but still smallish 4x4 rack.  As the first posted reply states, maybe you should check out some different hunting grounds.  One alternative is to pay for an outfitted/guided hunt somewhere, if it is important to you to get onto a big buck and you don't have access to other hunting grounds than the unproductive ones you have so far been frequenting.

Because I am a meat hunter rather than a trophy hunter, my knowledge of finding bucks is pretty slim.  Still, you should know that big bucks don't tend to hang out with the does other than during the mating season.  Bigger bucks are likely to be solitary animals that try to spend as much time as possible in deep cover.  First try to confirm there are bigger bucks on your hunting grounds through finding appropriate sign -- footprints that dig down deeply into the mud perhaps.  Try to find bedding areas of these bucks rather than bedding areas of does.  If possible, maybe hunt a place that has limited sources of water, which would tend to focus deer movement on the few existing water sources.  Obviously you need to do something different if you aren't satisfied with your results from 19 years of hunting.

Bucks are more cautious and easily spooked than does.  Maybe greater attention to scent control, camoflage, getting into your stand location early.  Maybe using a tree stand or a higher tree stand is a good idea.  Avoid getting patterned by the bucks.  Again, just because you are able to get the drop on does means little for the much more involved problem of getting the drop on a mature, willy, cautious buck.  Rethink your hunting behaviors.

Try talking with local deer hunters who ARE successful taking bucks.

[alsatian]

I'm going to send a second reply, this one directed to general principles of deer hunting, because you suggested that you may not have been taught the fundamentals very well.  First, I'm no expert and my success is probably more a result of hunting an ground with a lot of deer on it rather than my excellent hunting abilities.    The best advice is to find some hunting grounds that contains the animals you are seeking!

To fundamentals.  Deer are prey species.  They eat vegetables and carnivores eat them.  Consequently they are cautious and much of their behavior is directed to avoid being killed and eaten.  They eat in very first light and in very last light.  During the middle part of the day they lie on beds chewing their cud -- regurgitated food which they chewed off during feeding and stored in a first stomach (they have four) undigested -- and drowsing.  Hunters are well advised to locate themselves along the paths between feeding areas and bedding areas at first light and last light for best opportunities to shoot a deer.  The first two hours of legal hunting light and the last two hours of legal hunting light are likely to be the best times, when deer are most active.  Be advised that during full moon or near full moon the deer are likely to eat by moonlight, fill their bellys, and go to their bedding areas while it is still dark.  This means twilight movement will be well below expected activity levels.  Then all you can do is try to still hunt them in their bedding areas, hoping to see them before they see you or to take one with a snap shot.  I am NOT successful in this kind of still hunting activity.

Deer have very acute senses, particularly the sense of smell.  Thus, you want to locate yourself so the wind is blowing into your face when you face the direction you expect the deer to appear from .  When you move, move very slowlyl, thereby making it more difficult for deer to see you.  If you need to itch your nose, move your hand slowly.  Wear a face net to prevent your face from "flashing" as you turn your head.  Your skin is very reflective and as you turn your head the reflectivity level changes dramatically, presenting a noticeable "flash" to any animal looking at you.

Locate yourself in shadow to make it more difficult for deer to see you.  Locate yourself with objects behind you to break up your outline.  Locate yourself with objects in front of you screening your feet, lower legs, and lower torso from the view of the deer.  If possible, locate yourself with objects partially screening your upper body and head, as well, but allowing for necessary shooting lanes.  Wear gloves on your hands to avoid the reflective appearance of skin announcing your presence to the deer.

Get to your chosen location an hour before shooting light in the morning and three hours before the end of legal shooting light at the end of the day.  Sit still.  Don't make noise.  Dress warmly so you can be comfortable.  Being cold is going to make it difficult to sit still.

You need to hunt in the right places, where deer move.  If there is a lot of hunter pressure in your area this will upset deer patterns you may be able to determine during pre-season scouting.  Look particularly for "funnels," places where for one reason or another deer are encouraged to move through -- a narrow place along a stream bank where it is easy to go from the first bank, to the stream, to the second bank easily; a narrow strip of cover between two large areas of cover.  Locate an ambush looking over such "funnels" that will naturally attract concentrations of deer movement.

Talk with other successful hunters.

