Should Kids be Driving !

[S.S.]

I know this is off the "Outdoors" type topic, But Someone may be interested
If you have teen aged kids. A few weeks ago A 17 year old was killed in a single car accident
not far from where I live. The Boys family, or part of it, wanted the car left somewhere very obvious
for everyone to see and possibly help parents to persuage their kids not to act the way their son had behind the wheel of a car. There have been parents coming from other counties to where this car is sitting. I can not imagine the anguish these parents feel still having to see this car
but they want it to send a message to others and maybe make some sort of a difference in another teen. Speaking for myself, My brother was killed in a car accident in 1987 and that absolutely made a difference in my driving habits so maybe it may help someone. I am not going to post any pictures
unless someone wants them to show to their own kids so If you do, let me know.

Graybeard, If this is not OK please let me know.

[flintlock]

It scares me as well...I turned 16 in 1971...Luckily I grew up in the country and had driven John Deere tractor, combines, bulldozers, etc since I was 13....I believe all of us that grew up in that time remember friends that died in accidents, sometimes one car, sometimes more....

I have 3 daughters, 25, 21 and 15...So I'm going through it all again as my youngest received her drivers ed license 2 weeks ago....I just try to be patient with her and have her behind the wheel as much as possible...

As parents we have an obligation to help our children grow and mature so they can take care of themselves (my dad died when I was 20)....If 16 isn't "old enough"...When is??? By 18 they are off to college, practically on their own (still getting dad's money) but you know what I mean....Both of my older daughters have been fortunate and haven't had any problems....

Some of our younger generation will find themselves in the military at 18...Surely we don't want to wait until 18 for them to start driving....So I guess I'm saying, yes, they need to start at 16, as parents we just need to pray that everything goes well, and prepair them as best we can.....

[Sourdough]

Ironically, this has been going on since the Americian public started driving.  The age old story of do we let the kids drive, or do we make them wait till they are adults?  It never ends and it never will.  All we can do is to try and teach our kids the best we can.  Sooner or later we are going to have to let them drive, and thats when we learn if our teaching has been effective or not.

Right now the issue here is wheather or not to let kids drive snowmachines or 4-wheelers.  I know elementary kids (as well as middle school and high school) that drive a snowmachine to school everyday, till the snow melts.  Then they drive a 4-wheeler.  It all depends on how well we teach our kids to respect the tool they are using.  A car, truck, snowmachine, or 4-wheeler is nothing more than a tool.  Just like a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a hammer, or a tennis racket, it's our job to teach our kids to use them and to respect them.  My father taught me as did most of your fathers.  A serious problem arises when we as parents do not do that job, we let others do it for us.  There is something lost when others do it, there is not that personal touch.  I'll use my wife's nephew as an example.  His father taught him to fly, he is an accomplished pilot.  I have flowen with him several times, before he started driving.  But when it came to driving his Dad and his Mom did not have the time, so they sent him to driving school.  The kid has numerous tickets, has wrecked two vehicles, and does not see any problem with his driving.  Same thing with my brothe's son.  My brother sent his son through driving courses in the high school, then after the kid got a few tickets he sent him to a driving school.  A week after the last driving course his mother told him to go to the store one sunday morning and get some things.  Danial grabbed his mom's keys and ran outside jumping into her new Thunderbird.  His older sister had just parked her car behind the T-bird and refused to move, reminding Danial that he was not allowed to drive Mom's new car.  Danial got mad, but knowing she was right and that if a fuss was made his Dad would come out and make him stay home and send his sister.  Danial jumped into his Dad's truck, drove out and left.  As sister was removing her baby from the car she heard the crash.  Danial had pulled out of the drive and was speeding down a residential street.  They estimated he was doing over 60mph, when he rearended an elderly couple that had stopped to make a left hand turn.  The old folks spent some time in the hospital, and their car was totaled.  My brother's truck was totaled, but Danial walked away.  In my openion he now feels invenciable.  He still speeds, runs stop signs, and is a very agressive driver.  My own son has had his licsence for two years now.  He drives on ice and snow for seven months of the year.  So far he has gone into the ditch once. 

We do the best we can and hope for the best.   

