Author Topic: 22lr 100yd accuracy (Read 3268 times)

handyman06 · « **on:** October 17, 2006, 07:54:01 AM »

A few days ago a friend and myself shot our .22's from the bench at 100yds. He was shooting the absolutely worst condition Ruger 96 leveraction I have ever seen and I was shooting a Marlin 70hc in nearly as poor condition. Both rifles have had a lot of 500rd bricks fired through them, well used to say the least. I had never shot a 22 at that range from the bench and was surprised at the results. We didn't bother measuring the groups, but i would eyball both rifles at an average of around 3-3 1/2 inches for four 5 shot groups. All rounds were the Federal bulk pack 36gr. hp. I thought that was good for a couple of old 22's that wouldn't bring $50 for the pair. My friend was clearly disappointed, he had thought his rifle was capable of much better. My question is, whats is good 100 yd accuracy from a 22?

jack19512 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2006, 09:13:08 AM »

That's kind of a loaded question. Might be a hard one to answer because there are just too many variables involved.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, and I am sure others will disagree with me but a 22 lr is not a 100 yard round as far as energy or accuracy is concerned. Not that some great groups can't be shot with a 22 lr from 100 yards.

Too much depends on the rifle, shooter, weather that particular day, ammo used, etc...etc...Are you talking about the best groups shot or just acceptable 100 yard accuracy? I would think 3 inch groups from 100 yards would be the norm for your average run of the mill 22 lr. Some might be better, some will be worse.

jpsmith1 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2006, 12:23:25 PM »

The .22LR is a finicky cartridge. 3" at 100 yards seems pretty good from the conditions that you are describing.

I've never shot at 100 yards because the .22 LR really loses steam out there. It CAN hit and kill beyond 100 yards, but that's truly stretching it. Mostly keep those shots inside of 50 yards and you'll be happier with your results.

Also, make sure the bore is clean. I've seen a lot of VERY fouled .22 bores that wouldn't shoot for anything. A quick brushing restored very good accuracy. The exterior condition is no real indicator of accuracy porential, but may be an indicator of neglected maintenance. If you haven't cleaned the bore, try that and try again with a variety of .22 ammo, you'll find out what your gun likes.

S.S. · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2006, 05:58:53 AM »

I will have to look up the energy figures on the .22 LR at that range,
but it will easily kill crows at that range. I have a Marlin Glenfield model 20
that is sighted in at 100 yards specifically for Crows in my lower field.
The bullets pass through and normally kick up dust on the far side of the bird.
I use Winchester Dyna-points almost exclusively now and they are quite effective at that range.
The group sizes are about 2 - 1/2 inches. If I use something like Stingers or Yellow jackets
the group doubles that. When hunting for the pot, I shorten the range to about 60 yards
or less though to ensure a head shot.

Tom C. · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2006, 01:33:33 PM »

All guns are selective in the ammo they like, and .22s are even more selective. Testing a .22 off a good bench rest can be illuminating. A good one, with ammo it likes can approach 1". If there is a mismatch between the gun and ammo, the groups will be much larger. 100 yds. is also a bit of a stretch for most .22s. Wear of the barrel can cause slightly marginal stability. They can shoot pretty well at 50 yds, but fall apart at 100. Sounds like your rifle may be worn enough to make good 100 yd. groups very unlikely. Try it at 50. It will probably be much better.

ba_50 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2006, 02:38:28 PM »

My CZ 452 American 22LR shot a 1 1/8" 5 shot group at 100 yards the other day with some variable breezes using Wolf MT. 3 others brands went 1 1/4". Can't wait till its calm to try it again. I've shot crows, prairie dogs, and birds at around 100 yards or more with a .22.

Brithunter · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2006, 11:05:34 PM »

OH well I had better go and tell the Dewar boys that the .22R/F is not a 100 yards cartridge let alone a 200 yard distance that the Dewar is shot at

(Dewar is a competition)

The std acceptance std for the BSA Martini Target rifles was 1 1/2" at 100 yards and that was before WW2 and ammunition has improved since then. Small Bore rifle competition is shot at various distances form 25 yards indoors to 200 yards out doors. I am afraid to say that your so called CCI expensive ammo has a poor reputation for accuracy so your poor condition rifles did well with it. Oh and it's practically impossible to wear out a rimfire barrel

you can wreck one through improper care or neglect. After many thousands ot rounds a small ring or errosion forms at the chamber mouth which will reduce accuracy but this is simple t fix and the barrel can be shortened a little then re-chambered. The NRA of America did this with about 5 target rifles and tested their results before and after.

