Huh?

[pfettig]

I went shooting on Friday (it was -6 but I really wanted to shoot).  I have a .223 ultra varmint.  I cleaned it real well first and used jb bore paste on it.  My first shot was a fouler so I didn't count it.  My next shot was about 6" high of where I was aiming.  My next shot was touching that shot.  The next shot was about 2" lower.  The next shot after that was touching that shot.  My next shot was about 1.5 inches lower and the shot after that was touching that shot.  After that it kept a group of about 2" - all about 6" lower than my first shot.  I've put about 80 rounds through the gun.  Does that mean it's time to start tinkering? 
Other stuff: The trigger was nice and crisp out of the box.  I was using front and rear rests (pretty solid).  I was using hand loads (not sure of all the components but there was 26.5 grains of powder and 50 grain spear soft point).  The scope was not loose.

[bigjeepman]

From my limited experiences with Handi's, my first question is about the front rest. Was it in the "exact" same position for each shot? What you just experienced is the same I did when after I started shooting my .223 bb Handi the first time ... even though I had read here at GBO to make sure the front rest was always in the same position. My rest was not in the same position as I wasn't paying enough attention to it.

My second question is about ... "I was using hand loads (not sure of all the components but there was 26.5 grains of powder and 50 grain spear soft point). Exactly what were you not sure about?

[pfettig]

The rest was always a couple of inches behind the sling screw thing (don't know what that thing is called).  Usually I shoot with my lead sled, so it's very consistant, but I have similar troubles with it then (not so much walking down I guess).  It's a little scarry to think you have to hold it in exactly the same place when you shoot it.  As far as not knowing the components, I guess I just don't know what kind of powder it was (my dad loads them for me).

[270Handiman]

It's been my experience that after polishing or cleaning the bore, it can take several shots to foul the bore and determine the actual point of impact.  And it usually works its way down the paper until it settles in.  This sounds like what you experienced from what I can tell, so I wouldn't worry about the first few shots you fired.  Just know that you need to fire several fouling shots before making any adjustments to your Point of Aim.  Now, the two inch groups you ended up getting after fouling the bore can probably be improved upon, and there is a lot of information around here about how to do it.  I would start by trying to find a factory load my gun liked, and move on from there.  As far as forend pressure, don't be alarmed by the guys telling you it has to be in the exact same spot.  That is true when you are trying to squeese the last bit of accuracy out of your gun, but it doesn't mean you won't be able to hit anything unless you hold in the exact same position each time.  I mean, you shot 2" groups and you should be able to improve that considerably by searching for a load your gun likes.  Just don't get discouraged.  Keep shooting and find what your gun likes and you'll be happy with it.

270

[pfettig]

Thanks 270.  If it wasn't disturbingly cold I would have been able to shoot a bunch more and really get to the bottom of things.  Maybe I'll buy a box of the winchester white box 45's that everyone seems to like.

[270Handiman]

Yea, good idea.  Don't clean the bore between now and then unless you got it wet or something the last time out.  I think you'll see your groups shrink considerably.  Now, don't get me wrong, cleaning and polishing the bore is a good thing.  You just have to know that it will take several shots to return it to the "fouled" condition each time.  Let us know how it goes with the new ammo.

270

[quickdtoo]

Back to basic Handi shooting technique 101!!

1. Trigger pull must be all the way to the rear, don't release it at the break, or the transfer bar will fall out of place and inconsistent pin strikes will occur.

2. Close the action with some force, when new this is extremely important, the latch and latch shelf need to mate and that doesn't happen real fast, takes some open and close cycles for the parts to get used to each other.

3. Place the front rest just ahead of the trigger guard under the hinge, if you push the guard right into the front rest, it will be in the same position each time. On my rest, the rear sling stud is also against the rear rest.

4. Even after polishing the bore, it may take well over 60-80 rounds to start shooting well, my Ultra started shooting real well after 80 rounds after polishing.

5. If you want to find out if the forend is affecting accuracy, remove the forend and shoot it, just slip it back on to reload and remove it again to shoot. If the forend needs work, it will shoot good without it.

6. Take your time shooting, most Handis don't shoot the best groups when the barrel is hot, specially without some forend work.

7. Always make sure the latch and latch shelf are dry, this is especially important if you clean at the range, it's real easy to get solvent on the latch since it's directly below the chamber. (Thanks cascadedad!!)

Hope this helps get ya out on your next range visit.

Tim

[fastbike]

In addition to everything else, are you sure you're not having parallax problems w/ the scope (and your position)?

The rest was always a couple of inches behind the sling screw thing (don't know what that thing is called).  Usually I shoot with my lead sled, so it's very consistant, but I have similar troubles with it then (not so much walking down I guess).  It's a little scarry to think you have to hold it in exactly the same place when you shoot it.  As far as not knowing the components, I guess I just don't know what kind of powder it was (my dad loads them for me).

[pfettig]

Thanks, Tim.  If I don't close the gun tight enough, will I know (won't it pop open?)   Also, I'm using a lead sled, so I don't really have the option of moving where the front rest is under the gun.  I hope that's not a big deal.  I'll try removing the forend next time I shoot.  Thanks again.
Fastbike - I'm not sure what a paralax problem is.  I'm shooting with a solidly mounted Banner if that helps.

[cascadedad]

pfettig,  Read through the faq's and then................ read through them again, and then................ well you get the picture.  MOST of your questions will be answered there and probably many you have never even thought about.  If you are like me, when you read through that information, it will probably bring up other questions in your mind.

One thing I would add to Tim's quick list in this thread.

1.5  Make sure the latch and latch shelf are CLEAN and DRY.

[quickdtoo]

The problem with a new gun is the latch engagement may not be the same each time unless you really slam it shut, the owner's manual mentions this. If you close it gently, it may still not lock up good, but may not pop open either.

Most Handis without forend bedding, won't shoot well with the front rest under the forend or on a bipod, so you'll have to improvise a closer front rest on the Lead sled to test with the forend off, you don't want the front rest under the barrel, but under the hinge. I have a Benchmaster that I won't use with my Handis because of this issue, even the heavy kickers.

Parallax shouldn't be a problem with a non-AO Banner at 100yds unless it's defective and the parallax setting in incorrect. You can see parallax by looking thru the scope without touching the rifle, and moving your eye position a little, the X-hair will appears to move on the target, the amount of movement is parallax error, if it doesn't move, it's parallax free at that range. Big game scopes are parallax free at 100 or 150yds, depending on the mfr.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Thanks cascadedad for the reminder on the latch and shelf being dry, I added that to the list!!

Tim

[pfettig]

thanks again everyone.  I have read the FAQ's countless times and have even gone so far as to print a lot of it off so I could read it at home.  I also read the all the posts and do a search before I ask questions.  I haven't seen this particular probem, though.  I'll keep everyone updated on the progress of the gun.