Author Topic: renegade load for deer (Read 1814 times)

mspaci · « **on:** November 13, 2006, 08:20:57 AM »

I have not been able to get acceptable accuracy in my renegade using conicals or PRB. Have 1:48 twist cap lock. Tried Ball-et, maxi & maxi hunter loads. Prb & a buffalo Bullet. Only sabots seem to work. Anyone have any suggestions. Mike

slayer · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2006, 10:33:39 AM »

That is interesting considering the 1:48 isn`t a sabot rifling, although there are always differences in gun to gun. I find the Renegades like the heavier conicals like 400+ grains. Which ones are you using and how heavy? Jack.

tallpaul · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2006, 12:14:47 PM »

Mine has ALWAYS done well with 80 grain BP/pyrodex equivelent and either RB or maxiball... I never felt the need for ubermagnum loads though... that load punches through deer as far as I have ever shot em....

mspaci · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2006, 01:04:45 PM »

The largest conical was 350gr. w/ 90 gr BPowder. 3-4 inches at 50 yards. I`m not sure what is going wrong? 300 grain sabot shoots 3 inches at 100 yards. Still not great but acceptable. Maybe I need to go heavier on the conical? Mike

Snowshoe · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2006, 05:27:46 PM »

I would go back to the round ball, and work with as heavy a patch as I could, and try a bore button under it. Try 2f black powder or Pyrodex, and vary the load from 70-90g. I would also vary the lube you use, amount, and type. If you want to shoot a conical, you could also try a paper patched Lee Mini. If you are interested in trying that, there is a web sight on it. I tried the paper patch thing and got a super accurate bullet, but it kicked the crap out of me.

lonewolf5348 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2006, 11:33:57 PM »

I would give the barrel a good cleaning first make sure there no plastic left in th barrel from the S---t bullets(remember this is a traditional board so did not want to mention them s----t bullets).
Now I have a renegade in 54 without the QLA shooots RB'S that drives tacks,my 54 cal. flinter load is 95 grains of goex3F a wad under the pillowpatch.018 and a hornday RB.
I have shot 2F in the barrel but seem to favor 3F powder.

mspaci · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2006, 01:22:10 PM »

I tried the Buffalo Bullet 410gr today & they key hole in the targets & about a 15 inch group at 50 yards. The barrel was super clean when I started. Snoeshoe whats the web site on the paper patch mini? I may just have to try RB again, would someone explain what they load these with a wad under, what to buy I mean. Mike

simonkenton · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2006, 02:49:20 PM »

I can't understand your problem with round balls. I got good accuracy with my TC Hawken with the round balls, and killed the deer and hogs with them. Same twist as yours.
Good luck.

fffffg · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2006, 04:36:57 PM »

mike is doing what your all doing, except, the milllion other things we take for granted.. well need to start with powder amount, under ball wad if any, patch or paper or whatever , lube type and amount, ramming PRESSURE, and then your wipping tecknique (wipe liquid type, amount, wiping patch type, fit, size of jag etc etc.. .. comeon guys, you didnt just slide powder and a mini down and shoot 1/2 inch groups.. remember the problems with your first black powder gun?? also mike you need to look for loose sights, bad caps, try some different powder?.. id try 2fg as snowshoe did and if hes having good luck with that gun contact him oflist to get you going with round ball, if that is what you want to use.., for that type of thin rifling a tight ball and patch with some kind of lube, doesnt matter a whole lot try severa lubes withl 3-5 shot groups each.. do not deformr the ball, try to get it down very firm without deformiing it.. in cold or dry weather i use lots of lube.. in cold weather after your first shot take 1/2 murphy soap oil and 1/2 denatured alcohol and put it on a medium tight patch doesnt have to be real tight and run it down the bore with enough liquid to get it soft all the way down.. this takes a little liquid that is just right, too much and youl start messng with your ignition, too little and you wont soften the powder..work the breach area well so you soften the crud ring that crushes the ball undersize and ruins accuracy.. then one dry patch up and down then reload the way you did the first one.. make sure you get the muzzel well with each.. what is most likely happening is yur either stripping the ball and patch,,, or blowing holes in the patch, cuting the patch with sharp rifling,, or the breach crud ring is crushing ball down to under size, once the ball is loaded down by the crud riing and moves forward past it, it starts blow by around the ball and ruins accuracy.. dave , helena monana....