My BSA Martini Model 12/15 is about 60 years old, Club shooters shoot thousands of rounds every year so God only know how many it has fired over the years but it's still more accurate than I am

. However using poor quality inconsistant ammo never helps here so if you want to test accuracy at 100 yards get some good quality match type ammo which is std velocity and 40 grn bullet, forget the high and hyper velocity stuff as it's no where near as accurate

, and then clean the barrel properly and then shoot about 20 rounds to season the barrel then and only then try for accuracy. The different lubes used on the differing makes can have an effect on accuracy so the bore needs to be seasoned with what your testing to get best results.

handyman06 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2006, 05:40:20 PM »

Brithunter it was Federal not CCI ammo. As far as I know its the cheapest stuff available in the U.S. Here the price for a new rimfire rifle is comparable to shortening/rebarreling as you describe. The Marlin automatics have a barrel that is pressed and pinned into an aluminum reciever, so im not sure how feasable it would be on that particular model. Although if you owned a metal lathe and a milling machine it would be a cinch on the Ruger. I generally have little interest in competitive shooting, but a 200yd. rimfire contest sounds interesting. Did it evolve from some odd practical use of a 22 at that range? I'm guessing the rear sights on those rifles stand pretty tall. Where are you located? I thought private firearms ownership was outlawed in the U.K.

Brithunter · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2006, 10:49:57 PM »

Hi Handyman,

Looks like you have been fooled by the Media, don't worry lots of Americans have been. Firearms ownership is actually growing here in the UK much to certain Media and polititions dusgust. The sport of Stalking (Deer Hunting) is also growing along with our blossoming Deer Population

.

Me I live in Eastern England and have several rifles and shotguns, belong to two clubs and two shooting assocaitaions

Now the Dewar is an NSRA (National Smallbore Rifle Assocoation) competition how it came about sorry to say I am not sure. Personally I don't partake of what they calls erious Small bore shooting I just plink and parctice of hunting

. We have a club fairly local which a friend keeps on about me joining which has a out door 100 yard range but they are purely Target shooters and frown upon scopes and sporting rifles. OK I have a 12/15 Martini but not sure if I want to get involved. But saying that the club is dying so perhaps I should as it may help keep a range open and we need al of those we can have.

Hmm just did a search and it seems that my memory is faulty as the Dewar is a course of fire and used up to 100 yards

I will ahve to do a little more digging and find out which competition it is that they shoot at 200 yards. Sorry about that.

Perhaps now is the time to go and visit that club and find out from their competitors about the Dewar and the 200 yards shoots

. Hmm better get soem match ammo for the Martini then and give it a clean then shoot it in. I can do this at out 75M (84 Yards) range on a Sunday.

jack19512 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2006, 08:21:14 AM »

Quote from: Brithunter on November 01, 2006, 10:49:57 PM

Looks like you have been fooled by the Media, don't worry lots of Americans have been. Firearms ownership is actually growing here in the UK much to certain Media and polititions dusgust. The sport of Stalking (Deer Hunting) is also growing along with our blossoming Deer Population .

That is really good news to hear.

I thought your first post was informative but didn't think it really pertained to the average 22 LR shooter.

I know the original poster asked about accuracy but a lot of people use their 22's for paper punching and hunting so I wanted to add this. The 22 LR has like most ammunition the ability to seriously wound or kill well beyond it's reasonable limits.

As far as hunting goes I would hope no one would get enjoyment from shooting at live game past the cartridges reasonable limits.

As far as shooting at paper, well I would guess the sky would be the limit as there isn't the possibility of a wounded animal suffering a slow and agonizing death.

For the majority of 22 LR shooters they probably aren't into serious competition nor do they have the equipment or skill for such. I just didn't want the average shooter with an average rifle to get the idea that just because a 22 LR can kill a bird at 100 yards that anything goes.

It would be interesting to have some of the forum members post groups shot from their favorite 22 LR and see how they stack up. I don't have anything fancy, my favorite is a CZ 452 Varmiter. I have a shoot planned and I will take it and shoot from 100 yards and post my best group.