[lewdogg21]

I'm slowly coming to the realization that I was never really taught how to hunt. 

That right there is a huge part of it (there are zillions of factors and I could write a novel but this will be short).  Example I have is my dad was a very successfull waterfowl hunter in college and after and taught me lots.  While I'm not as good as him I do see lots of guys who are self taught or learned from somebody who wasn't very good and they struggle to kill ducks consistently b/c of the little things you don't learn in books.  I imagine your in that same unfortunate boat.  Try to find somebody who is in the know and will let you tag along.  Even if they are my age swallow some pride and make a new friend. Hope you get one this year or next.

[jpsmith1]

First off, getting a big buck isn't terribly important to me, but it seems that everyone I talk to gets one more than once every 19 years.  It's stating to feel like I'm some sort of failure because I've been unable to tag a buck.  I'm not willing to pay for it, YET, but the day may come.  Too much going out for my upcoming elk hunt right now.

I'm starting to re-evaluate everything I was ever taught about everything.  My 'formative' years of deer hunting consisted of "Go sit under that tree and I'll put on a drive."  No reason or rhyme, no explanations about why I was here rather than there and, at the time, I didn't think to ask.  I turned 16 and was turned loose on my own.  I've stumbled through the woods for years marvelling at the amount of white flags I see.  I'd like to think that I've got the bare basics down, but that is open to debate.

My plan is this:  Hunt this year and TRY to change things, but I still don't know enough and do not expect much success.  During the off-season, I've had a couple of books recommended to me and plan on buying and reading them to learn a little more about deer behavior.  Along with reading, I plan on getting in more field time.  Learning where the bedding and feeding areas are along with the escape routes that I hear so much about.

Most of my hunting in gun hunting, but I'm thinking about picking up my bow and practicing with it, both to get a longer season and to get in the woods during the rut, when, I guess that there is a better chance of catching a big buck with a snoot full of hot doe while he's thinking with his 'little buck'.

[SDS-GEN]

If there are does in your area there have to be bucks.  You should definitely try archery hunting.  You will learn a lot about deer while hunting them with a bow and the extended season takes a lot of pressure off of you. You can also shoot the first doe you see in October with your bow and hunt the rest of the season for a buck, if you don't get one youv'e at least got a doe in the freezer.  Also search for shed antlers in the late winter/early spring, this will give you an idea of the kinds of bucks in your area.   

[rickyp]

I guess I have been lucky I have been hunting for almost 25 years since I was about 12. I started with an old bear whit tail hunter compound bow this bow was all brown and a black quiver. I was self tought and hunted on a horse farm near me I saw a lot of deer I never killed one but I learned every time I saw one. when I was 18 I got a Job  as a navy fire fighter and the guys that hunt took me under there wings and took me along with them This is where I took my first deer it wasa nice Button buck  I learned a lot with them guys, a few years after that they left the Fire service and I was stuck on public land. I always saw deer but was never able to get a shot.Now I have  a private farm  to hunt on (for now) and have learned a lot since I started. in the past 7 years I have taken at least 3 deer a year and when I dont take one it is because I missed not because I didnt see any. so far this year I have killed 2 small does. I have taken a few shots with my bow but missed (1 buck and 1 doe).

The main thing to do is stay with it and learn, get out in the woods and look around and learn. You can read all the books you can find but you reallt need to be in the woods.

[beemanbeme]

The more time you can spend in the woods BEFORE deer season, the better your luck usually is. And you are looking for buck signs not just deer signs.  There is nothing wrong with stand hunting.  Too many deer are killed each year by stand hunters to say otherwise.  And very few folks can indian-up on a deer in the fall east of the big river.  The point is, you've got to have your stand where the deer are using.  And you learn that by pre-scouting.  A final point on standing.  If you can't be still, you'll never be a good hunter. Period. If you're at it constantly with the candy bars, sandwiches, pop, cigarettes, cell phones any deer you luck into will be exactly that. 
Stay in the woods.  Stay on stand.  If you have to go back to camp or whatever, try to stay an hour longer than the other folks.  And get on stand an hour earlier.  To be honest, on public or open hunting land, I would be reluctant to do any still hunting.  Too many droolers in the woods making what they call "sound shots" where they blindly blaze away at any noise and then go see what they've murdered.  When I go to stand in the pre-dawn, I carry a flashlight; if I come in during the day, I make no pretense at being quiet, and after dark, I carry a flashlight coming out of the woods.