mspaci · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2006, 04:05:57 AM »

ffffg, thanks a bunch, I was concentrating on a conical bullet but your remarks make me want to try a round ball again. This is the kind of info I was looking for. I have been using ffg so far, but just using a spit patch every other shot. I will have to rethink my wiping techinque & have never heard of the crud ring ruinig accuracy before. Every one here shoots inlines & sabots so its hard to get this kind of info. I just like the older style of gun, its fun to cary & much easier to clean. Thanks very much & if anyone has anyhing else that would be great. Mike

fffffg · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2006, 04:38:18 AM »

if i wiped every other shot on a warm dry day my gun wouldnt hit the barn from the inside.. but on the other hand in very cold weather i can shoot with tc lubed patches and no wipe and .600 round ball . and get acceptable accuracy for some darn reason.. .. but i have .016 deep rifling.. yours is shallow rifleing and to grab the round ball and patch it has to be tight and relatively clean.. dave

Plink · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2006, 04:53:46 PM »

I'd try 0.15 and 0.18 patches with the ball. You might try a felt wad under it also. Those always seem to tighten the groups. Sometimes just changing patch lube makes a difference also. For ball and conicals both, I'd suggest you back off your powder load a bit, to maybe 60-70 grains or so, then work up 5 grains at a time and see if you find a sweet spot for accuracy. T/C's 1:48 twist is known to shoot a PRB very well, and shorter conicals quite well, but it takes some time to find out what powder charge works best.

If you can't find a highly accurate load combination, it might be a problem with the fit of the barrel to the gun. That's usually not hard to fix, just a little harder to diagnose. Let us know what you find.

mspaci · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2006, 06:17:36 AM »

I can get sabots to pattern nicely, but am trying to get a more traditional load to work, & less expensive. I have buffalo ballets that wouldnt fly out of my white mt carbine, but maybe in the slower twist? Or w/ a wad or paper patch? Mike

slayer · « **Reply #13 on:** November 16, 2006, 06:26:49 AM »

Yes, Ball Ets are made for the slower twist. I love them and priced right!! Jack.

flintlock · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2006, 06:55:40 AM »

What caliber is it?? What diameter balls are you shooting?? Are they swaged or cast?? What patches?? Brand and thickness and what type lube are you using on the patches???

mspaci · « **Reply #15 on:** November 16, 2006, 07:28:20 AM »

.50 cal renegade, 1-48 twist 240 gr. ball-et(buffalo)(cast), what ever lube is on them(prelubed) & for now no patch. Maybe I could paper patch them or regular patch them if they dont fly well? Just looking for suggestions to try at the range. Thought of these as I remembered I had them. Deer season will start here Sat. so I will probably not get to the range for a while. Mike

flintlock · « **Reply #16 on:** November 16, 2006, 10:21:49 AM »

I was thinking about round balls...I have know some guys try to use a t-shirt for patching rb..Doesn't work as it has poly in it and it burns easily, so the ball doesn't spin...When you go back and try round balls go with .490 in Hornady or Speer, they are swaged...and buy .018 patching (Ox-Yoke ot T/C still make them)...Lube one side with SnoSeal and put the lubed side down...center the ball over the patch and ram down...Oh yea...the T/Cs that I have shot have grouped will with 80grs FF...Then as stated, dampen 2 patches with rubbing alcohol and run down the barrel, both sides, dry with a patch and load again...

In concals, my younger brother used a T/C Hawken for years, loaded 90 grains FF and a Hollow based Buffalo Bullet, don't even know if they are still around...But that loading gave good accuracy...Myself, I have always used round balls and roll my own...

Landngroove · « **Reply #17 on:** November 16, 2006, 11:06:01 AM »

The first thing I would do is give the barrel a good cleaning. Bring it back to raw steel. remove any lead, or plastic residue. Shooters Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel works well, or use another commercial solvent. Use a bronze bore brush, and plenty of patches. After you are sure the barrel is clean, Try a .490" round ball, if a .50 caliber, or a .530" if a .54 caliber, .015" pillow ticking patch, lubed with Hoppes #9 Plus Black Powder Solvent And Patch Lube, or T/C Bore Butter, and start with 70 grains of Goex FFG Black Powder. Work up your load in 5 grain increments. My Renegades shoot very well with these components.