Nobade · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2006, 03:06:14 PM »

We shoot a .22LR long range benchrest match here in Albuquerque. It uses the 1/5th scale rimfire silhouettes, at 50,100,150,and 200 meters. Normal winning scores are in the 35-38 range (out of 40). It takes some mighty good wind doping to hit those targets out there at 150 and 200, but the rifles and ammo can do it easily if pointed in the right direction. Figure your rig needs to shoot <2MOA at 200 to hit the rams. The 50 and 100M targets are almost gimmies, if you miss one you aren't going to win. So yes, .22s can be effective at longer range, but reading the wind at 200M is like shooting a .308 at 1000M, and is great practice!

handyman06 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2006, 06:20:16 PM »

Brithunter.....Glad to hear I was mistaken about U.K. gun laws! Maybe you could fill us in on the general gun regulations in your neck of the woods. Is membership in a shooting club required as in Germany. Are handguns still available? I would be interested to know more.

p.s. would'nt 75m equal 82yds. not 84?

jack19512 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2006, 07:54:18 AM »

Here is a pic of the group I shot today with my CZ 452. According to my range finder it was 102 yards. The rifle has a cheap Tasco 3X9 scope mounted on it. The group shot about 1 foot low from the distance I had it sighted in for. The group was 5 shots with the arrow pointing to two holes and measured just under 1 1/2 inches.

If it hadn't been for the one shot it would have been a pretty nice group. Who knows, with a little work and better scope this rifle might shoot OK at 100 yards. Still wouldn't want to hunt game with it at this distance though. That is what my 17 M2 and 17 HMR are for. Lets see some more groups.

Zen900 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2006, 08:54:25 PM »

Quote from: handyman06 on November 02, 2006, 06:20:16 PM

Brithunter.....Glad to hear I was mistaken about U.K. gun laws! Maybe you could fill us in on the general gun regulations in your neck of the woods. Is membership in a shooting club required as in Germany. Are handguns still available? I would be interested to know more.

Yes. Me too. Can handguns be owned by British citizens.

Brithunter · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2006, 01:26:09 AM »

Hi All,

Right rather than go into the whole fully which would take up too much time and space

I will cover the main points.

Handguns were banned after the Dunblane School shootings however there is a class 7:1 or is it 7:3. Not my forte this but it's historical guns. One class can be kept at home for collection only NO AMMO the other may be shot but only at approved places which also store the pistols. Things like the Webly's, Colt 1903 & Lugers are historical. Air pistols are not banned YET!

If you have a rifle for just target shooting then you need to be a member of a Home Office Approved Club. If you have a rifle for hunting then club membership is not required. As I do both I am a member of two clubs and yes it's possible I made a mistake in converting meters into yards.. Yep it's 82.020997 yards and not 84 as I said

Whoops.

Now a kicker which can cause major problems is that the Military are the ones who inspect and pass ranges for safety as it was assumed they new about these things. Perhaps once but now the only things they know about are the ones that they use which means 7.62x51 Nato and 5.56 Nato and the range safety templates are written around this so the regulations only clear ranges approved by the miltitary for velocites up to 3250fps or is it 3275fps

. Nothing with a faster muzzle velocity should be used

also a muzzle energy limit of 5100 ft lbs in written if if I remember correctly. There are one or two ranges which are specially licensed to allow stuff like .338 Lapua and .50 BMG and yes there are a few hardy souls who have and shoot them.

The handgun ban issue is causing the Government some problems as they are supposed to be hosting the 2012 Olympics which includes pistol shooting. At present our National pistol shooters travel to and train in Switzerland

no conducive to new blood in the sport is it? There are those who are trying to scupper the Olympics unless pistol shooting is re-instated into briatain but of course that means losing face and admiting that they were wrong. Oh and they plan to build a new range complex alongside the Thames Esturydespite having the facilitues at Bisley Camp whihc were rebuilt for the Commonwealth games of a few years ago whihc the Government said it would help pay for then refused. After the Olympics the ranges on the Thames will be demolished so we the UK shooters cannot use them

and what a waste of funds!

Armed crime in the UK has sky rocketed since the ban. Which only goes to show that banning it does not work and never did.

Now to other matters

, Now Jack don't be doing your CZ down! I have an older 1964 made Model No2 Brno of which your 452 is a direct descendant

and it's incredably accurate, it also has an almost match trigger on it

I have the std 5 and a spare 10 round mag for it.

