Author Topic: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through  (Read 1196 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline jasonprox700

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
  • Gender: Male
Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« on: November 21, 2006, 05:07:06 AM »
I have been loading my Ruger .280 with 140 grain Sierra Gamekings atop 57 grains of RL19.  I get terrific accuracy out of them.  The only problem I have with them is they don't get enough penetration.  I have shot about 20 deer with these.  Only one passed through, which was on a broadside muley that was 175 away.  I shot a 2 1/2 year old doe on Saturday morning (Opener of Wisconsin Rifle Season) at 40 yards.  The bullet left a two inch hole in the hide (Entry) and when we skinned her, I could stick my fist through her ribs.  Later that night I shot a dandy 4 1/2 year old 9 pointer at 150 yards.  It was facing me.  After the shot he ran to my right where I shot him through the center of the chest (completely broadside at 175).  He then ran away and I caught him just behind the ribs as he was quartering away at 200.  The buck dropped at the last shot, but the broadside shot had not passed through.  What's the deal?  I have never lost a deer with these bullets, but I don't like the destruction and would like something that passes through or gets better penetration.  I kind of like the boattail design, and they seem to have turned out better accuracy for me with my gun.  What other brands would fit into my category?  When does Winchester plan on releasing their XP3 bullets as a component?  That looks like a promising bullet.

Offline flintlock

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2006, 05:57:36 AM »
I think thats pretty typical of the Sierra GameKings...I get similiar preformance with my .243 and 100gr Sierra GameKings, my brother (who has two .270s) does about the same with his .270s and 130 gr Sierra GameKings...My other brother uses plain old Remington CoreLokts in his .280 and has killed a ton of deer with it over 20 years...This bullet almost always passes through....I actually get more pass throughs with the Federal Premium 85gr HPBT than the 100gr Federa Premium loaded with 100gr Sierra GameKings...If you want 100% pass throughs on deer, might try the Nosler Partition or the CoreLokt...Good Luck...

Offline Selmer

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 684
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2006, 06:52:43 AM »
I'll second the recommendation for Nosler Partitions if you want complete pass throughs every time. We use them exclusively in our .243's for hunting deer.  If you like the boattail design and want to stick with it, try the Nosler Ballistic Tips in 140.  I know there is a love/hate relationship out there depending on your experiences, but I use them in my .30-06 in the 165 gr. bullet and have great results, most bullets pass through.  Again, if you want guaranteed pass throughs, pony up and load the Partitions.  The Partitions also shoot very accurately out of our rifles, .30-06 included.  They shoot to the same POA as the BT's and I can hold a 6 shot group, 3 of each, under an inch at 100 yds. out of three of our rifles.
Selmer
"Next to the glory of God, music deserves the highest praise"-Martin Luther
Any homo sapien with the proper chromosomes can be labeled a father, but it takes a man to be called "Daddy"-unknown

Offline beemanbeme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2006, 07:39:36 AM »
Another vote for the core lokt.  If they won't shoot well (you don't have to shoot clover leaves to kill a deer  ;D ) Then I'd try the NP's.  Moving up to a 150 might get it done. 

Offline Duckbill

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 101
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2006, 09:18:06 AM »
What kind of velocity are you getting with the 140 GK's?  My experience has been that a GK launched at more than 2900fps will be too franglible.  I load the 160's in my 7MAG but keep the velocity around 2850.  I also never shoot for the shoulder with them.
As mentioned the Nosler Partition is an awesome bullet.  I shoot the 140 Partitions in the same 7MAG at around 3150fps and it will bust thru both shoulders of a whitetail.  I ran out before the season started or I wouldn't be shooting the GK's.  It's what I had loaded ::) .
Every deer I've shot with GK's died quickly, but they were all double lung shots. 
Isaiah 41:10

Offline upnorth

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2006, 03:46:15 PM »
try the nosler accubonds. pricey, but you get the entry and exit with minimal meat damage. I broke the spine of one buck, took a doe through the ribs, she went 5 ft before dropping. almost no meat damage at all. distance 247 yards with a 7-08.
you wanna take my guns? go ahead, it's your arm!

Offline MnMike

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 493
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2006, 05:54:11 PM »
I am not sure about pass through. I shoot 30-06 165 GameKings and have had only one deer go over 100 yds. That was a pass through (and it took out heart and both lungs). All others have dropped within 25 yds. A friend has a theory that the 30-30 is the ideal whitetail gun because the bullet delivers all it's energy to the deer (no pass through). I am also not sure about that. I use the GameKing because I have found that it expands nicely at almost any range. I would rather waste a bit of meat than lose a deer.