[Brett]

Let's look at the flip side of the coin.  Should older folks be required to take a road test periodically after a certain age in order to retain their drivers licences.   I hear of just as many old folks getting involved in serious accidents as I do kids.  I'm sure you have all heard at least one story about grandma or grandpa who though their foot was on the break when in fact it was on the gas when they have plowed into a store front or run over someone in a crosswalk.  Just a week ago I witnessed an old timer back out of a parking space in front of our post office right into a car waiting to pull into the post office, and she was laying on her horn the whole time he was coming at her.  Face it as we get older our sight, hearing, reflexes and thinking all slow down, none of which is good for driving.    And why is it old folks seem to favor giant sedans? I couldn't begin to count the number of times I've seen a grey haired old man or woman peering threw the steering wheel spokes of a big old Lincoln or Cadillac.  How do they aim those things when they can't hardly see over the dashboard? 

[powderman]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Kids today don't have the common sense we all grew up with. They may be ahead physically  in size to what we were but aren't even close to the maturity folks my age had at their age. Many of todays 16 year olds have the maturity of the equivalant of a 12 year old in my day, I'm 59 years old. I've seen TOO many 16 and 17 year olds killed in STUPID wrecks. One wreck happened  the first day that daddy gave her a new car, had her license and turned 16 the week before, it cost the life of another girl as well. Stupid wreck, radio blasting, drove through a stop sign, hit broadside, both dead. Another 16 year old hit a tree at 3 AM on a country road in the fog. Hit so hard the car was cut in half. 2 more dead, one was 15. I'd like to see it law that they couldn't drive til at LEAST 18 years old. A guy at work bought his 16 year old girl a new car for her 16th birthday. Two wrecks and 3 tickets in just 2 months, he thinks it's funny. In the first case they drove right in front of a police car on a run. The girls family has built a monument  at the crash site to rub salt in the wound of the officer involved. POWDERMAN.  

[Sourdough]

It's no differant today than it was 40 years ago.  1966, my best friend Lewis Durham had just got his licsence, and a 1957 Chevy.  Lewis stopped at Shonies where I was working.  He offered my brother a ride home, but luckily Jimmy was flirting with one of the waitresses and was not ready to leave.  On the way back to Hendersonville, Lewis lost control of the car at over 100mph and went into oncoming traffic.  Somehow Jimmy Jones, riding in the back seat survived.  The other three people in Lewis's car plus the folks in the other car were killed on the scene.  I can go on and on remembering wrecks that took place back then, and how some people were saying that no one should drive till they were 21.  Well it did not happen then, and it won't happen now.  People back then said the kids were not as mature as they had been at that age.  The arguments are the same, the circumstances are the same, the kids are the same. 

I will relate one stupid thing I did.  My Grandmother had a new 1966 Chevy Impala Super Sport, gosh that was a sweet car.  She let me take it to school one morning.  I met a guy driving a Jaguar at a traffic light.  He started revving his engine, so I did also.  I realised he want to drag race.  So when the light changed we took off.  I laid rubber all the way through the intersection, then something told me I was doing something stupid and I backed off, let him go.  Then a semi truck pulled out of a parking lot in front of the Jag.  The Jag swerved and went under the trailer, taking off his windshield.  My first thoughts were he was killed, the trailer should have cut him off about mid chest.  Then I saw the Jag turn on a side street and disappear, appearently the driver had ducked down.  Never seen that car again.  Right there I learned my lesson, no more drag racing for this old boy.  Never did that again.   

At the age of 17 I did run whiskey for about 8 months, like a lot of Tennessee boys.  At the age of 18 they did not want us any more.  Would take a load from Nashville to St. Louis.  We were on strict schedules.  We had to call in twice during the run, and we better not be ahead of schedule.  Being ahead ment you were speeding and money got deducted from your pay for that.  We had to drive at the speed limit, or just below.  If we came upon an accident we stopped and played good sameritain.  Then kept a low profile.  I learned to be a very patient driver back then.

[Brett]

Hmm... interesting.  Seems nobody wants to address the question I posed in my earlier post.  Does it strike to close to home?  At 45 I don't consider myself to be an 'ol' timer' yet but I'm well past 'youngster' so I am in no means trying to poke fun at nor anger seniors. From what I see on the road, on the TV news and in the papers I think my question is valid.  Should older drivers have to take an annual or semi-annual road test after a certain age to be sure they are competent to drive?