I also have 4 BSA .22 Rimfires which are :-

Sportsman Five made in 1955 which has a P-H 16 sporting peep sight on it.
Supersport Five (with rond top reciever) made in 1956
Supersport Five (with later Grooved reciever) made in 1961
BSA Martini Model 12/15 with Bull barrel Hmm just noticed I have not dated this one

The 56 Supersport has had the barrel cut back to 16 1/2" and threaded for a sound Moderator (Silencer) a common mod here for Rabbit shooting and close range Fox control.

handyman06 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2006, 05:02:37 AM »

Brithunter........Was there any attempt by the government to seek out and confiscate pistols after the ban? Or did they rely on people to willingly surrender them for fear of being cought? What is the general concensus concerning these laws? Over here the media portrays the pro-crime folks as numerous, but I don't know a single person that is anti-gun. With the majority feeling very strongly about the subject. By the way thats a nice looking CZ. I used one that looked nearly identical minus the scope while in India. It shot very well even with domestic Indian ammo.

jack19512 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2006, 11:28:29 AM »

Well, my curiosity is getting the best of me so I removed the 3X9 and installed this on my CZ 452. It is a Simmons 6X24X50 with AO.

There probably isn't too much that can be done to this rifle, the barrel is already free floated. Maybe a trigger kit might help some.

Since ba_50 stated his CZ 452 American shot a 1 1/8 inch group I think mine should do better.

But then again, maybe it is just the shooter not doing his part.

I am surprised with so many shooting the 22 LR at 100 yards and past no one wants to post any pics.

Brithunter · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2006, 08:55:49 AM »

Sorry no pictures. Lost the older ones ith a virus worm attack some time ago and now do not have access to a 100 yard range. Our club range is 75 Meters which is 82 yards. My Brno Model No2 has a Leupold M8 4X compact scope on it as it's used for hunting rabbits mainly. In fact of the scoped .22 rimfires they all have 4x scopes on them. And I am not the best operator with aperture sights

need more practice and to get fitter as well.

jack19512 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:00:04 AM »

Quote from: jack19512 on November 04, 2006, 11:28:29 AM

Well, my curiosity is getting the best of me so I removed the 3X9 and installed this on my CZ 452. It is a Simmons 6X24X50 with AO.

Well. that didn't work out at all. Took the CZ out today to try the different scope and the group was horrible. I think I just have a bad scope. I have put this scope on other rifles and didn't have any luck with them either. I will see about having this scope fixed and if I can't will just have to buy another.

Zen900 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:05:41 PM »

Wonder how fast a 22LR is going at 200meters? That's 2 1/2 times what I thought was the outside range of the 22 was. Most all of the energy would be spent at that distance but then I had no idea shooters competed at 200meters so what do I know? Everytime I think I know alot about the 22 rimfire I read something that tells me otherwise.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2006, 05:29:16 AM »

Morn'in,

Well, I have only shot one - 100yd. group with my Clark Custom 77/22, and that a bit over a year ago.

Was out to check the deer/elkl rifle and just decided to shoot a group with the .22 while it was handy.

The group was shot with the out of production Federial, Gold Medal Ultra Match.

The group measures 3/4" for 9 out of 10 shots, while the tenth shot open things up to 1 3/16"

Not really sure just how well this rifle will shoot, as although I have bought a bunch of 22 ammo for testing I just never seem to get the tests done.

My test ammo ranges from the high end Lapua and Eley down to the cheap bulk stuff from Fed. and Rem.

The rifle is an easy sub 1/2" shooter at 50 yds. and I have one - 5 shot group with Lapua, Master w/ the "M" bullet which went 1/4" at 50 yds.

Don't plan to take up target shooting with that pricy ammo, just want to see how well the CRuger will do with the "good stuff."

Keep em coming!

Zen900 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2006, 03:02:44 PM »

Quote from: Darrell Davis on November 08, 2006, 05:29:16 AM

Morn'in,

Well, I have only shot one - 100yd. group with my Clark Custom 77/22, and that a bit over a year ago.

Was out to check the deer/elkl rifle and just decided to shoot a group with the .22 while it was handy.

The group was shot with the out of production Federial, Gold Medal Ultra Match.

The group measures 3/4" for 9 out of 10 shots, while the tenth shot open things up to 1 3/16"

Those are nice tight groups at 100yds you shot but doesn't the bullet actually arc before hitting the target that far away? My Ruger 10/17 Mach2 will shoot flat out to 125 yds but My Ruger 10/22 22LR will only shoot flat out to about 70yds.

