S&W PC 460 - my barrel assembly is off ala. Dan Wesson...

[cledford3]

I was cleaning my XVR this morning after an outing of about 40 rounds of the 200 grain Hornady stuff.  A total of 60 since the last cleaning. (yes, I put it up dirty for a week...)  The gun has around 300 rounds through it - all 460 200 grain Hornady.
 
Anyhow, while cleaning the gun this morning I noticed the comp was loose - and I mean LOOSE.  IT was already a couple of turns unscrewed - which isn't as bad as it seems as it is very finely threaded and took numerous turns to remove.  Right after I popped it off I gave a little tug on the shroud and it came off easier then the one on my new Dan Wesson 445 supermag!  OK, I have to admit that I would have been freaked out about all of this before the DW purchaser 2 weeks ago - but I was a little calmer having already taken the DW apart.  The main point is, I DID NOT TRY TO TAKE THIS GUN APART, it was already in that process on it's own.
 
Anyhow, the 460 barrel, just like the DW screwed right out of the frame.  The gun is currently in 3 pieces.  So I thought, "cool, let's call S&W and find out how much a new barrel/shroud costs."  Well, for "liability" reasons they refuse to sell the barrel/shroud without factory installation.  Additioanlly, the parts (just for the production 8 3/8s barrel) are over $400. 
 
Hmm, I'm wonder what is going on.  First, my  $1300 dollar gun, that is only supposed to be able to be disassembled by factory techs, started disassembling its self.  Then S&W claims that there is a "liability" issue with owners changing their barrels on their own although D&W has been offering it for what, 40 some years now?  Finally, the cost of parts alone are double what DW charges for the same stuff?  (8" 45 barrel/shroud vs. S&W 8 3/8")  What gives.
 
Anyone else lucky enough to have their X frame gun come apart on them?  Anyone know what to gap the cylinder at?  
 
-Calvin

[RollTide]

Although I do not own an X frame YET, as I understand it, the gap is supposed to be .003.  I also understand that the S&W X frame is NOT supposed to have an adjustable cylinder gap.  The only way I know that they can accomplish this is to make a lip on the barrel so that the barrel automatically stops when screwed into the frame.  If you can send pics, I would be greatly interested in seeing close ups of the barrel, comp, shroud and frame.  You can email pics to mgsdrs@yahoo.com if you can get them.

I would tighten everything up and then keep a close eye on it for the foreseeable future.  If it loosens up again, I would attribute it to the fact that the barrel nut is also a compensator and the pressure of gasses escaping through the slots is loosening the nut.  It is probably just a gun that escaped the factory without the nut being properly tightened inthe first place, but I would watch it close.

Roll Tide

[RollTide]

Calvin,
I would also be interested to know how well the compensator works.  Does it really help with recoil and muzzle rise?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Roll Tide

[cledford3]

I would say that the comp helps - but with the 10.5" barrel and a scope the gun sops up a lot of energy as it is.  I know that the shooters on the benches next to me do not appreciate it at all...



Pics of the 460 taken apart can be found here:

http://forums.sixgunner.com/S%26W_PC_460_-_my_barrel_assembly_is_off_ala%25_Dan_Wesson%25%25%25/m_75900/tm.htm

(go midway down the page to get to the links for the pics)

Some of them are blurry - I'm not sure why.  If you'd like to see something specific I can give it another try.  FWIW, except the reverse threads on the comp it is exactly like a DW - just bigger in most respects.

If you want a Smith that you treat like a DW I suggest the PC model.  The comp is external to the shroud and looks that if one were so inclined could be easily wrenched off.  As I understand it the production models (non-performance center) require a special tool that goes down the barrel to take the gun apart.

Also, I've called S&W and the refuse to sell the barrel assembly seperate - it is "factory installed only."

-Calvin

[RollTide]

Calvin,
Thanks for the info.  I looked at the pics.  I read when the X frame first came out that they consulted with Dan Wesson during the design process.  The barrel system, other than contributing to the great accuracy of the gun, also helps the gun withstand the great pressure exerted on the barrel by these powerful loads without resorting to the dog-leg frame of the Ruger Super Redhawk.  Dan Wesson got it right, and S&W got it right as well.  I am looking into purchaing a PC model as we speak.  I was very greatful for your post because it confirmed what I was hoping.