[dw06]

The more time you can spend in the woods BEFORE deer season, the better your luck usually is. And you are looking for buck signs not just deer signs.  There is nothing wrong with stand hunting.  Too many deer are killed each year by stand hunters to say otherwise.  And very few folks can indian-up on a deer in the fall east of the big river.  The point is, you've got to have your stand where the deer are using.  And you learn that by pre-scouting.  A final point on standing.  If you can't be still, you'll never be a good hunter. Period. If you're at it constantly with the candy bars, sandwiches, pop, cigarettes, cell phones any deer you luck into will be exactly that. 
Stay in the woods.  Stay on stand.  If you have to go back to camp or whatever, try to stay an hour longer than the other folks.  And get on stand an hour earlier. 

Bingo!I agree with all of what beemanbeme said.The two biggest things are you can't kill a deer that ain't there,and movement is your're worst enemy period.On first point many hunters hunt for the big one,I've killed enough big ones to tell you,the only place to hunt them is where they have been seen and are known to be,so preseason scouting is essential,so in you're case you just want a buck,get out and find bucks before season learn where they are traveling and find a good spot where you can ambush it and kill it!
 Second point movement,deer have eyesight that will pick up movement like you wouldn't believe,while learning to hunt deer you will make them aware of you're presence by movement many more times than by smell,although you still need to take their sense of smell into account as the closer they get they will bust you.So dress warm so you don't get chilled and learn to move slow,watch deer and you will learn their body language which will help to know when they spot you,when you can or can't move,when they are on high aleart and when relaxed.
 Now get out there and find out where they are,and kill one.Oh yea and sent me a picture so I can enjoy you're success!!

[joshco84]

i am verry sorry to hear about your predicament.  i feel bad for you since i killed what we consider a small one and he was about 110 inches (still not huge, but not small either)  also on the first day of doe season this year i had to wait 45 minutes for a shot on a doe, there was ten bucks in the field and there was no opportunity to shoot.  so i tell you what, if they get the best of you this year, pm me and you will have a free hunt in kansas next year (minus tag and license)  even room and board and meals, and i would almost even garuantee you shooting a buck.

[HuntingGuy]

I froze on a little fork horn and couldn't pull the trigger.  Haven't seen one in deer season since.

  What happened???

...Location, location, location - the guys who shoot big bucks are the ones with private land or that hunt vacant state wildlife areas.  I sat out the other night on some state land, sounded like a gall darn shooting range - no wonder guys don't do so hot.  On private and public land alike, follow the trails - sit over them, and sit some more.  Pattern the deer, figure out where they are feeding and where they are bedding.

[squirrel_hunter6]

Jpsmith1,

I am a self learned deer hunter. My dad never hunted and rarely fished. He just isn’t the outdoor type. I had always wanted to go hunting but I could never talk my dad in to going. My dad has a friend that owns 77 acres with about 40 of it hardwoods. We got permission to hunt out there and I was able to talk my and dad into letting me and friend go hunting by ourselves. I took my dad’s old iron sighted 30-30 with me that morning. This gun had less than a box fired through it its entire life. This was my friend’s and I first time to ever go deer hunting and I had no idea were to go and sit so, I got to the woods a little after daylight. As soon as I walked into the woods, I scared up two deer. A doe ran about 50 yards, stopped and turned broadside to me and I aimed dead center of her, shot, and hit her right in the spine! It tried to pull itself away with its front legs so I ran up to it and the deer was just screaming. It gave me an eerie feeling so, I unloaded on her while aiming for the head. I got lucky on my first time out but I didn’t see anything else the rest of the season. You should have seen me try to field dress the deer. LOL

I am going on my 5th deer season this year. I have learned a lot since then and I still have a long way to go. I started getting better at finding deer when I realized that I couldn’t just sit anywhere and expect to see something. I bought some books on deer hunting that really helped me out when it came to patterning deer, trail watching, and setting stands. To put it simply, find where the deer bed, what they are eating, and place stands on the downwind side of the trails they use. I bought a Summit Viper climbing tree stand that really opens things up in terms of finding good places to sit. I shot my first buck last season. It was a five pointer and a week later I shot a spike.