Slamfire · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2006, 05:24:27 PM »

I've a Bobcat with 1 in 48 twist, and it just ain't fussy. Shoots .490 prbs, with 0.015 and 0.018 pillow tickin' lubed with Bore Butter, really well with any charge between 50 and 80 grains of FFg or FFFg Wano with or without wads. The Buffalo 245 grain, Ballets, nearly as well as the prbs.
Now my White Mountain Carbine throws the Ballets 2 1/2" to the right when used with the same load as the prbs. It has a 38" twist so you'd think it'd like the Ballets better.

mspaci · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2006, 01:22:51 PM »

I couldnt get the carbine to pattern ball-ets either.

slayer · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2006, 01:27:57 PM »

The Ball-Ets prefer the slower twists just as the Roundballs. They were made that way as a convenience to use over the rounbball without a patch and they weigh more, but still preffering the slower twist barrels. 1:28 and 1:38 prfer Heavy Conicals and Sabots. Jack.

Mack in N.C. · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2006, 05:42:07 PM »

i dont have as much experiance on traditionals as most here do but heres my story.......i have ahd a renegade since about 1988? ......used to know a really helpful man at tc named don who is now retired....mainly spoke with him about contenders but he told me that his favorite (if using the 370 gr maxi ball)and best load for deer was 80 grains behind the 370 gr maxi ball.......i used this until last year...only ever miised 1 deer but my fault not the guns ,anyway iwas never pleased with the accuracy.......good enough for deer but not accurate...called tc and spkoe to another man...he suggested uping the grains to 90 and taking the bottom layer on lube out of the maxi ball.............i did this and it was like night and day........accurate......wish i had done this years ago......it just show like some otheres have said that you need to experiment with loads and bullets.......what works well in some renegades may not wk well in others.........mack

oldsmokeyjeff · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2006, 12:22:20 PM »

Let me throw this in for consideration. Several years ago I had a White Mountain Carbine in .54 cal. (wish I still had it so if you ever want to sell...!) I ended up getting VERY good groups with, if I recall, 100 grains by volume Pyrodex RS and a Hornady 425 grain hollowpoint maxi. I lubed and cleaned with Bore Butter after every use and also seasoned the bore with bore butter when I bought the gun. Never had a problem with fouling by the way. I was able to get 1 to 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards. This was offhand at a match and was good for 2nd place. Not too bad for a carbine. I found that lighter maxi's did not group as well. I don't know if Hornady still makes this maxi but it worked great for me.
PS Just found an old load for that gun in one of those brown plastic quick loaders I still have and that is indeed the load.
Don't give up...experimenting is half the fun!!! Good Luck!

MSP Ret · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2006, 01:43:49 PM »

Which Renegade are you speaking of, the .50 or the .54? If it's the 50 I suggest between 80 and 85 grains of Pyrodex and a patched round ball. There is no deer that can live after a well placed shot from that combination. The 80 grain load behind a round ball is the combo that shoots best in my .50 Renegade....<><....

Swany · « **Reply #24 on:** December 14, 2006, 09:16:10 AM »

For my .50 cal renegade I used the following, .495 round ball, .018 patching. 100gns of P pyrodex, it will shoot a minute of oilcan at 100yds. I know everyone says you shouldnt use P and more than 80gns, I did because it worked. First things first, I did clean thoroughly my bore, then polished with a .30cal bore brush with a .500 strip of scotch brite pad spiral wrapped around it this was done while watching the tube at night. That nice shiny smoothed out bore with no sharp edges on the rifling lands seemed to do the trick with .495 and .018 ticking and a large dose of the P for hunting. 2f with 50gns would make one hole clusters at 50 all day long. I mold all my round ball, and as such use a small piece of nylon with a cup rounded (in place of a patch starter) with a .500 round mill for starting the tight patched ball, the sprue is nice and round and flush when I insert my short starter as I have to swat the patch starter with my short starter made with a nylon hammer for a tee handle. Some things do work better when you have the tools and the knowledge to make right stuff for your sport.