As a side, has anyone heard of the 70 year old former NASCAR driver who is trying to qualify for a couple of races this coming season?  I truly wish him the best of luck and hope that he does well.   

[Sourdough]

Brett:  I'm 57, I turned in my CDL last year because I no longer want to work therefore I no longer have any use for it.  But I am approching the years when I also feel that seniors should be tested before they can renew their drivers licsence.  Everytime I am out driving around Fairbanks I see seniors that should not be driving.  Luckily the drivers in Fairbanks are for the most part defensive drivers and patient.  These old folks pull out, or back out, in front of people and don't look.  They drive 10 to 20 mph below the speed limit, creating a hazard for everyone else on the road. 

My wife says everyone should lose their drivering priviledges at the age of 65.  O won't go that far.  My Dad was a trucker, and he retired at the age of 65, still a better driver than most people on the road.  Dad continued to drive part-time till he reached 73.  At that point Dad said he did not want to drive big rigs anymore.  At the age of 78 Dad is still a good driver.  Alert, responsive, and aware of his surroundings.  Yet I see others younger than Dad that I feel should not be driving. 

Personally I am for a driving test for seniors at the age of 60. 

[Brett]

Obviously everyone ages a little differently.  Like your dad some folks are sharp as a tack and still have good reflexes well into their 70s or beyond, whereas others seem to start loosing it in their 50s so I don't agree with a blanket revocation of licences at a fixed age as your wife suggest but like you thing drivers need to get tested from age 60 on.

[Cowpox]

I fear your testing will do little to get us old boogers off the road. Most of the old bumpy drivers I know, who get tickets for driving like that, seem to do a good enough job driving with an evaluator in the car with them, to retain their license. The minute they get back to let the evaluator out of the car, they once again go back to trying to kill people. No, I have to disagree that using age and additional testing will address the real reason their driving ability has deteriorated. It's what is, or is not going on between their ears, that is the real problem. Most people between the ages of 10 to infinity drive just fine. We just have to draw a hard line that says any driver, reguardless of age, only gets a given number of moving violations before he uses his ticket up. The next part is harder. Some of the most dangeous drivers I have ever seen, have been diagnosed, and are under treatment for Alzheimer's or Dementia. The sad truth is, that most of the good souls who have Alzheimer's will be dead before you would start testing them. I would like to see a law that, on being diagnosed with either, you don't drive anymore. Another terrible condition that can strike any age, is Stroke. I feel all stoke victims should not be allowed to drive until his/her motor and mental faculties have been medically evaluated. It's a tough call, but this would go a lot farther getting dangerous drivers off the road, than addtional driving tests.

[Sourdough]

A couple of years ago I was visiting a friend down in Punta Gordo, Florida.  I went for a walk and saw an old Ferarri coming down the street.  This car was really moving for a residential street.  He blew by me and went down the street and then pulled into a driveway.  I kept walking that way.  It took me about ten minutes to reach the drive that the Ferarri had pulled in to.  As I walked by I saw an elderly man trying to get out of the car.  There were two old women making fun of him, as he got out of the sports car using two canes.  The women finally helped him stand up straight, then helped him into the house.  The following day I saw the same old man driving down town, and he was wheeling that old car around like a teenager.  Squeeling the tires at all stop signs and lights.   

[Will Bison]

I'm 61 and a Commercial Pilot. I find flying to be much less stressful than driving a car. I've been driving and flying since my late teens.

I just got my kid a car, he is 22. I allowed him to start driving when he was ten (all supervised and on private roads). He of course wanted a license at 16, I said NO, "When you are no longer a liability to me, you can go get the license". "But Dad I'm in High School and I have to drive". "Well gosh, how did you get to school for the past 11 years, you walked?".

When I was in High School, the vast majority of cars in the parking lot were school staff. Now I go by the High School and most of the cars are driven by students.

Just my opinion but I feel that we make it too easy for drivers of all ages to get the "Ticket". My gosh, just to get my Private Pilot Certificate I had to have 40 hours of flight time, take a physical, pass a written test with 100 questions and then pass a flight test with an FAA guy. Now I have to take a check ride every two years and must show that I am proficient in each type of aircraft. I don't fly Commercial these days but I still have to jump through the hoops to stay current.

