Electric generation in Interior Alaska

[coyote trapper1928]

Would it be cheaper in the long run for communities in Interior Alaska  that make their electricity from Diesel fuel or other forms of expensive energy, to instead drill a Natural Gas well, and power the electric generators that way?   This is assuming that they own the land on which they drill the well and that the well would provide a sufficient amount of gas to meet the energy requirements for the long term.

[Dand]

Natural gas isn't below every piece of land in AK first off and second, the community would have to be big enough and the gas supply big enough before they could break even.  It is HUGELY expensive to drill and develop gas too.  But communities are looking at every option.  Naknek was looking into gas and is now looking into geothermal. They may drill a test well this coming summer. Dillingham and Unalaska gave up on wind power I think (too much hard wind or too erratic).  Unalaska has played with geothermal ideas for years. One fish plant in Unalaska uses some fish based biodiesel.  Wind is being investigated in much of western Alaska and I think some northern communities are using some.  Homer area and Palmer areas were exploring for coal bed methane until the really bad features of that energy became known. Coal is an option and there are places exploring for it but its controversial too.  King Cove uses tide to generate hydro electricity and the idea of damming the Yukon resurfaced recently too. At over $4.00 to over $5.00 /gallon for fuel oil rest assured we spend a lot of time thinking about better energy sources while splitting wood and tuning down thermostats.

[Dusty Miller]

Hey, whattsamatta you guys?  Don'tcha know that -30 deg. F is good for an early morn'n walk, it'll really perk a guy right up!!

[379 Peterbilt]

Two years ago while visiting the village of Galena, I heard they were exporing the idea of putting in a small nuclear generator. I wonder how that ever turned out.

[corbanzo]

A lot of people around the trapper creek area used to use desiel generators, even personal ones, but with the price of fuels going up like it has, many of these personal users have had to make a different choice. 

Because of the fuel costs I havent even though about putting a fuel burning stove in at my cabin.  Its all wood and canned foods for me.  (though I dont live there, so there is nothing wrong with roughing it)

Alternatives are a great idea.  Down here in Seward they are trying put in and test a tide powered gnerator, which is a very interesting idea.  I actually havent been keeping up on it, and dont remember if it got the final approval.  The thing is this isnt an idea that can be used in just any area, as we have a tidal difference at times of about 16 feet, plus we are on the coast. 

the weather and terrain just doesnt seem to work all too well with other forms of renewable energy.  There is a water genterator up at cooper lake at coopers landing on the kenai peninsula, which is good to see.

Working at the sealife center, i get a lot of questions concerning oil, consumption, effects, and all of that.  sustainability is big concern, because the real answer is, it isnt if we run out of fossil fuels, its when.  So they are going to keep getting more expensive, and alternatives are giong to be necessary. 

[GrassLakeRon]

Would a hybrid setup like 1kw Wind generator, 2kw Solar, and a small gas generator do it for a 400 Sq ft Cabin in the middle of nowhere?

Ron

[tuck2]

1 KW = 1000 watts= ten 100 watt light bulbs.    Amps X volts =watts divided by 1000 = KW.  With DC current you may need battery electric energy storage  and canverter from 12 to 120 Volts. Now I,m over my head, talk to suppliers of wind generators and soler cells. I have a little soler cell (photovotec ?sp) to charge a 12 Volt camper battery. A 400 sq/ ft cabin =16X 25 ft.  What do plan on running with electrei energy

[Cecil]

Dand, Whats the bad features of coal bed methane?

[corbanzo]

Wind and solar arent the best for alaska... solar because in winter when its dark...  it doesnt work, and with the weather patterns, clouds take away.  A lot of places dont have constant wind patterns to support wind generators.  the good places would be between ice fields and other zones where temperature differents keeps a constant airflow...  such as in california on the coast where the ocean wind patterns and the land wind patterns differ so that the zone has a good wind flow. 

Initial expense and upkeep are a huge factor in the production of sustainable power.  The power needs of most of the small villages arent really big enough to justify such an expense.  Traditional food ways are giving way to freezers and other part of western culture (now that I think of it, that influence is eastern culture for the alaska natives) which does require a constant flow of power.  If your power source is unpredictable (such as solar) the gas backup is necessary, which once again brings in more cost for multiple power sources. 

[GrassLakeRon]

10 20w compact bulbs. 1 1w clock. and a small frig/freezer (Apartment size).  Maybe charging the laptop.  I don't need much.

Ron

[Dand]

I'm no expert on coal bed methane but there was a HUGE fuss when CBM exploration got going in the Palmer - Wasilla area.  Best I understand, CBM uses a LOT of water or produces a lot of water that may be quite polluted - water tables can be disrupted or polluted with disposal. Its my understanding that CBM development in Wyoming created quite a mess in some places.