These are the four best books I have read and they really helped me out. They are in the order that I think you should read them. You can find all of these books on Amazon.com.

1.   Art of Successful Deer Hunting by Francis E. Sell (This book was copyrighted way back in the 1970’s so some of the guns and    calibers he mentions aren’t around anymore but the tactics of finding deer and trail watching still hold true.)

2.   Hunting Big Whitetails by Bruce L. Nelson

3.   Advanced Hunting on Deer and Elk Trails by Francis E. Sell

4.   Treestand Hunting Strategies by Gary Clancy

Good Luck this Season.
 
 

[GRIMJIM]

I went for 12 years withoput getting a deer. I could only hunt public land that gets more crowded every year. My second bow season I shot a doe in the throat at dusk. Blood everywhere, got lost in the woods, couldn't find the deer, came out on the road 3/4 of a mile from my truck. I went back the next day with four other guys and we followed the blood trail for a long time and never did find that deer. I felt pretty bad about it, I think I pushed it when I was looking the night before. Last year I shot a nice six pointer with my bow, it was worth the wait. A really big nine pointer with my shotgun, and a big doe with a revolver. I have been bow hunting longest so I was glad to get my first with an arrow.

My father was never into hunting when I was a kid. He went when he was young having grown up in upper peninsula michigan, but by the time I came along he had no interest in it. I started going with a friend and his father right after high school. It's funny, now I'm more friends with the father and hardly talk to the son. Anyway I didn't get any deer but I learned a lot about wind direction, natural cover, what terrain to look for to funnel deer, food plots, escape routes and everything else over the years. Had I known then what I know now I would have snuck out of the woods and looked for that doe the next morning and it probably would have been laying thirty yards from where I shot it.

Even though I never got a deer for all those years I enjoyed every moment I spent at camp and in the woods. I think the killing is the smallest part of the trip, sure it's a big part of why we go hunting but there's a lot more to it than just that.

[Land_Owner]

I went 12 years without one on my own 20 acre place but took does there and bucks on other land in those years.

"Dirt time" is something you have to invest in order to get to know your place, fit in, and assimilate yourself into your woods without driving all of the animals and birds into the next county.  If you only go there to hunt and then only hunt a couple of times a year for a few hours, you're not seriously hunting or sufficiently invested in that place, and your "dwell time" there is insufficient to intersect the random wandering of deer. 

Regardless, if you don't sit still while there and really KNOW your place (do deer really use this tract? where are deer likely to come from and go to? in what direction is the wind? where are the squirrels? are the birds singing? have I blundered in here with thoughts of success or failure? etc.) you won't succeed.  A positive mental attitude is one of your best assets.  Use it to its fullest potential.
 
Plant a food plot.  Bring game to you if you can't "take game" to them.  "If you grow it, they will come." 

Killing a buck does not make you a deer hunter.  There is nothing wrong with killing does.
 

[jpsmith1]

Sorry to take so long getting back to this, I just got back from 6 days of Elk hunting in PA.  No elk, but it WASN"T MY FAULT!!!  People drove the elk into a no hunting zone to protect them.  I couldn't help that and neither could my guide.

The biggest thing that the trip taught me is that I'm not a terrible hunter, I'm just an OK hunter working a crappy area.  I 'walked-up' on probably a dozen deer that I could have taken with a handgun and saw a couple of good bucks that I could have killed with a rifle.  I also had a doe basically try to kiss me.  She was within 15 feet and I pushed it too far turning my head to keep her in sight and I got busted.  She wasn't too alert, though because I still could have taken her with my pistol.

I do plan on doing a bit more pre-season work.  Again, never taught.  Like I said, "Go sit under that tree."  that and drive hunting.  I know a little about deer behavior and their life cycle and do plan on learning more, so thanks for the reading material.  I think that "Aggressive whitetail hunting" is a book that was recommended to me.