JMHO

mike
Mike Ellestad

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18266
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2006, 11:21:15 PM »
Ill lump sieras and nosler bt in the same answer and say while there about the most accurate hunting bullets made they are a little explosive under 150 yards.
blue lives matter

Offline Tom W.

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
  • Gender: Male
  • Warning... Does not play well with others!
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2006, 11:37:29 AM »
I use the 180 gr GameKings in my 30-06 and the 140's in my 7mm Rem mag. So far I haven't had one that I hit take a step.
This year I loaded up a bunch of the 150 gr. C/T ballistic silvertips for my 7mm. They did good on the range, but I have yet to see a deer this season.
One of the shots with the 7mm was a frontal chest shot at 150  yards. The deer never moved from it's tracks, and the bullet never exited.
Tom
Alabama Hunter and firearms safety instructor

I really like my handguns!

Offline RaySendero

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Gender: Male
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2006, 12:41:40 PM »
I load the 150 SGKs in my 270 - Have had some great "Bang-Flops" and only had one to trail (went 20 yds).   All shots were one-shot-kills.  Everyone had two holes - Have never found a 150 in a deer.  I changed from the 130s to the 150s about 5 years ago to get better penetration and so far its been great.  I think the long for caliber SGKs are the way to go on light-skinned game!
    Ray

Offline jvs

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1539
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2006, 12:09:45 PM »
Give up on the boattails.  I always thought that boattails were for extra long distance shots on targets where fatal wounds didn't matter.  Boattails dont have much of a record of dropping larger animals in their tracks.

I would go with Factory CoreLokts, or if you want to reload your own, try Hornady's Interlock or Interbond Bullets.

You will give up a certain amount of accuracy with factory CoreLokts but the performance is worth while. IMO.
 If you want to run with the Wolves, you can't Pee with the Puppies.

Offline Don Fischer

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1526
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2006, 01:08:33 PM »
I quit useing Sierra bullet's years ago for hunting, just to distructive. Ya might give the 139gr Hornady a try or the 145gr Speer if they still make it.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline Jaydub in Wi

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2006, 03:53:03 PM »
I would try one of 3 things. Load a 150 or 160 gr if you want to stay with a gk.try a partition or maybe even a tsx if you want to stay with 140s. I used 120 gr Xs on whitetails and only had one that didn't exit.(facing shot) all of the others exited regardless of angle or if shoulder bones were hit.this was with a 264 loaded to higher velocity than a 280 with 140s. My dad uses a 270 with 150 gr partitions and had exits on both deer He's taken with them. good luck

Offline jvs

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1539
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2006, 09:51:28 PM »
Jasonprox,

Can you tell me why youy think your bullets need to pass completely through to get the best performance ?

The maximum transfer of energy while inside the body of an animal is what you should be looking to achieve.  The dynamics of Hydro-Shock is usually what kills, along with Hemorrage.

It is possible for a bullet to pass through too quickly, without transfering enough energy to be effective quickly.  Some hunters have bullet performance down to a science, where they can knock a deer completely off its feet and throw it back 5 feet with the right bullet/distance/shock combination, and never find much more than little slivers of lead inside the animals body.  To me, this is optimum bullet performance.   Ask around, and you can hear the stories about bullet performance from 'shock' that doesn't pass through all of the time.

While having bullets pass through is likely to happen in most cases, having them pass through is far from a requirement to grade a bullets' or a loads'  performance.   
 If you want to run with the Wolves, you can't Pee with the Puppies.

Offline SuperstitionCoues

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 366
  • Gender: Male
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2006, 08:16:51 AM »
I don't quite understand your problem.

100% of the energy of the projectile was transferred to the animal.  None was wasted with an exit wound.  The animal expired in a quick fashion from a sudden intake and overdose of heavy metals - copper and lead.

In fact, your statement about the broadside on a deer at 150 yards that left an exit wound, but was still running, later to be finished off at a further distance with a shot that didn't leave an exit wound, lends support to the bullets performance.  If the bullet stays inside the animal and deposits 100% of it's remaining energy, it will do a better job of killing than a bullet (any bullet, no matter what the brand) that exits the animal and buries itself into a tree a few yards off.

So, why the concern about the lack of an exit wound?  The bullet did it's job, and your freezer is full.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Offline jasonprox700

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
  • Gender: Male
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2006, 07:40:56 AM »
My main concern was a shot that wasn't broadside.  I don't want to have a bullet glancing off or exploding off the brisket.  I agree about using 100% of the energy in the deer, but penetration is just a concern.  I should have clarified that the bullet did not pass through on the nine pointer I shot.  There wasn't even shrapnel on the opposite side.

