Author Topic: 270WSM vs. 264 Mag? (Read 5112 times)

264 WIN MAG · « **on:** December 12, 2006, 03:49:34 PM »

I was at the range the other day and was talking with a guy that owns a 270WSM. I have never really given the round much thought until I recently found out that it might be a little hard to find 264 Mag components in the future...

The one thing I am wondering is if the 270WSM is as accurate as the 264 Mag. That's the one thing I love about the 264 Mag. The guy that was shooting at the range told me the best he has seen out of his with factory ammo was about 1.5" to 2" groups at 100 yards. With handloads he was shooting down to 1", but on the same day my 264 Mag was putting up .5" or smaller two shot groups. It's possible that it could be the human error...I don't know.

Anyhow, I am not planning on getting a new rifle anytime soon, but maybe within the next year, or before next season...It would be nice to have a rifle that would perform like the 264 Mag on ammo you can get at any Wal-Mart, and that's the major thing about it.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2006, 04:12:36 PM »

I have helped my next door neighbor with his 270WSM Browning A-bolt...and I can tell you...it is exceedingly accurate...He's using the 140 grain Accubond factory load...and you can cover his 5 shot groups with a dime...Sweet shooting rifle...that's for sure...

Mac

poncaguy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2006, 02:19:20 PM »

My Winchester Super Shadow 270WSM shoots 1/2' groups, as does my 300wsm.........factory rounds.

kudzu · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:26:04 PM »

My 270wsm shooting 140AB (FED. FAC.) will just about shoot hole for hole at 100 yards. Rifle is a Ruger M77 Lam/SS. This is not to say that the 270wsm is more accurate than a 264wm. Either can be more or less depending on rifle, loads, etc.

Val · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2006, 05:39:05 PM »

The 270 is so close to the .264, why not go with a .308 or a 30-06?

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2006, 02:00:38 AM »

No offense toward the .308 or the 30-06, but I do a fair bit of long range shooting...neither of those calibers will hold a candle to a 264 win mag downrange IMO. I am talking about shots of 300+ yards, anywhere up to around 600...

My cousin has always been big into the .308 caliber and it's great. I have spent lots of time behind the rifle shooting it and watched him hunting with it for years. I just feel that as far as killing power, the 264 mag has more of it. That's not to mention the downrange ballistics are just so much better.

As for the 30-06, I hunt in Ms. and I know many...many 30-06 fanatics, including most of my family. I have never been a big fan of that caliber. Honestly if someone gave me one I would stick it in the cabinet and it would probably stay there, while I hunted with my 264 mag, or whatever else. I don't know what it is...it's one of those things that you just don't like, but for some reason you can't put a finger on any particular reason why. Maybe you understand that, I don't know. I have spent much time behind a 30-06 though shooting my grandfathers for him siting it in and siting in other peoples. Seems like a decent gun, but I still just feel that the 264 mag has more potential...

Either way, those are two great rounds, just not for me. I would not feel comfortable taking a shot at a deer at 450 yards with either caliber.

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2006, 02:06:15 AM »

O, and to answer your initial question...

I want something that is close to the 264 mag. I have been hunting with it for a long time and taken many deer with it. It's a great caliber with good killing power, and great downrange. That's not to mention the accuracy of the round either...

The only problem is no one makes factory ammo for this caliber so it all has to be handloaded. I get them from people who handload for a living, but right now it's been a hassle because of a shortage of 264 mag brass...Right now I am going hunting this weekend and have one round, and that's it. I ordered a few boxes a while back, but the loader is having trouble finding me brass.

I would like to find something very similar in characteristics to the 264 mag, but in a caliber that you can get factory ammo at just about any store...this would make my life a whole lot easier during this time of the year...or anytime I would like to go to the range and shoot...

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2006, 04:58:33 AM »

Quote from: 264 WIN MAG on December 14, 2006, 02:06:15 AM

O, and to answer your initial question...

I want something that is close to the 264 mag. I have been hunting with it for a long time and taken many deer with it. It's a great caliber with good killing power, and great downrange. That's not to mention the accuracy of the round either...

