Author Topic: Varget in the .45-70 (Read 1570 times)

Swampman · « **on:** January 02, 2007, 01:48:47 PM »

I ran across this ....

Hodgdon's Varget Is A Winner

"I had exceptionally good results with the two Remington bullets and Hodgdon's Varget powder. The combination in Starline brass with CCI large rifle primers was easily capable of 100 yard five shot groups under one inch. A charge of 50.0 grains of Varget with the 300 grain Remington JHP delivered 1,433 fps and .75 inch groups.

That's a good bit below the velocity of factory ammo with the same bullet (1,800 fps) but since it shot so well I didn't see any reason to increase charge weight. The 405 grain JSP and 40.0 grains gave 1,136 fps and .8 inch groups. This is also-about 100 fps below factory velocity."

I want to duplicate the Remington .405 grain loading. Varget works well in the other calibers I own (except the Hornet.) Have any of you used it in the .45-70?

Bob_VT · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2007, 02:21:24 PM »

These are not factory loadings but these are a few of my Varget notes....

405gr JFP 52 grians of Varget 1745FPS
405gr JFP 55 grains of Varget (compressed load) 1845 fps
300gr JHP 60 grains of Varget (Compressed load) 2022fps
405gr cast bullet 47Gr of Varget 1550 fps

In the end I always seemed to enjoy using RL7 and just stopped using Varget.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2007, 02:38:12 PM »

Have never used Varget, but Reloder7 has to be one of the best powders for the .45-70 that's ever been recommended from its popularity with the levergun fellas!

Tim

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

bajabill · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2007, 06:03:12 AM »

I started with varget in the 45-70 for 300gr bullets. I did not like it, was not getting complete burn

I moved on to RE7 and have not looked back.

dodd3 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2007, 10:53:51 AM »

i use adi 2208 which is varget it is very good powder when used with 500 grn pluss bullets it is not so good for bulllets under 450 grn, that is what i have found .
bernie

Dillohide · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2007, 10:56:58 AM »

I was going to try Varget, and still may, but blew out the center of the target at 100 yards with 50 grains RL7 and that 300 grain bullet around 1800 fps so stopped searching. Completly happy with that load.

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2007, 11:59:04 AM »

I don't want anywhere near that kind of velocity. I just want to duplicate Remington's 405 grain load. I hate to have a different can of powder for every rifle. Varget is fantastic in the .223, .308, and .30-30. That's why I was asking about it.

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2007, 03:30:11 PM »

I use Sierra 300 gr. HP/FN over Varget 60.0 gr.Groups very well........Rick

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2007, 06:18:51 PM »

I'm no expert, I plan on trying VARGET in my BC to try to take advantage of the long barrel and the slow burn. According to my reloading manual, 40gr of VARGET will get you pretty close to factory loads with a 405gr bullet.
Hope that helps.
I try to do it all with the least inventory of gunpowder possible.

>>>===> Dave

RickC. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2007, 06:37:36 PM »

My vote for this is IMR 4198. I didn't get the accuracy I wanted with Varget in my .45-70 Handi, Re 7 wasn't much better and was dirty. 3031 was very consistent, but I ended up with a lot of unburned powder and those big honkin' 3031 grains in the chamber (and dents in the cases). 4198 took care of that, was just as accurate and consistent in my Handi, both with Rem 405 JSP and 405 RNFP hard cast lead.

I still use 3031 in the Marlin with 300 gr Speers (had bad results on deer with the Rem 300 HP), the pressure must be just high enough that I get a more complete burn with those at 1780 fos.

Good luck, and don't overlook the old stick powders!

Rick

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2007, 09:11:12 PM »

You can't get any better results for 45-70 trap door loads then 25gr of Alliant 2400 behind that 400 or 405 gr bullet. This load has been around for more then 50 yrs. Use it with a 300gr cast for varmints and kids plinking in any 45-70 that is tight and safe to shoot including the original civil war era trap doors. You have to match the powder for the job. There is no one-fitzall out there. Been there done this for 50+ years. Yes and leave the "fillers" in your pocket for the next call of nature you might have. It's best to teach a kid to shoot and hunt, then reload.

10ga. · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:15:19 AM »

Rick,
What kind of handgun is being fired in your avatar?

RickC. · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:21:03 AM »

Quote from: 10ga. on January 04, 2007, 03:15:19 AM

Rick,
What kind of handgun is being fired in your avatar?

10Ga,

That's my wife shooting one of my Ruger Vaqueros, .44 Mag. Load was 210 gr RNFP over 33 gr FFFg Goex (and a beeswax biscuit). I couldn't get that picture again if my life depended on it!