Offline Drilling Man

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2006, 01:17:13 PM »
  I MUCH prefer my bullets to go on through...  These days most folks are useing a lot more gun that they really need (myself included) so what's the big deal if a bit of energy ends up in the dirt beyond the animial???

  In my big game hunting career i've noticed faster kills with bullets that expand well and still go on through too...

  I never had much luck with gamekings holding together and these days i use NP's almost 100% when hunting big game...

  DM

Offline jvs

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1539
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2006, 09:33:16 PM »
I never meant to insist that bullets don't pass through.  I've had shots that left softball sized exit wounds, which means the bullet transered most of its energy inside the animal.

I think we all agree that if a bullet passes through too quickly and loses almost no energy inside, the animal was either too close and the bullet was too fast, it was too much gun, the wrong bullet composition, or it was poor target selection.   I think we can also agree that when a bullet transfers most of its energy inside the animal, that it is what optimim bullet performance is all about.  It's not War, it's Hunting.

Exit wounds aren't really necessary, but when they get huge and ugly, that is when your bullet did its job.  Hit a rib or other light bone on the way in and you just might not get an exit wound.  But the energy transfer (shock) will have done its job.  Like I said before, a deer can be knocked completely off its feet with the proper distance, the proper weight bullet and the proper shot placement.  An experienced hunter can find a rib to hit when looking through the scope, ribs aren't that hard to find.  The closer the animal is, the bigger the bone has to be upon entrance.

The original question was asked about bullets passing through, let's say, the boiler room, as if it is a requirement for dropping and animal in its tracks.  It is not.  I prefer that bullets to either drastically slow down or come to a stop. 

Face it, if the whole idea was passing through, then we don't need SP's, PSP's, RN's or FN's.  We could all use FMJ's. 

Hunting bullets are designed to slow down and begin to deform upon impact with tissue and transfer the energy.  More hunters should adapt to this fact.

If I am wrong, I am more than willing to see the evil of my ways if somebody can explain it to me and have it make sense.

 
 If you want to run with the Wolves, you can't Pee with the Puppies.

Offline EsoxLucius

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 601
  • Gender: Male
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2006, 04:24:58 AM »
Consider 139 grain or 154 grain Hornady Interbonds.

We learn something new everyday whether we want to or not.

Offline Drilling Man

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2006, 04:26:16 AM »
  Over the years of my hunting career i've noticed that a bullet that expands well but exits kills the animial fastest..  I'm not just talking whitetails here, i'm talking about moose, bear and the other big game animials too..

  Most of us are useing rifles that are over powered for the animials we hunt, (myself included)  so what does it hurt if a bit of energy goes into the ground on the other side of the animial?

  DM

Offline mbp708

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2006, 03:50:51 PM »
Used to believe in the pass thru but I have shot several deer with the Sierra 140 Gamekings and the Pro hunters. No pass thru but haven't had one go over 40 yds either. Have used them in 284 win.,280 AI, 7X30 Waters, and now in a 7mm BR. Only exception was with the 7 BR at 200 yds, complete pass thru and only went 10 yds. after the shot. Still have concerns about one traveling too far with no blood trail but hasn't happened yet.

Offline The Sodbuster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2006, 03:10:29 PM »
In the last 2 years I've dropped 3 deer with .25 caliber sierra gamekings.  2 100 grainers from a .25-06 and one 117 grain bullet from a .257 Weatherby.  All were shot between 40 and 170 yards.  Each bullet went through; exit wound was about the same size as the entrance wound.  2 dropped in their tracks, one went about 40 yards.  I got no complaints.  I'm sure other bullets perform as well or better, but gamekings shoot very well in those two riflles, work fine for deer, and the price is right.

Offline Buckfever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 665
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2006, 04:13:07 AM »
I thought I would add the Speer Hot Cores to the mix for loads 3000 fps and less, standard load in Speer reloading manual.   They are accurate and they put them down for a very resonable amount of money.  Don't use these bullets in magnum loads.  My 6.5x55 loves them.  In fact  3000fps in my reloads functions alot like a 25-06.   Buckfever

Offline captdp

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2006, 10:51:37 AM »
 :)I use a 150gr just for that reason in my 280. It's a little heavier and a little slower. Therefore, I believe that it opens a little slower and that with the extra weight allowd deeper penetration. I also believe that you get the best of both worlds if you use a Partition, although it's not quite as dramatic. It's designed for only the front partition to open quickly and come apart. capt david

Offline Drilling Man

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
Re: Problems w/Sierra Gamekings Not Passing Through
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2006, 11:26:13 AM »
  I think these picts. of a nice buck i harvested tell the story of wether to have an exit wound (pass through) or not...

  DM

  Entrance,



  Exit,