The only problem is no one makes factory ammo for this caliber so it all has to be handloaded. I get them from people who handload for a living, but right now it's been a hassle because of a shortage of 264 mag brass...Right now I am going hunting this weekend and have one round, and that's it. I ordered a few boxes a while back, but the loader is having trouble finding me brass.

I would like to find something very similar in characteristics to the 264 mag, but in a caliber that you can get factory ammo at just about any store...this would make my life a whole lot easier during this time of the year...or anytime I would like to go to the range and shoot...

http://www.cpcartridge.com/264P.htm

I don't think you've looked everywhere...I know it's pricey...but...they make some damn good ammo...

Mac

Don Fischer · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2006, 05:23:07 AM »

I believe that if you throw away the cronograph and/or quit reading balistic charts you'll find many that will do. The only thing that will preform like a 264 win mag is a 264 win mag. Unless your talking about killing ability in which case, most everything preforms like a 264 win mag if you do your part. Sorta sounds like your trying to decide which girl is the prettiest!

Syncerus · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2006, 05:29:34 AM »

Why not a .270 Weatherby?

victorcharlie · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2006, 06:26:45 AM »

Absolutely no problem finding .270 win brass. The same goes for 30.06.

Relatively inexpensive ammunition is also available for both rounds.

Your .264 is very good round but obscure, partially because the early ones were thought to have limited barrel life.

The commonality of a particular cartridge such as the .270 and 06 make things much easier.

I've got to agree with Don.........ain't no deader than dead and a lot more common calibers will kill just as dead as the .264.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2006, 08:31:08 AM »

I almost bought a .264 Winchester Magnum, but baby needed shoes. It was a good deal and it hurt a little when my neighbor took advantage of the good deal. We would continually discuss the merits of the .270 Winchester, the .264 Winchester. It has been close to thirty years and I do not think that he has taken it hunting. Not the fault of a fine rifle.

One early morning I heard the boom of a cannon a few hundred yards from my stand. I drifted over to the location a man and his son were with two large forks. Behind the shoulder of each deer was a fifty-cent size exit hole. Dad was telling the confused 12-year old how to fill out his tag, and at the same time he was trying to convenience me the boy had shot the deer with his 30-30. I was impressed with the .264 but not with the dad. Dad told me that he stocked up with ammunition some years before and he reloaded Speer bullets. As I recall the .264 ammunition had to be loaded with dual diameter bullets for safest results. The dual diameter reduced the bullet bearing surface and drop pressures to a reasonable level.

As a fan of the .277 bullets I would like a .270WMS, but I do not think it has a great future. In a few years it will be hard to find ammunition and brass for it. The most realistic option is the 7MM Remington Magnum, the round that put the spike in the .264 Winchesters coffin. Factory ammunition can be found in most locations that ammunition is sold. The reloader has a large selection of bullets from 120 grains to over 175 grain. There is a bunch of quality bullets that fall in the 120 to 140 grain range, which mirror .264 ballistics. The 120-grain bullet can be cranked out at 3400-3500 feet per second, or if you want to match the classic .264 and use a 140-145 grain bullet you can push it at over 3200 f.p.s. Being conservative I push the 145-grain Speer around 3170 f.p.s with H4831. A very accurate load. I normally do not hunt with it because I look for full penetration, and like to save some meat. The 160-grain Speer does the job at over 3000 f.p.s.

The .264 Winchester is a great round, but the market place is a tough place. If my former neighbor wanted to sell his .264 Winchester at the right price I might take advantage of the situation. I believe he would have a hard time because most guys want to be able to walk into the local gun store and buy ammunition. It is likely you are going to pay top dollar for .264 Winchester ammunition. Every year I see 30-06, .270 Win., and 30-30 Winchester on Sale. But I have never seen .264 Winchester on sale. The last time I seen it in a store they wanted around $35.00 for a box. The same store was selling 30-06 for around $14 or $15 dollars a box. The .264 is a tough deal for the non-reloader.

