1911A1 Troubles

[Bedell]

I have a GI WWII Colt slide and barrel mounted on an Essex frame.  The guy I got the gun from said he had the hammer replaced by a gunsmith.  When I racked the slide the hammer will fall.  Also when the action is cocked and locked a pull of the trigger drops the hammer.  When you pull the trigger without griping the grip safety the safety will move down and the hammer will fall.  I have replaced the hammer, sear and the sear spring.  I am baffled and fed up with this gun.  Does anyone have any ideas what might be wrong.  I would put this one on the classified board but I am afraid someone would get hurt with this gun.

[Buford]

Take it to a qualified gunsmith.........or get your money back.  It is unsafe..let us know how it turns out.

[kyote]

it is going to take more then just replacing parts.A gunsmith that normally works on the 1911 has to fit the parts.most parts (even though they say drop in) are not, they have to have minor gunsmithing done to them.may be a smith in your area can help.if not send her to brown are clark they are resonable.and will replace any defective part with thier high quailty parts.when they get done I am sure you will be happy with your pistol.they both also do an excellent reliability package..

[Questor]

One simple thing to try before the trip to the gunsmith is to check whether the trigger has an overtravel adjustment screw. If it's there, you'll see it right behind where your finger rests on the trigger. It could be too tight. Get the proper wrench (likely an allen wrench) and loosen it. Individual allen wrenches are available at most hardware stores in the specialty nuts and bolts section.

If that's not it, then it's probably not a simple matter of an incorrectly assembled gun. It could be an improperly installed trigger. Assume that parts have been replaced that were not fitted (new triggers require fitting.) Take it to a gunsmith that knows the 1911 and tell him you suspect this.  Assuming you're new to 1911s, you will likely have trouble diagnosing and repairing it yourself because you don't know what "correct" looks like yet.

A couple more possibilities:
1) a botched trigger job, which will be apparent to a trained eye.
2) racking the slide on an empty chamber repeatedly. This can damage the sear and hammer engagement.

Labor costs shouldn't be high because the 1911 is quick to disassemble and reassemble. But do make the effort to find a pistol smith that knows the 1911.

If you're mechanically inclined, get a Wilson Combat 1911 maintenance video that teaches you how to disassemble and reassemble the gun. It's not difficult to do and doesn't take much in the way of tools. Wilson sells good replacement parts. I recommend Wilson instead of, say, Brownells, because Wilson's part selection is simple and the quality of the parts is very good. With Brownells there are too many options and it will dazzle you. If you do order your own parts, make sure you understand that there are two major variations on the 1911: If yours is the "regular" 1911 with the 5" barrel, then it may be referred to as a GM or Government Model. The other variation is a Commander.

[Mikey]

Bedell:  Take it to a qualified 1911 gunsmith for repair.  Those combinations can be a pita to get right.  If you are mechanically inclined and can gunsmith the firearm yourself then my suggestion would be to get a Chip McCormick hammer and trigger group.  That will also necessitate a beavertail grip safety and Kings sells those that drop in without having to do anything to the frame to get it to fit.

The hammer and trigger group includes a new hammer, sear, disconnector and trigger.  You will probably also need a new slide safety and I believe McCormick or Kings sells them, too.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Questor]

Mikey:

Does Kings have a web site?

[Bedell]

Thanks for the advice.  I have been aggrevated with this pistol for awhile.  I should have sent it back right after I got it.  If I am going to have to spend alot on this I might just sell the parts off.  After messing with this one I don't ever want another 1911.  There isn't a 1911 gunsmith in my area.

[Questor]

Here are the options as I see them:
1) I don't know how much that gun is worth if it were in good shape, but if it's under $400, I'd either junk it or use it as a project gun to learn to work on 1911s.  In this scenario you cut your losses and move on to future projects.

2) If it's worth more than that, you'll need to decide whether it's worth the potential $300 bill to fix it and use that as an opportunity to spend a total of $500 for repairs plus custom touches. If it's worth the fix, send it away for repairs. In this case you end up with a lightly customized 1911. That better be a nice basic gun for this to be worthwhile.

3) Can it be sold as-is to a 1911-fancier (with full-disclosure of the problem) for a very deep discount? In this case you get some of your money back and move ahead to future projects. The problem is finding a buyer.

[Mikey]

Questor - Kings should have their own website.  Mikey. 

[dbuck]

What it sounds like is the the seal spring is set up wrong, what you are saying will happen when the forks (their are three) are set wrong or bent wrong, I would start back with the basics.

1.  Do you have a good book that shows you how to disassemble and assemble a 1911.
2.  Purchase a OEM seal spring from Brownells, install everything back togeather and see if the problem goes away.  If you start with replacing everything at once you don't know what caused the problem, then replace the seal and the hammer.  The problem has to be one of these areas in a 1911, I'm still betting on the seal spring.

If you don't know what you are doing, please take it to a gunsmith and let him work on it, you will be happy when you get it back.

Good Luck

[IntrepidWizard]

It is the spring or the hammer notch or the sear,easy to see when taken down and reassembled CORRECTLY.

[Questor]

Intreidwizard:

Those are invisible until the gun is partially disassembled. It is easy to tell whether they are installed correctly if you know how they should be installed.

[44 Man]

Well, two things are happening.  Your hammer and sear engagement may be fine, but your grip safety is not blocking the trigger when you pull it back.  There is a 'nose' that projects forward and is supposed to block the trigger from moving far enough to trip the sear until you depress the grip safety, then that part swings up out of the way of the trigger.  If the nose is too short, it does not block the trigger and the hammer falls.  Also the nose part may have been 'thinned' top to bottom.  (I have done this before so the grip safety would disengage sooner)  If that is done to much then the trigger can nudge past it and depress it as you pull the trigger and the hammer falls.  You need to start with a new grip safety and properly fit it.  If your hammer will fall when the trigger is pulled with the gun 'cocked and locked' then the thumb safety is defective also.  When properly fitted, the thumb safety does not allow the sear to move so the hammer cannot drop.  Again, a new one will have to be fitted as you need more material on the bottom 'V' inside the gun.  This is not a big deal if you have a little experience, but if you question it at all, take it to a gunsmith.  You do have an unsafe gun. 
Sometimes you can drop parts in and they will work fine, but sometimes not.  Since essex sell frames, this is probably a 'parts' gun.  Obviously the parts you have are not working together properly.  Sometimes the frame itself may be out of spec, and the holes for the pins misplaced slightly.  This is usually correctable with the right combination of parts, but 'drop in's probably won't do it.  I once built a gun up with an older Colt slide like you have and an AMT stainless frame.  The magazine release hole was too low for that combination and I had to have a welder add a little material to the 'shelf' on the magazine release to raise the magazine slightly in the frame.  Sometimes you get lucky and I do think that frames now are much more precision that they have ever been, but usually a 'parts gun' is a lot of work and fitting to get everything to work as it should.  44 Man

[Lloyd Smale]

IVe got a detonics combat master i bought used that does the same thing. My buddy has tried his best to correct it and had to give up. He said i need a new hammer sear and disconector as what happened is a hack smith tried to do the trigger and did it incorrectly and took metal off where he shouldnt have.