Author Topic: 410 for Home Defense  (Read 1851 times)

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Offline Cookiemann

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410 for Home Defense
« on: February 15, 2006, 11:30:09 AM »
OK, I know this has been beaten to death on the forums, but cut me some slack for a moment.

Please follow this link and read the story about Vice President Cheney and the shooting incident.  
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20060215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_19
Now, imagine this...had he been aiming at Whittington, the man would most likely be dead.  That's at 30 yards, 360 feet, with #7 1/2 shot.  At Home Defense distances a 410 with standard field loads will most certainly GET'R DONE.

Unfortunate accident, but a good reminder, to BE SAFE OUT THERE.

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Offline Ocsamschainsaw

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410 for Home Defense
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2006, 01:25:19 PM »
A .410 with slugs has roughly the same muzzle energy, IIRC, as a .357 magnum cartridge. Nothing to sneeze at.
That having been said, if I were choosing a shoulder arm for home defense, I'd step it up to a 20 gauge...
And if it's a single shot..
well, a .410 would do, most certainly, but with only one shot up the pipe, wouldn't you wish for more insurance? Again, I wouldn't feel undergunned with a single shot .410.. I don't with a 6 shot .357 by the nightstand, that's for sure...but..I'd want something bigger, hehe.
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Offline stimpylu32

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410 for Home Defense
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2006, 03:50:51 AM »
If a .410 was my only choice this is what i would load in it , at right around 1200 fps these will flat do the trick for inside home defense .

http://www.sb-usa.com/shotshell_pages/buckshot_410.htm

That being said i feel that the 16 or 20 ga. would be a far better choice with not much added recoil .

Yet even the lowly .410 beats a broom stick .
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline myarmor

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410 for Home Defense
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2006, 04:04:42 AM »
If it's a matter of Home Defense I would opt for a faster gun than a Pardner or Topper Single Shot. I love'um and in a situation where defense is needed from an intruder,  I am guessing that one doesn't have much time to go and check out which gun is best for the job. More like whats closest.
But as for the caliber in question-a .410, I am sure it would do the job or slow down anyone.
 Though I can't speak from experiance :)  :wink:
-Aaron

Offline Ridge Runner

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Re: 410 for Home Defense
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2006, 03:57:14 PM »
Here is an article about .410 for defense:

http://www.endtimesreport.com/homedefense.html


HOME DEFENSE

We are no longer naive. We will need to defend our homes, indeed our very lives, from now into the future. Only call 911 for an antidote for poison. The status quo is that the bad guys are there and gone before the police can even respond. All they can do is take information for the next of kin. Besides, the Supreme Court has already ruled that police have a duty to the community at large, not to any one individual. That's right - the police have "No Affirmative Duty to Protect" us, affirmed by many court decisions! When your home experiences an "home invasion," try defending yourself with your kid’s baseball bat against bad guys armed with AK-47's.


Our country is polarized because of rabid attack liberals with their blatant politics of personal destruction, their vicious win at all costs attitude, that the predations will never be over. It is the beginning of the end for freedom.

Understand this well. The liberals have declared war on our Republic, pure and simple. "It" will never be the same again. They either don’t know, or don’t care, what they have unleashed. Total assault on one side can only be met with bold defense – or subjugation – on the other side. The liberals forgot that it is one thing to loose rabid dogs, quite another thing to cage them before they turn on the hand that feeds them. The contagion spreads, affecting others who feel "disenfranchised." The result? Anarchy. It will happen. And when it happens, will you be able to defend yourself?

PERSONAL DEFENSE IS NOT THE SAME AS HOME DEFENSE. Personal defense means always having the means to defend yourself available at all times.  The North American Arms mini revolver in .22 LR shown at right only weighs 4 ounces, but 5 rounds of hollow points are better than a sharp stick anytime!  Sure, a .45 auto is vastly superior to a .22 in battle, but personal defense often comes down to a knife versus a gun...and a gun wins every time, particularly if the handgun is readily available.  The excellent Multi-Purpose carry case can hold a mini .22 and some ammo in a belt case that does not appear to be a holster.  Available at my Survival Shop.
 
 

IF YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE ONLY ONE WEAPON FOR HOME DEFENSE.....

Pepper sprays and slingshots will work just fine to infuriate an enemy...might as well build a catapult and hurl your stored food, and when that runs out, fling them your wife and kids. So ultimately, we’re talking guns for home defense.


(NOTE: What I am going to say about firearms is for defensive use, not offensive use, and within the narrow view of Home Defense only - the purpose of this article. This is not to say that other weapons would not be very useful for other purposes, or that other weapons could not be used for Home Defense!  This narrow definition is being written for those who do NOT already own firearms, and only wish one (1) weapon for Home Defense only. Personally, I believe the more, the merrier.  The lowly .22 Long Rifle is incredibly useful for survival, as are the newer spring-powered air rifles that can attain 1000 fps in .17 caliber.)