I like the 6.5 bullets and have taken deer with the 6.5x55 using a 140-grain bullet. A fine and very effective deer round. One of my brothers is a wildcatter. He loves the 6.5 whatever. He spends a fortune on custom dies. His latest 6.5, is a 6.5-.284 Winchester. This is a wildcat that has become a standard case, and bulk cases can be bought. I told him he was craze to build something on the .284 case because it is deader then the .264 Win. But I was fooled; Winchester is now making runs of bulk .284 cases. It is an example of what can happen to a dying case. So there might be a ray of light for .264 Winchester owners.

tuck2 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2006, 09:23:34 AM »

Remington list a 264 Mag rifle on their web site. I dident check the site for ammo because I reload for my Win Mdl 70 w/ a 26 inch barrel. I load a Hornady 140 Gr SST bullet in front of 68.5 Gr Ramshot Magnum powder ,Rem 9 1/2 primer in Win cases. MV 3200 ft/sec. Do not get a .264 Win with less than a 26 inch barrel .

Luckyducker · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2006, 03:59:47 PM »

I just this past summer had a custom FN Mauser rebarreled to 264Win and I have found that the 7MMRemington Mag brass works great for 264 handloads. I run the 7MM cases through my 264 neck sizer die and they are ready to load. I really think they are just as accurate as the loads built from 264 brass if not more accurate.

shilo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2006, 04:21:07 PM »

As Luckyducker said, simply form 264 cases from 7 mag brass.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2006, 05:29:06 AM »

6.5 Remington Magnum
Part #   Description   Retail
23281A   100 Pack   51.20
23281B   250 Pack   118.05
23281C   500 Pack   220.10
23281D   1000 Pack   411.98

U264B   .264 Win   30.98

A little research might get you some cases. While this is not MidSouth, they do list .264 dies. And they might be able to get the brass you need.
Midsouth Shooters Supply 770 Economy Dr Clarksville, TN 37043
Phone (toll-free):       1-800-272-3000
Phone (local):       (931) 553-8651
Fax:       (931) 503-8037
E-mail:       mss@midsouthshooterssupply.com
Hours:       Mon-Fri, 8am-6pm CST

jdt48653 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2006, 11:15:53 AM »

like mac11700 said,
you can buy 140gr hornady SPs from conley precision cartridge co. 3,200fps for about 24.00 per box.also it uses the same brass as
7mm rem mag,
338 win mag
458 win mag
greatest 6.5 ever made. also has better down range energy than 270,7mm rem mag
ammo is a lot cheaper then 270 weatherby.normal hunting you would never wear out the barrel
needs 26'' or longer.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:53:57 PM »

Here's a source for new 264 brass...https://brassworldonline.org/sess/utn;jsessionid=1545862c2d5ae75/shopdata/index.shopscript...in case you need it..

Mac

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #18 on:** December 18, 2006, 03:59:20 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on December 14, 2006, 04:58:33 AM

Quote from: 264 WIN MAG on December 14, 2006, 02:06:15 AM
O, and to answer your initial question...

I want something that is close to the 264 mag. I have been hunting with it for a long time and taken many deer with it. It's a great caliber with good killing power, and great downrange. That's not to mention the accuracy of the round either...

The only problem is no one makes factory ammo for this caliber so it all has to be handloaded. I get them from people who handload for a living, but right now it's been a hassle because of a shortage of 264 mag brass...Right now I am going hunting this weekend and have one round, and that's it. I ordered a few boxes a while back, but the loader is having trouble finding me brass.

I would like to find something very similar in characteristics to the 264 mag, but in a caliber that you can get factory ammo at just about any store...this would make my life a whole lot easier during this time of the year...or anytime I would like to go to the range and shoot...

http://www.cpcartridge.com/264P.htm

I don't think you've looked everywhere...I know it's pricey...but...they make some damn good ammo...

Mac

I have been buying from Cole for a long time. He has had a little trouble finding new 264 brass here lately. That's what initially made me think about getting a new gun because I have been buying ammo there for years and if he couldn't get any more I would just get a new rifle and forget all the trouble.

Anyhow I found Superior ammo and they told me they have plenty of 264 brass and they made me up some ammo...Hopefully they will have ammo for a while for this caliber and maybe I'll get the 270WSM as well...

