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Author Topic: 357 mag low POI Update  (Read 1532 times)

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Offline Don_K

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357 mag low POI Update
« on: December 11, 2006, 10:23:05 AM »
Guys,

I just had a 357 mag barrel factory fitted to my receiver and finally got it to the range on Sunday for a few rounds. With the rear sight in the uppermost position it still shoots 2-3 inches low at 25yds with 158gr bullets.  I'm using H110 under Win JHP, Hornady XTP, and Speer Gold Dot. The groups are very consistant and are all around 1"-2" with no flyers, just 2-3 inches low.  I was unable to get to the 50yd stations due to the range being so busy so I don't have 50 yd data.  I called H&R and they want the gun back because "There must be something wrong".  The gun locks up tight and seems ok other than the low poi. What do you guy's think? Thanks for your help.   - Don

(This is my first post but I've been a lurker for a while.  In fact the info available on this site is why I bought my H&R in the first place.)
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Offline mt3030

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2006, 10:39:22 AM »
Don_K:
First, welcome to the forum. Second, I'm thinking that they want to check if the correct sight was installed. There are several front sights with different heights. Just a guess. The customer service at NEF will do everything they can for ya.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2006, 10:43:46 AM »
Welcome aboard Don!! Having the wrong front sight on rifle isn't a first occurence here, H&R has lots of models with different front sights, more than likely, they've just put the wrong one on it and as Wally stated, just need to check it. There've been reports that they were going to return to using their own proprietary sights on their rifles, what kind of front sight does it have now? If it's attached with a 6-48 screw, you can probably replace it with a Williams shorty ramp and a firesight insert to get the proper height. See the Peep and Firesights link in the FAQ for Williams sight height guide.

You could also determine what height you need and just ask H&R to send you the right front sight for it, probably depends on whether you like the sight that's on it, I know I don't care for the plain black blade or the plastic fiber optic sights they've used in the past.

Tim





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Offline Don_K

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2006, 10:57:07 AM »
Thanks for the quick response.
The front sight is currently .540 and is the flat blade type. The attachment screw is a tiny allen head, I'm not sure of the thread size.  Is there a shorter sight available from H&R? - Don
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Offline bajabill

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2006, 11:00:26 AM »
call em

I needed a taller site and they sent it out very quickly and with no hastle.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2006, 11:14:49 AM »
Don, my .357 barrel has a ~.415" sight as best I can measure it. My hornet barrel has a ~.540" sight and the .45-70 has a .470" sight. Older barrels used a #3 or #4 screw as near as I can figure out, it's much smaller than the current barrels.

Tim
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Offline Don_K

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 01:06:45 PM »
Ok,
Home from the office now and took some pics and futher measurements.  I was off on the first front sight measurement or perhaps I'm not measuring correctly.  My process for these measurements are as follows:
The barrel measures .7500" at the sight location.  It's 1.3200" from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the front sight, a delta of .570" I've included pics of the front and rear sight. This front sight seems rather high to me. What do you think?

 Thanks to everyone for staying with me on this, I appreciate the help.  I just want to be able to speak intellegently to the people at H&R when I call.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2006, 01:18:53 PM »
I think they put the Hornet sight on it!! Ask em for a lower sight that should match your rear sight better.  There's a sight height calculator on page 18 in the Williams catalog in the link below from the FAQ. ;)

Tim

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/pdf/WilliamsLoRes.pdf
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Offline Datil

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2006, 01:25:01 PM »

 Welcome to the wonderful world of Handi-holics.
 The best of my thoughts that sight is to tall,
 sights are all gone from  my Handis Old eyes can
 not get by without scopes. Good luck Marv.
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Offline Fred M

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2006, 03:05:41 PM »
Just file the front sight down about 0.040" to be on a 25yards.

If you give me the exact distance  between the front and rear sight I tell you excactly how much lower you have to be.
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Offline Don_K

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2006, 05:18:12 PM »
According to the sight calculation formula on the Williams web site, my front sight is approximately .051 too tall to work with the current height of my rear sight. This calculation is based on moving my rear sight back to the middle of the adjustment. ( Yesterday after examining my targets I came up with .048 based on sight radius, distance to the target and poi vs poa so I'm fairly confident in a number around .050) It looks like a front sight height around .520 will do the trick.  I'll call H&R in the morning and see if they have something close.  If not I'll explore other options, including milling the existing sight down to where it needs to be.

I can't thank you guy's enough for the help, it is really appreciated. I have other rifles, but these Handi's are just plain fun. As I learn more about the Handi addiction, hopefully I will be able to make a contribution and help those who helped me.

So far - Synthetic 243 superlite 20",  243 standard contour 22", 357mag and 22mag Ultra Varmint. It's all good.  - Don
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Offline Don_K

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 01:02:54 PM »
Update,
 I spoke to H&R today and after explaining the low POI and describing the height and shape of the front sight, the tech thinks my 357mag barrel has a 22 Hornet sight on it by mistake. They are sending me the correct sight.  I'll post results after testing at the range. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions. - Don
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 01:09:30 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on December 11, 2006, 01:18:53 PM
I think they put the Hornet sight on it!! Ask em for a lower sight that should match your rear sight better.  There's a sight height calculator on page 18 in the Williams catalog in the link below from the FAQ. ;)

Tim

That was my guess!! ;D I win...I win...I win.....er....sorry!!!  Glad ya got it figured out, Don!!

Tim
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 01:18:14 PM »
Great job and fine detective work Quick.

Don K be sure you let us know how it works out.

Quick, could it be that tonights the night? 14 to go buddy, this is like the coundown to New Years!!!....<><.... :D
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 01:21:17 PM »
 ;D one less!! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Don_K

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2006, 03:18:29 AM »
Guy's,
 I just received the replacement sight in the mail for my 357 barrel. The original sight was .570" the new sight is .470". This should correct the low POI.  I'll get to the range this week (weather permitting) and let you know how it works. - Don
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 357 mag low POI
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2006, 06:09:12 AM »
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Offline Don_K

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Re: 357 mag low POI Update
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2006, 10:20:16 AM »
Well I finally got to the range today and it was all good. The gun shot great with the new (correct) sight. POA was POI. It didn't seem to matter what I fed it the groups were all very tight. So for anyone worried about the accuracy of the 357mag barrel I'll post a couple of targets. These are among the best of the day although all the loads worked very well and nothing was more than .8 all day.
Thanks again everyone for the help, Don
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: 357 mag low POI Update
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2006, 10:57:19 AM »
Thats great, now someday all you have to do is to ream it out to .357 Max. Of course if yours is similar to my long throated .357 Mag barrel (before it became a Max) it can comfortably and accurately shoot .360 Dan Wesson ammo just as it is, and that stuff is as much as you really need for a whiutetail as long as you put it in the right place. Congratulations on your fine shooting .357 Handi, they are really fun and "Handy" Handis. If you get a chance, shoot some .38 Special wadcutters out of it, as good as mine shoots the Mags it shoots the .38 wadcutters even better, and what a great squirrel, rabbiot, and close range varmint round they make...Happy New Year!!!.....<><.... :)
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"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
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