After the experiences of the past 6 days, I'm pretty much forced to conclude that there aren't too many deer here.  There ARE deer and there ARE good deer.  I just saw an 8pt in a field maybe 1/2 mile from the house today, but the numbers aren't there.  The biggest problem is lack of food source, most of the area is fallow fields, old farmland that hasn't been kept up, my own included.  Never having been taught, I never knew that you needed to mow a field to keep it 'good'.  You can bet that I'll be on that in the spring.  If needed, I'll look into food plots, but just making a green spot in a huge brown filed ought to draw deer.  Combine that with some work on apple trees and I might just have an archery spot.

joshco84, I saved you for last.  That's a very generous offer and I thank you, but one hunting trip was more than enough for my wife, she just about didn't survive 6 days without me around, I don't think that she could handle me making a trip to Kansas

[jdr]

I am new to deer hunting, I just started last year. This year I am a little more organized, I built me a blind where I think the deers are moving, the only problem is they arent moving. I have been in my blind twice since Saturday for an average of 8-9 hours a day. Nothing. My question is, I have baited a little bit, like putting peanut butter jars tied to trees, the next day the peanut butter is gone.  Will the deer make a detour from the original path to lick the peanut butter, or is most likely on there way? Saturday morning I jumped a buck around 6:30am, about 20 yards from my stand. That was the earliest I have been to the blind, today I got out there around 9:00, and stayed till 5pm, but I did manage to call up a bobcat using "The Can" by Primos. I think I might try to get in the woods and setup by 5:30am tomorrow, it will still be dark, this time if I don't see anything by 9am, I am heading to the house, and then try again in the evening. I hunt a little hollow that links two fields together, there are deer tracks up and down the hollow. Thanks for any input.

[Land_Owner]

Sounds like you are "paying dues".  Deer hunting is just that - hunting.  If it became anything else, like easy, or like killing a deer every time, it would soon become known as deer "killing".  This is not the way it should be by any means.  You have to wait it out or find alternative ways to find them if they are not coming to you.  Putting out a little bait just after scenting up the woods making your ground blind is probably not going to get it done.

The deer come and go to their own agenda - randomly foraging to a schedule only they know.  I swear they have a calendar somewhere in that hide of thiers.  They "know" when the season starts, possibly due in part to the increased human activity in their woods. 

On my over-night drive to northwest South Carolina this season I counted 35 plus deer on the roadside and "knew" they were moving.  I saw an 8-pt and 6-pt sparing on the roadside and had to swerve when the 6-pt decided to shy into the road at my approach.  I killed three deer in two weeks of hard hunting.  When they decide NOT to move, you're done if you don't go to them.

Give the blind a chance to "cool off" before hunting it hard.  Your scent is all over the place.  They "know" you are there from dawn to dusk.  They don't "encounter you" after dark, so by deduction, they avoid your place in the daylight.  It more likely they have natural food sources that you have failed to notice and don't need your bait coupled with the threat of your presence.

The moon is just past full.  The weather is still "warm" by their standards.  They are feeding at night - probably and bedding most of the day.  It is safer for them this way. 

Who knows?  I could be all wrong too.  Sorry for that.  It has been a long and trying season so far for me.  Poachers are giving me a fit.  There is one problem that you don't seem to have and you don't want.

[jpsmith1]

Poaching is another problem in my area.  I don't own enough land to say thay they are poaching 'my' deer, but any poaching is not good for the overall deer population.  Also, baiting isn't legal here in PA, bt I've seen apple piles and corn piles on the ground in December.  Guess it was just a fluke of nature, huh?

[jdr]

Land Owner, I took your advice about seeing even if the deer are there. I got to the blind this morning around 3:30-4:30am, about 2 hours before daylight. Once I got settled down, about 15 minutes later I here a deer walk up, sounded like it must have took him 30 minutes to walk maybe 30-40 yards. I picked up the flashlight as soon as I hit the button I knocked my water bottle over, but I did get the tail end of "it"(not knowing if it was a doe or buck). The same thing happened about 40 minutes later. I was hitting my grunt call, and it must have gotten close, I would say around 40-50 yards. So I know the deer are moving through this area, I have to wait till daylight to shoot, but it was still fun getting into the woods that early, and hearing the beauties walk up. Later on, I found a new set of scrapes on a bunch of little cedar trees close to where my blind is.

I am sorry you are having to deal with poachers on your land. My dad owned some land back in the day, and was telling me he had those problems. He had a couple of guys that he let hunt on the land police it. They took turns staying all night, and day, and finally got rid of the problems. My dad wouldn't have had a problem if the guy would have just asked if he could have hunted on the land.