Brithunter · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2006, 04:16:10 AM »

May I suggest that you read up a little on Balistics ......................... because the path of a bullet any bullet is a parabolic curve and it crosses the line of sight twice. Once going up and again coming back down again.

Zen900 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2006, 01:13:22 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter on November 09, 2006, 04:16:10 AM

May I suggest that you read up a little on Balistics ......................... because the path of a bullet any bullet is a parabolic curve and it crosses the line of sight twice. Once going up and again coming back down again.

Geometry isnt my thing. Shooting flat is a common colloquial term meaning useful range. Like if I aim at a point at 30yds and at 70 yds with my scoped 10/22 I get pretty close groups at both points without adjusting but beyond that I have to compensate for the arc or parabola as you call it. At that point I never try to shoot any further. I like to think of bullets travelling flat or very near to it. Match shooters dont think that way but then they have a higher skill level than I have.

jack19512 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2006, 08:56:10 AM »

Got me a new scope and sent the other off for repair. The new scope is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6.5X20X50.

I did a little better this time. For a 5 shot group it measured 1.123 in. Better than the 1 1/2 in. before. Good considering there was just a little wind today when there wasn't any the other day. Distance was 103 yards according to my range finder.

I shot a 5 shot group from 50 yards and all went into one ragged hole but one. I think I could do better if I had a better trigger on the CZ 452. Mine is a little heavy for target shooting. But, since I really don't plan on using this rifle for competition I will leave it alone.

All in all not too bad for a rifle that is not by any means considered a high grade target rifle. Especially when considering the cost of this rifle I am very pleased. The holes that are circled are test shots to get me on paper, not shot for accuracy.

jack19512 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2006, 12:26:32 PM »

I can't believe I am the only one that wants to post pics of their groups.

Of all of you guys that talk about shooting your 22 lr at distances of 100 yards or better why is it the only one that posts pics of their groups(me)is the one that doesn't shoot their 22 lr at 100 yards or better.

Something just doesn't seem right about this picture.

ba_50 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 17, 2006, 01:22:28 PM »

My best group with a 452 American with Wolf MT ammo @ 100 yards was 5/16" (5 shot group).

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #27 on:** November 19, 2006, 05:18:50 AM »

Sorry jack19512,

Some of us Ol'coots haven't yet made the transition from film camera to the new hi-tech stuff.

So, as far as I am personaly concern, you will just need to revert back to the Ol'days when if a person said he had a 1/4" (or??) group ya just took him at his word.

Can't speak for others, but in my case at least, you can still safely do that.

It is not that I wouldn't like to have a digital camera, but to buy a Nikon which is compatable with the lenses from my film cameras, costs a bunch!!. So, I haven't taken that 1000 dollar +/- plunge as yet.

However, I do enjoy looking at the photographs even if I can't keep up with the masses.

In fact, I was much impressed when a fellow took a set of my photographs, showing how I made an underbench mounting system for my loading equipment, and put them on a web site along with some hard copy I had sent him.

Anyway, "Keep em coming!"

jack19512 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 19, 2006, 11:32:27 AM »

Quote from: Darrell Davis on November 19, 2006, 05:18:50 AM

So, as far as I am personaly concern, you will just need to revert back to the Ol'days when if a person said he had a 1/4" (or??) group ya just took him at his word.

No problem. I never dispute someones groups posted on the Internet. It isn't my place to be doing that. It isn't something that can probably for the most part be proved one way or another.

Even if someone posts a pic there isn't any guarantee it was shot from the distance claimed. It wouldn't surprise me if some have doubted some(or all)of my groups I have posted. I haven't lost a minutes sleep over it yet.

I am just a picture kind of guy I guess. I enjoy seeing a pic of a 1 inch group much more than reading about a 1 inch group. Since I started reloading I have kept every target of every group I have shot so far. To me it makes it real easy to visualize how my loads do.

I am still waiting for a pic from Tim(quick)of a group shot from his K31.

Zen900 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 21, 2006, 05:40:16 PM »

Quote from: ba_50 on November 17, 2006, 01:22:28 PM

My best group with a 452 American with Wolf MT ammo @ 100 yards was 5/16" (5 shot group).

I'm not sure I could do that at 10ft.