Thanks everyone for all the help

Don Dick · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:14:34 AM »

If I want to shoot a 140 grain bullet fast I`ll use a 7mm ultra mag.

shilo · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:46:53 AM »

The 270WSM while a good round has a somewhat questionable future. Factory ammo may not be readily available everywhere. The 264 Win is also a good round, but I can't rememeber seeing factory ammo for it anywhere. Might be able to order it from somewhere. So why not pick a round that wil do everything those two will and then some? 7mm Rem Mag. Readily available in many places with a wide variety of loads available.

nasem · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2006, 11:42:24 AM »

Umm.... If I had a choice between the 2 calibers you mentioned.... I would go with option C (Neither)

For the 270 WSM, im sure its a great caliber and all but I don't see it solving any problems that thier typical older brothers didn't solve.

As for the 264 mag, pshhhh, please, I'd take a 7mm mag ANY day of the week IF I wanted something balistically supperior to the "standard 308 or 30-06". If the 264 is soo great and godly, why is it almost extinct?

Someone mentioned that they think the 264 win mag has more killing power than a 308? Umm..... Yep I agree with you, and I'd like to add that my 22 LR has more killing power than a 458 win mag.

My advice to you is, if you want to add something new to your gun collection, get something you don't have, like a large-medium bore (338 or even a 375). All this 264, 270, 30-06, 308 are in the same family if you ask me, sure one is flatter than the other, and one can handle heavier bullets than the other, but I place all of them in the same family. Evertying from 6.5MM to 7.62 is in the same family. Next family is anything from 8mm to 9.3+.

My ULTIMATE dream is narrow down my gun collection, that way I don't have the "which gun to take" Syndrome.

Varmint: 223
Work horse: 30-06
Same practicality as "work horse" but flatter: 7mm mag
Large North american game: 338 win mag
Eating me? : 416 rigby

As far as now goes, I have all these calibers (except the 416, I placed an order for it last friday), and many many more.

Lone Star · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2006, 06:48:32 PM »

Both Winchester and Remington list .264 ammo on their websites, so it should still be available with some research. I think that in five to ten years the .270 WSM will be as hard to find as .264 ammo is now. I could be wrong, but if that is important to you - why take the chance?

While a lot is said about the long-range performance of the .264, the reality is it is not that far ahead of a good .270. I'm talking real-world velocities out of hunting rifles, not fantasy printed in ballistic tables. From Speer #9:

.264 Win Mag, 26" barrel, 140 WW = 3139 fps
.264 Win Mag, 24" barrel, 140 WW = 3077 fps
.270 WCF, 22" barrel, 130 WW = 3058 fps

Less than 100 fps more velocity even comparing a 26" barrel to a 22" barrel; in the more common 24" barrel the difference is just 19 fps! True, the .264 bullet is 10 grain heavier and has a higher BC, but in reality the performance difference is pretty darned small at reasonable ranges. Switching to a better bullet in the .270 would put it on par with the factory .264 ammo. BTW, actual test data in Nosler #2 is almost identical to what Speer reported.

Even using the ballistic tables supplied by the ammo makers, the .270 isn't far behind the .264. Compare the Remington .264/140PSPCL to the .270/130PSPCL, the .264 has just 200 ft lbs more energy and drops just 2 less that the .270 at 500 yards - hardly a huge difference.

This isn't meant to disparage the .264 and I'm not a huge .270 fan - but the stark truth is the magnum is not as far ahead of non-magnum cartridges as all the hype claimed. If I were the OP I'd keep the .264 and concentrate on feeding it with either hoarded factory ammo, or I'd find a reloader who can be bothered to find the cases - Huntington's lists them as do other suppliers.
.

tuck2 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 22, 2006, 08:40:21 AM »

The Feb 2005 No. 233 issue of Riflles Handloader Ammunition Reloading Journal artical (New Powders in the .264 Winchester Magnum ) is worth reading for the .264 Winchester fans. The reloads listed from a 26 inch barrel , 140 Gr bullet 3,200 ft/sec,130 Gr bullet 3,300 ft/sec,and 120 Gr bullet 3,400 ft/sec, A copy may be available from Wolfe Publishing Co. Tel (928)445-7810.