.223 twists

[toyfj40]

a friend of mine recently got a  BullBbl .223  (sn NT30xxxx) but was not aware of the
twist-rate of  1:12"...  he was not getting respectable grouping (actually many KeyHoles)
with the heavier bullets...   soooo... when a  "NIB" Ultra was available at a gunshow
(sn HW21xxxx),  he expected to have the  1:9" twist...
the newer rifle did not group any better...  he measured the twist with a cleaning-rod
and carefully observing the rotation... both rifles are the same... 1:12"
He called  NEF and was told that they were still mfg  1:12"twist .223 barrels...
and did not record the  twist-rate shipped with the S/N...

Does this make any sense to anyone?
Is there another explanation?   something I'm missing... 

[quickdtoo]

They told us that all .223s would be 1:9" as of 2006, but they apparently changed their minds on it. But in reality, the 1:9" barrels that they have made don't shoot the longer, heavier bullets any better than the 1:12" twist do, in fact, some have said they shoot them worse! The 1:9" barrels do shoot the 40gr-55gr very well tho, just as the 1"12" twist does.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,77118.0.html

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,59653.msg358189.html#msg358189

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,63640.msg384798.html#msg384798

[burntmuch]

Alright I just got a 1-12 twist 223. what bullit should i start with? Sounds like I should start about 55 gr

[bigjeepman]

I would go along with the 50 to 55 gr bullets if I were you. I favor Nosler's and Vmax but there are many good bullets out there.

[TexasShooter]

Sounds more like the guy's you refer to quickdtop, that bought 2006 223's got the 1:12 twist rather than the 1:9. That is why they are not shooting the heavy bullets well. The 1:9 barrels should shoot up to 68gr bullets with extream accuracy.

All of the 2006 Ultras coming off of the line are not 1:9, a good number are 1:12 and it seems to be at random.

I can not get the factory to tell me why they are producing 1:12 223 barrels, when they said it would be 1:9

[northjdr]

Well I'm glad I'm not going nuts. I re-measured the twist on the 223 Ultra last night and it did come out to 1-12 even though it is a 2006. Maybe they found some extra barrels in the same carton part of the warehouse that contains all the 444 Marlin 1/38 twist barrels.

[PartsMan]

It does not matter because the 1 in 9 won't shoot heavy bullets.
Mine still likes 45g hp.

[cascadedad]

barr25-06, did you check yours or are you assuming it is 1:9?  I recently bought one and I have assumed it was 1:9, but I will be checking tonight.  This is all very interesting.

[northjdr]

You make a good point. Having a 1/9 twist doesn't mean that it will like heavier bullets better and the Handi's have shown a preference for the lighter ammo. However, I can tell you if you do have a 1/12 twist and are attempting to shoot 68grs you will be lucky to hit paper. The heavier bullets will not stabilize with a 1/12 twist and you will be hitting the paper(if they hit it at all) sideways.

[mookster79]

I haven't checked the twist on my .223 handi ,but it is a 2006.  I am shooting 50 gr vmax or nosler bullets for varmint.  It is deadly accurate in that 50 gr range with either bullet.  It lays the shots right on top of each other at 100 yds.  I have also had great luck with 55 gr fmj rounds shooting paper in the yard. I had to make minor adustments on my scope while I was shooting those rounds, but had the same results once zeroed with the new bulllet.

The heavier bullets are usually used for shooting the really far shots, If you are looking to get out real far you may want a little more caliber period.   

[TexasShooter]

A 1:9 will shoot the 50's and 55's well, but will handle up to 70gr longer bullets, where the 1:12 will either tear up the 70's or like you said northjdr fly all over or even hit the target flat sideways making key holes.

I prefer 1:7 barrels, but H&R said they were not interested in producing any. I think H&R are missing out on a good market. If they would make the Ultra barrels in 1:7, 1:9 and 1:12, I think they would expand the spare barrel sales.

I would like to have all 3 for both Target and Varmint hunting, it gives you a great latitude on range and accuracy.

[quickdtoo]

H&R NEF rifles with 1:9" twist DO NOT shoot heavier bullets well, it's a proven fact with its track record here repeatedly reported, time and time again. Only one person has had any reasonable accuracy out of 68gr loads just recently, NO ONE else has, they only shoot well with the same lighter 40-55gr bullets as the 1:12". It's a moot point that other firearms shoot the longer bullets over 60grs well, we're talking H&Rs and NEFs, not savage or whatever. Whether its bore dimension or shallow rifling at fault, the 1:9" H&R NEF 223 barrels don't shoot the heavier, longer bullets that would be expected to shoot good from the faster twist, well at all.

Tim

[bigjeepman]

I will start by saying I am no expert nor will I pretend to be ... so this is just my humble opinion.

When I buy a new caliber rifle, I have already picked the range of bullets I want to use in it. I do this to mostly fill the gaps in the bullet weights I am already shooting. Since we are talking about the .223 in this post, I will use that as my example. When I bought my first .223 rifle (a Savage 10FP), my intentions were to use bullets in the 40 to 55 grain range. I know as I start testing different weights, the rifle will tell me eventually what works best in it. For this rifle, the 55gr Vmax and the 55gr Nosler were outstanding. I tried 40's, 45's, and 50's but none of them came close to the 55's. When I bought my first Handi in .223 bb, my intentions were the same ... 40 to 55 gr bullets. My Handi likes 50gr Vmax and 50gr Noslers much better than the other bullet weights. Now when I bought my second Handi in .223, I expected close to the same results. It likes 45 and 50 gr bullets equally so I went with the 50 gr to help simplify buying bullets to reload.

My point is if I wanted to shoot longer, heavier bullets like 65gr, 68gr, or 70 gr bullets, I would buy a different caliber rifle. That range of bullets is covered by my .243 as it will shoot 70gr to 85 gr bullets well. I just think this method of reasoning will help feed the rifle buying frenzy we are all caught up in. I continue to buy rifles to fill in my gaps of bullets weights. Now, I want/need a rifle that will shoot 120 to 140 gr bullets well and so I am considering a 7mm-08.

Good shooting to all ...

[PartsMan]

No I have not checked.
I guess I will have to.
I kind of hope its 1 in 12.
I bought it for varments and coyotes.

[TexasShooter]

The best way I found to check twist on the smaller calibers is with a 1/8" dowel rod. The cleaning rods on the smaller calibers do not turn easily and make it hard to determine the twist.

How to use the 1/8" dowel rod and a 1" square cleaning patch. Put the patch centered on the barrel and place the dowel in the middle. Slowly start the dowel rod into the barrel about a half inch, then mark the dowel at the barrel, at 9" and at a foot up, also mark one side of the dowel, so you can watch it make one full turn. Slowly push the dowel into the barrel, a small amount at a time and you will see it twist with the grooves. When you reach the the 9" mark and the dowel has not made a complete turn, then go on to the 12" ans so on, you get the idea. Sorry i f I got to siplified.

[MSP Ret]

simple is good buddy, less to go wrong....<><....

[PartsMan]

I checked mine last night.
It is 1 in 9'.
serial # NW271xxx

P.S. I should mention that It did shoot 2 to 2.5 inch groups with cheap pmc 64g sort point.
That would be fine for what I would want.(not target shooting)
It just shoots much better with 45g hp reminton.