Question for JJ... What is the most common caliber for PG hunting in africa

[nasem]

I am in a position where I am saving a couple grand every year.... in the next few years, my brother and I will be going to africa for a PG hunt.......

About a few weeks ago, I sold my one and only 338 win mag, it was a browning bar (Got sick of the semi auto bussiness.... I like having VERY tight groups..... however factory ammo never accomplished that for me)

I have read a few of your posts on how much you like a 30-06 with super premium ammo (barnes TSX, hornady interbonds, nosler accubonds, etc).  and Now I am itching for a reason to buy a 338 win mag in a bolt action.....  The rifles I have in mind are Winchester classic stainless with the classic CRF (I WISH i can get one for under $600.... yeh I know Im dreaming), Tikka stainless lite, Browning A-bolt, Weatherby Vangard, or one of the remingtons 700 XCR.

What is the most commond caliber / gun you see with your clients ?  and what do you recommend of the once I mentioned above, keep in mind that accuracy is my number one thing.

[JJHACK]

Any rifle should manage hunting accuracy from the box. I'm not much for bench rest shooting so I cannot comment on the most precise model or cartridge. When I rifle I shoot can do better then an 1.5-2 MOA  I'm going hunting. The ability to get on target quick and shoot with an improvised rest or free hand is by a large margin more important then hole touching groups.

I would not personally own a Browning A bolt rifle if it were given to me for free. It's had more frequent problems in my camps then all other rifles combined. In my opinion it's the lowest quality rifle I've ever seen produced. Makes no difference that they are very accurate from the box if they jam, break, crack, or misfeed. Hunting does not need Accuracy as a #1 priority it requires functionality as that #1 priority in my opinion. 

300 magnums are brought over more frequently then all other cartridges combined. Nothing even comes close in frequency. Every hunting rifle I own right now it a Winchester CRF bolt action. I'm nearing the completion of my 25/06 which will be on a SS Ruger CRF action. My first Ruger, but it's a complete custom job only some parts of the reciever and bolt remain, nothing else is Ruger. So it's really like a custom made gun built around the foundation of the Ruger action.

Anyhting bigger then .308 in Diameter gets better in a hurry 338's are way better then 300 magnums, and 375;s way better then 338's so on and so forth. Big holes are better killers. The 338 is a fantastic rifle with extremely lethal power. One of the best all around non-DG cartridges ever created.

[nasem]

Alright, so, what are some of the most common gun makers you see on PG hunts ?  Not many makers make the CRF action (without of course the custom gun makers or the really expensive stuff), only winchester did and those are not easy to come by....  Also, what is your experience or thoughts on the vanguards and the Tikkas... are they reliable ?

[JJHACK]

Nobody need a CRF rifle, plenty of push feeds are used and work without flaw. I have no issue with a hunter using a PF rifle. I don't prefer them personally, but I take no issue with others using them.

Winchesters are not easy to find but certainly not a difficulty. I see them for sale all the time. I have a new Winchester Long action here in my vault I will sell today. So they are around. I think for me, I would buy a Montana rifle action and barrel stick it in a Accurate Innovations laminated stock and have one killer package that nobody could beat out of the box. That's gonna be under 1500 bucks and will be a supreme hunting machine with bench rest accuracy.

Second choice would be a Kimber. Although if it were me I would look around a little bit for a used SS Model 70 and scrap all but the action to build the gun I wanted. It would be the same as just going the Montana Rifles route though, The Montana action is better, and the barrles are the best in the business today. So I would just bite the bullet and do that. The quality and pride of ownership will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. Go to the website and see for your self. 1500 bucks for the finest combination of gun and wood you cannot do better with a 3500 dollar Dakota Rifle!

[lgm270]

Nobody need a CRF rifle, plenty of push feeds are used and work without flaw. I have no issue with a hunter using a PF rifle. I don't prefer them personally, but I take no issue with others using them.

Winchesters are not easy to find but certainly not a difficulty. I see them for sale all the time. I have a new Winchester Long action here in my vault I will sell today. So they are around. I think for me, I would buy a Montana rifle action and barrel stick it in a Accurate Innovations laminated stock and have one killer package that nobody could beat out of the box. That's gonna be under 1500 bucks and will be a supreme hunting machine with bench rest accuracy.