 
The primary object in home defense is to hit the target while avoiding such power and penetration that unintended victims are not hit. Obviously, if you are familiar with and have firearms, you are going to use what you have. But if you don’t have a firearm and are going to buy one (1) for home defense, I recommend a shotgun. But not just any shotgun. Most common shotguns are 12 gauge waterfowl guns with long, full choke barrels. They are unwieldy in confined spaces, more powerful than required, overly noisy in confined spaces, and "kick" too much for novice shooters.

 A 12 gauge "riot" shotgun fired in a house produces an incredibly deafening blast!
 

12 gauge "riot" shotguns with folding stocks are a particular problem with the stock unfolded. The hard synthetic stock is straight or slightly raised toward the front, not sloped downward toward the action.  When the shotgun is fired, the shotgun raises in recoil, and the hard synthetic stock seems to jump straight up into your cheekbone with a teeth rattling jolt.  A softer cheek piece is needed, and it should be black or dark grey to match the stock and sturdy closed cell foam, so it will not hold water.  The answer?  Water pipe insulation tubing!  The tubing is 3/8" thick foam, so it is thin enough to allow the stock to fold in the normal manner, yet thick enough to provide some cushioning from the brutal recoil when used unfolded.

 At left is a 4" long piece of 3/4" pipe insulation glued to the top of the folding butt stock using "Household Goop."  A channel was cut out of the round pipe insulation (as shown) for a good fit. The 3/8" insulation makes a soft cheek piece, the shotgun can be fired without the feeling your teeth are going to rattle loose, and the stock still folds up tight against the action.
 

As women and older children could be using this home defense shotgun, bulk, weight, recoil and noise are definitely factors to consider. Thus, a .410 bore shotgun is a great choice. A 3 inch .410 shot shell fires 3/4 ounce of shot at 1100 feet per second, resulting in approximately 800 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle, and a 2 ½" .410 with ½ ounce of shot produces approximately 600 foot pounds at the muzzle. The delivered energy at the defense ranges considered here are greater than a .357 Magnum revolver cartridge, but the longer barrel and greater weight of the shotgun results in less than half the noise and recoil. More important, the shot pattern is about 8 inches in diameter at 20 feet (full choke), and does not generally penetrate a wall, whereas a .357 Mag bullet pierces walls easily...and unintended victims on the other side.

  In the close confines of home defense, a small dot laser light has limited usefulness.  I mounted a 1" tube light with 8 super-bright LED's and a tail button switch.  In the dark, the LED light is more than enough...if the target is lit up, it will be hit. The nice wide, non-marring clamp is model #SMC-1100 from www.allenslaw.com .
 


(There are those who will claim that the lowly .410 shot shell is too underpowered, even less than a .357 Magnum revolver. They are making their judgment based on recoil - comparing a .357 Magnum revolver versus a .410 shotgun. Bad comparison, as a full length shotgun is heavier and held by two hands. I've got a .45 Colt/.410 derringer:  recoil with a 2 1/2" .410 is extremely heavy, far worse than with a .357 Magnum derringer, and stronger than with the .45 Colt; recoil with a full length 3" Magnum .410 shot shell is fearsome enough to make just hanging onto the derringer extremely difficult. That recoil is easily tamed by the weight and length of a .410 shotgun.)

Of course home defense means more than defense against two legged creature. In any breakdown of civilization, a weapon like a shotgun becomes critical. Pet dogs are abandoned, join in packs and quickly become feral. The can, and do, attack domestic animals, pets, and are even a danger to children. Raccoons can get into a chicken coop and kill a flock very quickly. Rabid dogs are not uncommon in a societal disaster. These must be dispatched quickly, yet they are a moving target and hard to hit. This is where a shotgun really shines, as the pattern of shot is easier to put on target than a single bullet fired by someone shaking under extreme anxiety and stress, and repeat shots are more likely to put additional pellets into the target zone. A .410 bore, 3" magnum with #4 pellets is up to the task -- at reasonable ranges. Don't think these are 100 yard range weapons!

Hunting for food may well be necessary in the future. Small birds such as quail can be taken with a 2 ½" .410, larger birds with a 3" magnum, and game up to deer (at fairly close ranges) taken with a .410 slug load.

 
THE BEST HOME DEFENSE .410 SHOTGUN?



One excellent .410 bore shotgun for home defense was actually designed specifically for that task...wonder of wonders. The Mossberg HS410 (the "HS" an acronym for "Home Security", model #50359) is a 6 shot pump action shotgun with an 18 ½" barrel having a spreader choke, ideal for close action shooting in home defense situations. The stock is synthetic and the right length of pull for women and older children (but still works with large men), the action extremely rugged and reliable, and the short length makes it very handy in confined spaces. The price? About $360.00 in 2005.