Add to that, some elected (now formerly) officials were making deals and pulling some other questionable activities that added to the fuss in a big way.  One guy resigned and I'm not sure if the other was re-elected or maybe was barely re-elected.

For a lot of land owners, when CBM exploration came to town, it was the first time they learned they didn't have subsurface rights and that CBM could set up on or near their land and drill away.

So there was a big grass roots movement to halt the CBM.  Haven't heard much about it in the last 2 years. Anchorage is running out of gas and they're gonna need something very soon.

New coal exploration near Chickaloon has created a new fuss.


When I lived in Sand Point (AK) in late 80's we had several wind power units but one by one the big storms (100+ mph) took them out. Actually while they ran power was a mess and my computer screen jumped around like crazy. Once the last wind driven generator died, our power settled down.  Those were small units. 

IN the late 70's Nelson Lagoon had a big wind turbine experimentally built by Grumman.  They spent all summer fixing it.  I think the blades were 25 foot each or so.  Many of our places just have too much wind.

Galena was making progress on the nuclear option but may have scrapped it when the military quit paying for runway maintenance and some other facilities. I just haven't heard lately. The market might be too small now.  I have friends there I should ask them.

But for the cabin dweller, there ARE viable power systems available.  I think one place is called R.E.E. or something - Rural Energy Enterprises at www.rural-energy.com.  Wind, solar and combustion combinations are used along with battery storage I think. Or do a google.  I've seen stuff out there - try University of Alaska Extension service too.

[Castaway]

GrassLakeRon, I ain't no sourdough for sure, I live in Florida, but instead of the regular bulbs you are using, you could go to flouresent or even better, LED technology.  LED is 80% efficient, Floresent at 40-50 and regular around 25%.  Might save you enough to stay on-line for a little longer or even heat up a cold moose sandwich.

[deltecs]

Well, first off, where is this 400 square foot cabin going to be.  With the 5 different climates in Alaska, the electrical requirements and costs vary way too much to recommend anything.  Along the coast some solar works in Southeast and South central.  Wind would work on many places along Alaska Peninsula.  I've used diesel for my private home generation for over 27 years.  It is expensive.  Right at this time and with my electrical requirements, I use approximately 210 gals a month running a 20 kw gen set for about 10 hours a day.  The rest of the time I run off a battery bank of golf cart batteries connected to an 1500 W inverter.  The inverter runs the computer system and entertainment center.  TV/VCR/DVD/DISH/ and satellite Internet connection.  I can run the computer setup another 10 hours before the batteries need recharging.  IM me personally if you'd like further info and I'll be glad to answer your questions.

[GrassLakeRon]

What would you use in my situation?  I would like to do both Solar and Wind as well as a gas backup.  10 20w compact bulbs. 1 1w clock. and a small frig/freezer (Apartment size).  Maybe charging the laptop.  I was thinking 4 - Solar Panels at 700w a 1 kw wind generator and a 3000w backup.  I will be there from April till November.  I am still try to nail down a site.

Ron

[deltecs]

Buy some more wire and run a small 12v system in the building.  Buy a 1250  W or approximately sized inverter and connect to a battery bank of 10 6v golf cart batteries connected in series/parallel for a 12 v output and put a good 12 volt battery charger on it with topping regulation.  Connect the solar panels and wind generator to the battery bank with the appropriate regulation and you should be fine for the electrical consumption you plan on using.  However, remember that once you have electricity, you will use more than anticipated, no matter what your intentions are.  Run the gas generator only when needed to recharge the battery bank.  Plan on spending a bit of coin to do this.

[corbanzo]

Candles, coleman fuel, pressure canner.  hahahaha, theres a power source for you.

You would be surprised at how much light a real lantern will put out, it'll even keep up with a light bulb ;-)


If you have low power needs that dont need a constant supply (aka you can empty the fridge) but need to be on all the time when you are there, you could get rechargeable batteries (the big kind) and charge them with a generator, then when they have enough juice for a trickle power flow for a day or two, turn off the generator.  When you need to charge them, turn it back on for a while.  Less noise, less fuel consumption, constant power flow, reliable. 

If you need lots of power right away, you have your generator, and can be running stuff off the generator while you are charging your batteries.

[GrassLakeRon]

Remember this is not a year around place.  I also will be outdoors alot.  I just need a place to crash.  I don't plan on it being a big screen TV, stereo mecca of toys.  Just a simple place to hang my hat at night.  Thanks for all the advice.

Ron