Second choice would be a Kimber. Although if it were me I would look around a little bit for a used SS Model 70 and scrap all but the action to build the gun I wanted. It would be the same as just going the Montana Rifles route though, The Montana action is better, and the barrles are the best in the business today. So I would just bite the bullet and do that. The quality and pride of ownership will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. Go to the website and see for your self. 1500 bucks for the finest combination of gun and wood you cannot do better with a 3500 dollar Dakota Rifle!

Where can you get a Dakota rifle for $3,500.00?

[cjensen]

Where can you get a Dakota rifle for $3,500.00?



http://dakotaarms.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=D97_Wood&category=Dakota_97_Hunter_Series&keywords=&hits_seen=&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=&exact_match=yes

[Devy55]

I can tell you that the 35 is a great caliber for any plains game, and can take most medium to large game in the the world.  Every animal I shot went down with one bullet.  That included everything from Kudu down to Springbok.  The 35 Whelen is a large slow round by today's standards, but it really packs a wallup.  The slower velocity of the 200-225-250 grain bullet reduced the amount of body damage to the animals, even though it penetrated completely through.  One shot traversed almost the entire body cavity of a Blesbok as it was walking away at a slight quartering angle from 135 yards. 

The only drawback to this round is that it is not good for long range shots because of bullet trajectory.  It still carries a fair amount of energy, but shooting beyond 200-250 yards and it's like firing artillery.  So if you are shooting game at ranges less than that, as you often can in Africa, then it is perfectly suitable.

JJ added the following:

I have had a number of hunters bring the 338/06 and the 35 whelen over the years. Both are absolutely outstanding Plains game cartridges. Maybe among the best ever for the bush.

I can find no fault with either one of them for general bag plains game hunting. If I had to choose between them I think I would fall on the side of the 338/06 becuase it's a bit flatter, and there are so many excellent bullets in this caliber.

The 35 Whelen has no dust settling on it and is as near a perfect plains game rifle as you could have. I think the shortcoming of this rifle is the range, being about a 250 yard gun when sighted in at 200. 250 yards is still about as far as 99% of the hunters I have seen can actually shoot in bush conditions if they admit the truth about their skills.

It provides an excellent blood trail and with a bonded bullet there is usually a visible shudder upon impact. These two are among my favorite all time rifles for all plains game and all NA game. They both fall short for the thick skinned game for overall performance. Other then that they are simply awsome!

[Cheesehead]

Is an Encore rifle in an adequate caliber acceptable for plains game hunting?

Cheese

[Devy55]

Encore is an excellent rifle.  Since it has interchangable barrells, suitability really depends upon the caliber.  I have a relative who is retired from the US Wildlife service in Alaska.  He has hunted Alaska and all over the US with an Encore, plus he's been to Africa 3 times with it, and is coordinating for a safari in 2008.

The only MINOR drawback with any is single shot firearm, is that it takes a few seconds longer to put the second round down range.  Plus, you have to remove the gun from your shoulder to eject and replace rounds, which means you have to re-acquire the target (as opposed to a bolt action that can eject and insert a fresh cartridge without being removed from the shoulder).  You can still get second shots, if necessary, but trying to shoot a wounded animal while it's hysterically running away, no matter what is in your arsenal, is an excercise in futility anyway.  This being so, any single shot rifle like an Encore, H&R, Rossi, or muzzle loader, tends to teach you to be very deliberate on that first shot count, and not rely on subsequent shots to finish the job.

All that said, the Encore is an outstanding product, perfectly acceptable for plains game, plus may even help become a better marksman and hunter.

[JJHACK]

A couple things come to mind here. First let me say I've used a contender in 375JDJ extensively in Africa and it was flawless!

The interchangeable barrels must be serial numbered and count as a "gun" so the most you could bring with you to RSA would be two barrels and they must have serial numbers imprinted on them. One can match the reciever, the other can be what ever you want so long as they have a serial number on them. RSA does not recognise the action as the gun, the recognise the barrel as the "gun"  Keep that in mind if you choose to do this.

As far as being able to cycle the action while shouldered...................well I've been a big game hunter my whole adult life and I've never managed this with any big game size bolt rifle. Even when attending the very difficult Professional Hunting academy with timed shooting events did I see a single student cycle the bolt while shouldered when using anything larger then .308 diameter. I think doing this would put your eye and the back of the bolt in conflict with many Bolt designs, further the recoil from a hunting weight cartridge will dislodge the cheek to stock fit and cause you to lower the stock slightly.

If you have not tried to do this it seems logical, and maybe for a .223 it would work. However that theory is not really gonna fly in the real life function of a firearm used for big game.