Now there is another excellent .410 bore shotgun on the market which may well be as good as or better than the Mossberg HS410 - the SAIGA .410 SHOTGUN. The cost of the Saiga is only about $270.00 - delivered, in 2005.  It is an adaptation of the Kalashnikov designed AK-47 designed to fire .410 Magnum shot shells, has a semi-automatic action, and it comes with two magazines.  With its 19" barrel, it would be handy in confined places, and it also comes with two choke tubes, increasing its versatility. The rate of fire would be better than with the Mossberg, and reliability is reportedly extremely high, but as with everything there are other factors to consider:  A semi-auto action is less tolerant of loads than a slide action such as the Mossberg, so reloading for the Saiga requires more care and testing to be certain of reliable feeding.  More information on the Saiga .410 shotgun can be found at http://www.weareguns.com/saiga.html



An additional .410 shotgun which some may want to consider is the Winchester lever action 9410, a variation of the venerable Winchester 94 lever action first introduced on January 1, 1895. In some variations, it holds 9 rounds of 2 1/2" shells in a very long tubular magazine, but the overall length is not conducive to easy handling in a home as compared with the overall length of either the Saiga or the Mossberg HS410.  The 9410 is not chambered for the 3" Magnum .410 shell.  Loading a tubular magazine is slower than simply changing magazines as with the Saiga, and it costs more than the Saiga.  Nevertheless, there are those who love lever actions, and this is the only one of which I am aware that is chambered for .410 shotshells.  www.cdnnsports.com has both the Saiga semi-auto and Winchester 9410 lever action at very competitive prices.

One lonely .410 shotgun will not suffice as complete home defense against a determined band armed with 7.62 x 39 mm AK-47's. But that is not the issue here. Either the Mossberg HS410 or the Saiga .410 will provide deterrence against such attacks, and time is always on your side in any conflict: given resistance, most attackers will give up and go on to easier pickings. Against a lesser attack, either shotgun should be equal to the task at hand, and far better than nothing at all.

If you already have a good selection of home defense weapons, make sure you can reload for all of them. Ammo will make great barter stock in the future. My booklet, "Survival Reloading," includes reloading data for just about any cartridge (not shot shells) you would ever encounter, using hand tools or bench tools, and with only three different smokeless powders, so you can stockpile and be covered with whatever comes your way.

 
.410 BORE SHOT SHELL AMMO

Surprisingly, 3" .410 bore shot shells cost twice as much as the much larger and more common 12 gauge shotgun shells, being priced at about $8 per box of 25. For the purpose of home defense, one does not need to have an armory full of ammo, though. I would recommend at least four (4) boxes of 3" .410's and four (4) boxes of 2 ½" .410 shells at a minimum, all with #4 shot. Those who are smart would also have a simple reloading kit for .410 and some reloading components as well.

Remember that I wrote above that one advantage of the .410 is a lack of penetration? That can also be a disadvantage if you don’t know where to aim. Number 4 shot is definitely not going to penetrate body armor, and many intruders now wear such readily available equipment. One advantage of a shotgun that can be used to offset that factor, however, is the very pattern that makes precise aiming not so critical: shoot at the face. It is unprotected, and even a visor won’t help much. At longer ranges even a few pellets in the cheeks will discourage a determined opponent, ‘cause it hurts, and they will know you are as intent on hurting them as they are intent on hurting you. Turnabout is fair play! "Aim" with a shotgun means looking down the barrel and seeing the front sight...there usually isn’t a rear sight. The target is placed on top of the sight for the pellet pattern to strike correctly on bird sized game. On larger game, such as a feral dog, aim at the bottom of the body and the shot pattern should be in the chest area. If shooting at longer ranges, remember that small sized shot lacks mass and being circular has a poor ballistic coefficient, so it drops about 8 inches from line of sight at about 50 yards, so aim a little higher on the target.


Offline Cookiemann

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Re: 410 for Home Defense
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2006, 04:24:26 AM »
Hey Ridge, I went on that site.  WOW, what a lot to read and he really gets off on a lot of other stuff, too.  Thanks

cookiemann
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Offline shaner

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Re: 410 for Home Defense
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2007, 11:33:22 AM »
anyone remember back oh id say 15yrs ago maybe mossberg was  producing that 410 home defense  shotgun, and the article they put out  was really good all the tests they did or who ever it was  found a 3in 410 # 6 shot was the best way to go for in house defense, reason bein if yu let it go in the house the 410 would not penatrate thru walls as easily as  say a handgun round , and it was safer for  the other people in the house , just in case

Offline Cookiemann

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Re: 410 for Home Defense
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2007, 01:40:41 PM »
Shaner, they still carry that line of shotguns....Cruisers are pumps with 6 shot mags and pistol grips.  My brother-in-law just picked up a 20ga cruiser.  The also have it in 410 and 12.  The also carry what they call the HomeSecurity 410.  Has a pistol grip forend and a spreader choke.  Very versitile.  They geared that HS model for more than just IN THE HOUSE defense.  Were talking Katrina type protection.  Ferral cats and dogs intruders and food too.  Just what ever you might encounter when the civil authorities are gone and it really is a Survival situation.

cookie
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"AIM small...MISS small"

Offline shaner

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Re: 410 for Home Defense
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 11:14:48 AM »
yep that was the one i was thinkin about the home security model ,  yu might want to check i was told mossy stopped producin 410 model 500 all togather this year??

Offline Cookiemann

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Re: 410 for Home Defense
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 11:46:44 AM »
If that's true....I will have to add one of those to me list of "Guns I Need"...always thought those were cool.
NOT ON MY WATCH

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