Does the barrel hit a stop when you screw it into the frame, or will it screw all the way down to touch the face of the cylinder?

I have wondered if what I read about this is true.

Thanks again for the pics and the info.

Roll Tide

[cledford3]

The barrel will screw all of the way down to the cylinder face.

-Calvin

[DWTim]

I looked at the pics in the Sixgunner forum. Wow, what an uncanny resemblance. Is that barrel tensioned on the Smith?

I must say, though, that I hear the most bizarre complaints from people with PC guns. This is only adding to my mental list. These things aren't out of the question, though. My brother has an older 629 with a pinned barrel. It extracted its pin and rotated the barrel on one occasion.

Also: There's a gent on Sixgunners that warns about self-loosening barrel nuts. Believe me, you can tighten a DW internal barrel nut to the point that it will never get loose.

[wiley]

Seems odd to me. The one time I jammed a barrel nut was because I was shooting a lot of heavy loads in a 357 at IHSMA silhouettes. Near as I could figure, the rifling had a torque reaction on the barrel and caused it to increase the loading at the barrel nut. Perhaps the S&W shoots loose due to this sort of torque reaction??

[David Carey]

I personally have never had a barrel nut come loose either, maybe S&W screwed up by making the comp screw on with left handed threads. Maybe the bullet twist and the direction the gases leave the end of the barrel it helps it loosen. ( I know its a stretch )

Dave

Seems odd to me. The one time I jammed a barrel nut was because I was shooting a lot of heavy loads in a 357 at IHSMA silhouettes. Near as I could figure, the rifling had a torque reaction on the barrel and caused it to increase the loading at the barrel nut. Perhaps the S&W shoots loose due to this sort of torque reaction??

[El Hombre]

FYI there is a recall on some of the PC 460s. From the S&W Website: (The pics didn't post here)

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=36817&sectionId=10506

Smith & Wesson’s Performance Center Model 460 Revolvers
 
Description of The Hazard:
 
 Smith & Wesson has received four (4) reports of barrel failures involving its Performance Center Model 460 revolvers.  These barrels were manufactured by an outside supplier. Our investigation has revealed that the quality of steel in some of these barrels did not meet the performance requirements for these firearms and may have contributed to failure of the barrel.

You should stop using the revolver and return it immediately to Smith & Wesson so that your barrel can be inspected and replaced, if necessary.
 
Description of The Product Involved:
 
 This recall applies to Performance Center Model 460 revolvers shipped by the Smith & Wesson Performance Center prior to September 18, 2006.  This recall does NOT apply to Smith & Wesson standard production Model 460 revolvers.  The affected revolvers can be identified by the following Serial Number Range:

EBD0001 - EBD0524

EBF0002 - EBF0251

LHZ0000 - LHZ0511

LLL0000 - LLL0702

LRR0001 - LRR0552

MMM0001 - MMM1809

XMC0001 - XMC0109

To determine if your firearm is part of this recall, please check your serial number which can be found on the yoke of your firearm as indicated below.  Each Performance Center Model 460 will have the words “Performance Center” engraved on the barrel as indicated below:

 
Remedy/Action to be Taken: 

When the revolver is returned to Smith & Wesson, we will inspect and test each barrel to verify that it meets specification.  If the barrel fails to meet specification, a new one will be provided and installed for you free of charge.   

We have already begun the corrective action process on Performance Center Model 460 revolvers.  To determine whether your revolver has been inspected, please do the following:

Keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction;
Open the cylinder and verify that the firearm is unloaded; and
Look for a "punch dot" in the yoke opening, just above the serial number, as shown below. 

If this indicator is present, your revolver has already been inspected and no further action is required.
 
Consumer Contact:
 
 Please contact Smith & Wesson directly at 1-800-331-0852 ext. 3800, or through our web site at www.smith-wesson.com to arrange for the return of your revolver.  All work will be done free of charge.

TO ARRANGE FOR THE INSPECTION OF YOUR REVOLVER AND THE REPLACEMENT OF YOUR BARREL, IF NECESSARY, CALL 1-800-331-0852 ext. 3800