Which brings up something else--if you -really- want to duplicate the old trapdoor load, consider some SPG lubed (or similar) 405 lead with 2F or Cartridge BP. It'll make your brass look like hell, but that's part of the fun. Clean up with Windex, nothin' to it.

Rick

Fred M · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:36:41 AM »

FWIW.
50gr of Varget with a 300gr bullet is a very inefficent load. In a 22" barrel it only burns 70.38% of the powder and in a 32" barrel 74.6%. This spells out a dirty barrel.

The load should produce 1874 in a 32" barrel but the reported velocity is only 1433ft? Why? As reported here before it could be the result of an over sized bore.

The pressure at 20368psi is also very low at 63.8%. Pmax is 31908psi

45/70fan · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:47:53 AM »

Go with R7 or H4198 and don't look back, these are among the best powders for the 45/70.
I love Varget in my 22-250 and 30-06 (with light bullets), but it doesn't have a fast enough burn rate in the 45/70.

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:09:38 PM »

Fred, that's fascinating! Where do you come up with this info?

>>>===> Dave

McLernon · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:34:55 PM »

I never had much success with Hodgden extreme powders................not very consisitant. I like their H335 in my Handi 223 though.

McLernon

FLNT4EVR · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:22:51 AM »

I,m currently loading 5 rifle cartridges, 223, 30-30,308,30-06,and 45-70. I us the same powder in all of them with good results and it keeps everything much simpler. The powder I'm using is IMR 3031. I use magnum primers and don't have any unburned powder issues.

Fred M · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2007, 04:32:45 AM »

Dave Weiss.
I obtained these values with Quick Load, they could be off a bit because I used the generic case volume, fired case volumes could change the output some but not by much. Also the OAL or rather how deep the bullet is seated would change the available combustion volume, hence pressure.

The make of bullet could also change the results depending how much of the bullet shank drags on the barrel (different velocity)

But the above assumption(SAAMI) is close enough to validate the powder behavior.

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:29:49 AM »

Thanks Fred, if you don't mind... What would the values be with 40gr of VARGET, 405gr Rem. SP, C.O.L. 2.54, 22" and/or 32" barrels?

Thanks, Dave

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:49:44 PM »

Dave Weiss.
Velocity 1527ft with a 32" Barrel powder burnt 73.57% COL 2.540"
" 1418 " " 22" " " " 77.52% " "
405gr Rem Sp .458 cal
Pmax 18978 psi
Powder filling ratio 77.7%.

Not a very efficient load but ok if accurate, and that is what counts.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2007, 01:09:25 PM »

Personally, I could care less what the bore looks like after the shot, what I care about is successive accurate shots!! I see posts all over of complaints of dirty bores after shooting, well unless they've shot black powder, they don't have a clue what a dirty bore looks like compared to a smokeless load!!

I shoot a lot of 5744 in my .45-120 BC, it's very accurate, but I've seen complaints here about it being dirty. Well, until they mentioned it, I never paid any attention to what the bore looked like, and it made no difference and still doesn't, still shoots dirty by their standards, but extremely accurate. As Fred said, I'll take dirty and accurate any day over a "clean" shooting powder that's mediocre in accuracy.

Tim

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:28:14 PM »

Do you think the unburnt powder increases the amount of recoil?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:30:41 PM »

If it does, it's negligible, the fouling in the bore is minimal.

Tim

dodd3 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:04:26 PM »

Quote from: Fred M on January 04, 2007, 09:36:41 AM

FWIW.
50gr of Varget with a 300gr bullet is a very inefficent load. In a 22" barrel it only burns 70.38% of the powder and in a 32" barrel 74.6%. This spells out a dirty barrel.

The load should produce 1874 in a 32" barrel but the reported velocity is only 1433ft? Why? As reported here before it could be the result of an over sized bore.

The pressure at 20368psi is also very low at 63.8%. Pmax is 31908psi

as i stated in my post it is a good powder if you use a 460 grn and up bullet all the powder burns and i get good velossity with out high pressure in the buff classicwith a 500grn bullet.
bernie

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2007, 04:23:41 PM »

Thanks Fred, sorry it took so long to respond, but I had to wwoorrkk today.
Seems like the more I learn, the less I understand. I assumed that the longer barrel would allow all of the powder to burn. I'm still interested in trying it, I'll post the results after I do it.
It'll need to warm up a little first, high today was -7

.

Thanks again, Dave

Author Topic: Varget in the .45-70 (Read 1570 times)

Swampman

Swampman

Swampman