Good luck, and thanks for the advice/comments.
John

[Land_Owner]

John,

IMO, you are blundering your way into the deer's "after dark" behavior patterns and I'll bet you will be seeing fewer and fewer daylight deer if you continue.  It is OK to go into the woods at 3:00 AM, but, just sit there silently and listen.  Listen intently to the silence at 3:00 AM and concentrate on the darkness.  Whatever you hear don't move, breath evenly, don't even think about anything, just listen intently to the silence and don't use the flashlight on them.  In their world, you are equivalent to "Jason" in Friday the 13th.  Would you like to have someone sneak up on you in the darkness and scare the  H  E  L  L  out of you?  I don't think so, but that is, IMO, what you are doing.

Listen to the silence, be silent, stare into the darkness with all of your concentration, listen to 360 degrees around your stand - all at the same time, quiet your thinking mind, you are not a predator at 3:00 AM, just another stump in the forest (so to speak) and when you hear the sounds of deer footsteps, don't be surprised if they come right up to you and look in on your position, and perhap even lick the salt from your face.  That Sir, is an experience and one that you can say "I did everything right!"

On the other hand, if "Jason" shows up...well...run like a deer and clean out your shorts later...

[SDS-GEN]

Poachers are a huge problem.  I've lived on my farm in Illinois for 6 years now and every year some mouth breather was shooting over the fence, trespassing or stealing tree stands.  The guys who were caught trespassing all had the same excuses about not knowing they were on someone elses property or having permission from a landowner when they didn't.  They were told to leave and that was it.  Problem is if all a guy hears is "you can't hunt hear" he will be back, he hasn't faced any consequences for BREAKING THE LAW.  Finally last year I caught someone and threw them off, after getting his name.  Then I called my neighbors.

Here is the plan we came up with.

1. Get as many neighboring farms together as possible and get them on your side.  Chances are they have had problems with poachers too.  Someone will know who the biggest troublemakers are.

2.  Have all landowners give written permission to hunt.  Anyone who is stopped on their land without a permission slip gets a fine.

3.  Call the game warden.  CO's have got a bad reputation in a lot of places, I see them bad mouthed all the time on hunting forums.  I have yet to have a bad experience dealing with a game warden.  Get them on your side. Set a meeting with all the landowners who are in with you and the warden(s) in your area and ask them to help patrol your land, and explain what has happened in the past.

Last year I nailed a guy for shooting over the fence.  He killed a little forkhorn on my place and helped himself to it.  My neighbor heard the shot and, thinking I had killed something, came over to see what I got.  When he arrived here are two knuckle draggers standing over their deer.  He told me about it and I called the warden. 
Turns out this clown wasn't just trespassing, he had no tag, not only did he not have a tag, he had no firearm ID card(required to own a gun in the Peple's Republik of Illinois).  These guys knew what they were doing, in the course of two hours they had the deer butchered and in the freezer and the carcass was buried.  The only thing they didn't do was clean up the blood trail from my land to their garage.  Officer friendly took the meat, the antlers, the guy's gun, and made em dig up the carcass and took that too. 

Later another guy got busted dumping garbage bags with deer carcasses in them on a neighbors place.  Bugger picker actually left a tag on one of the carcasses.

This year I've seen more deer than in the past couple of years, and have found no signs of trespassing, the warden still comes around and I call him a couple of times a year to shoot the breeze.  I wonder how many times I've sat in a tree all day and not seen a single deer because someone shot a deer out of it the day before?  If you are paying a motgage or property taxes on your own place or leasing hunting ground, get rid of these idiots, hunting is hard enoughwithout someone else screwing it up for you.  If you hunt for free your lucky, but you should still see how the landowner feels about trespassers/poachers.

Just has to vent a little. 

[cherokee75]

I am not the most seasoned hunter but I have taken a couple of bucks, nothing to write home about but I don't care.  This year was the first year I really hunted based on the wind and weather.  If the temperature was too hot (early October) or the wind was not right for a particular stand, I did not hunt that day or I used a different stand.  I have noticed a huge difference in the amount of deer I have seen compared to years past.  I have not shot one yet this year, excluding a doe I shot and looked for for three hours, but I have had several encounters but the deer have always just been out of reach in some way (distance, branches, shooting light/hours).  Also, put up several stands if possible, even if it is on a realtively small farm, that way you can always have one to go to no matter what the wind is doing.  Just be ultra mindful of where the wind blows your scent and I bet you will see more deer, the rest is up to you.