I just renewed my drivers certificate and the nice lady said "read line 11" and in moments I was issued a certificate good till 2011. At the same time I renewed my Commercial aircraft ticket; I had to have a full physical, by the designated Flight Surgeon, not just the family Doc. I had to go up in the plane with a CFI and get signed off after a flight test.

What's wrong with this picture? Flying a light aircraft is much simpler than driving down a freeway.

Just some questions I have.

Bill

[Brett]

The last two posts make some good points.   It's interesting that insurance companies can require you to get a physical before they will issue you a life insurance policy but the DMV will hand you a drivers licence if you can read line 3.   Come to think of it I don't think I have ever heard of anyone getting involved in a 15 plain pile up due to an old timer changing flight lanes without signalling first like I have car pile ups either.

[rockbilly]

A very good friend's daughter turned him in as threat to the safety of other drivers, the daughter 1s almost 65, her father is 92.  I didn't jnow the daughter had turned him in when he called and asked if I would drive him to the DPS office to see about his drivers license, so I drove him down.  The oady at the DPS office told him thaat his had been turned in, and that he would have to surennder his license.  This was really a blow to him, but he ask, "what do I have to do to keep the license?"  She told him it would require a complete test, both written and road, she gave him a book and told him he had five days to return and take the test.  On the fifth day I took him back to the DPS office, after taking the written test he walked over to me and asked for the keys to his truck so he could take the road test.  He and the test officer were gone for quite a long while, when they returned my friend had a big smile as they prepared him a new license. His new license was restricted to "daylight" hours only, but the DPS trooper told me he scored a 96 on the written test, and did exceptionally well on the road test.

I can't say the same was true for my father, he was almost blind, my mother almost deaf, but they drove all over the place.  How they avoided an accident is beyond me, he couldn't see the traffic lights so she told him when to stop, and when to go. I am thankful that they never had an accident and killed anyone.  Knowing his condition, my brother and I would disable his car so he couldn't drive, he would call the dealer, they would send someone out to fix it.  We talked to the DPS office, and they would not take any action to pull his license, it was an up hill battle for many years.

I am nearing 70 myself, and know at some point this will be my faith.  It is not hard to understand why an individual is so opposed to having their license pulled, or their vehicle taken away.  We are an independaant nation, the vehicle is our freedom to go where we please, it is a means of getting to those places we need to be, doctor, grocery store, etc, so when an old person's license or vehicle is take, their freedom goes with it in most cases.  This is especially true in rural areas where there is no public transportation.

Another area of concern should be kids driving boats.  Most states have an age limit for kids to drive a vehicle, but there is often, no requirement for a boat.  I have seen kids as yound as 10 years old driving a bass boat with a 200HP motor on the back.  My old Skeeter with a 175HP motor will run about 68MPH, and to top it off it has no brakes. 

A kid running a boat by himself (while his father and mother were drinking beer on the bank) ran throiugh a group of swimmers in a roped off area killing one and injuring several others. Afterwards the kid said he did not know he hit anyone.  The kid had no training on handling a boat, and the insurance did not cover the damages.  His family lost almost everything, and will be paying for this stupid act for many years to come.

[powderman]

Why are kids allowed to drive to high school? We have buses for that. Instead of curtailing it, the schools build bigger parking lots. Most of the cars and trucks there are better than I can afford, most are gifts from mom  and dad. Few of the kids even buy their own insurance. When I was in school we were not allowed to drive to school, unless we had a note for a dr appt, or worked after school. Seems like theres a lot of unnecessary traffic on the roads anymore. The kids should be riding the bus, not driving to show off for their friends. Guess I'm just old fashioned. POWDERMAN. 

[Brett]

I'm with you cookieman. I did not even own my own car until I graduated from college.  I had use of either My mom's car or dad's truck if I needed to.  Not sure which was more popular with the girls, Mom's Valarie station wagon or dad's Dodge D100 shortbed with the 3 speed on the column.  (Dad's truck was actually pretty cool. w/ chrome wheels and a tape deck.) When I was home on break from college my brother let me use whatever project vehicle he had on hand.  One summer it was a 1970 VW beetle with a 73 Super Beetle engine. It had gas shocks in the rear to lift it so the big 60 series tires would fit in the fenders and it had no bumpers.  Another summer it was a rusty old Nova hatchback.  In high school I generally rode the bus, and I lived and worked on campus threw college and parking was practically non existent at my college so their was no point in spending money to keep a car on the road.