Also you mentioned squirrel hunting and seeing the buck.  When is your squirrel season and does it coincide with deer season?  If so, you may want to stay out of the woods then.  If you start to see more deer, sooner or later a buck will present itself.  I did not read anybody elses posts but I am sure others will have the same info.  Good luck.

[jpsmith1]

Squirrel season runs along with archery deer.  I was actually taking my nephew out to bag a couple of greys.  Gun season is after thanksgiving.

SDS, what do you do when the other landowners are the poachers and baiters?  What about when they are family?  I've been close on a couple of occasions, but I just can't bring myself to pull that trigger, yet.

BTW:  In PA, there isn't a 'landowner exemption' to the deer tags.  I guess in some states, if you own enough land, you can write your own tag.  Not here.

[SDS-GEN]

JPSmith,

The guys I busted were land owners and neighbors, one guy owns 15 acres next to me and the other owns 10 acres a quarter mile up the road from me.  They had both been warned about trespassing before.  Everyone knew who the trouble makers were, and the trouble makers were left out of the loop when we formulated are plan to stop the poaching.  I have no use for neighbors who don't respect me or my property.

If your family is breaking the law don't hunt with them.  I couldn't rat my family out to the law but sooner or later they will get caught, don't get caught with them. 

If someone is baiting on their own land I don't care, it's between them and the game warden.

"You have enemies?  Good.  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
Winston Churchill

[jpsmith1]

I have basically disowned my family.  There are reasons besides the poaching, but that's not for here.

The baiting is another issue.  In PA, if bait is found within 250 yards of YOUR stand, YOU are guilty of baiting.  It doesn't matter whether or not you put it there or if you even knew that it was there.  You are responsible for policing the area within 250 yards or your stand for bait.

I unknowingly hunted within 75 yards of the bait piles last year.  I discovered them by walking through them and slipping on the apples just under the snow.  Apples on the ground in December can only be bait.

Most of the landowners around here are pretty small 5-12 acres, but there are larger plots of 75 acres and up.

The poaching and other shenanigans have been a big reason that I haven't tried to start a QDM co-op type deal.  I'd bet that I could get a few hundred acres under QDM within 2 or 3 years, but why do all the work and spend all the money if somebody outside the co-op is going to poach the deer.

The biggest poachers are the ones that I just can't bring myself to turn in. YET!...

[alleyyooper]

I own a nice wood lot of mature trees, I have permisson on the fallow land south of me do do a lot from cutting dead trees to planting food plots. I ASKED FOR PERMISSION. A farm north of me was chopped up into 10 acre plots. the one next to me has a strip of woods about 100 feet long and 20 feet wide.
Here in Michigan you need permission tresspass even to recover game. In the 10 years they have lived next to me they have not asked permission once for so much as to recover game. Two years ago I was running my dogs in the woods and found towlet paper all over the place. Turns out the son was hunting alone (under age for that in Mich) shot a deer with his bow and got his dad and the fellow next door to help track it. They Didn't know peas from pop corn on how to track deer.
Well I am pissed off finding all that trash in my woods and have warned them Not to get caught on my place ever for any reason. I WILL PROSACUTE!!!!!!
Think Your to good to ask a neighbour for permission, think you can do as you please? Not my place, I don't care for your kind, and don't want you in my woods.
Respect me, respect my land and we will get along just fine.
I'd turn in my brother if he was a pocher too!. They even have the gall to call them selves sportsmen.

I have been a self taught deer hunter for 50 years now. I learned by spending all the time in the woods I could. I learned so much when there was snow on the ground, so I could see what the deer did when jumped. Was easy to see where the deer were bedding too. Just keep in mind that after a snow that stays a long time they do change from the late summer fall mode. I have gotten many a buck biggest was a 120 class 8 PT. and one year I shot 7 Six points in different states. Now I won't shoot one unless it is better than an 8 PT. But that is me. I could shoot a doe every day of the season if I wished. I found that honey hole of a funnel deer use daily.

  Al