Hard Cast Performance

[JKF59]

I have a question that maybe the vast combined experience found here on GB Outdoors can answer. This may run a tad long so please bear with me.
  First I would like to say that I have cast and shot thousands of lead bullets. Mostly hard cast. I have killed many small animals with them in revolvers and autos in 357 Mag, 44 Mag and 45 ACP. I have never killed a deer with a hard cast. In my experience with the small animals, hard cast bullets do not kill anywhere near as quick as a hollow point. This is in animals up to coyotes, bobcat and feral dogs.
  I have killed about 10 or so deer with handguns but all with jacketed expanding bullets. They run anywhere from 40 to 75 yards when hit. Never have I had one fall where it was shot. They have all been from 30 to 50 yards. Some through the shoulder and some broadside. Some with revolvers and some with Contenders. I regularly kill squirrels with my pistols so accuracy is not a problem.
  I would like to shoot hard cast at deer but Im afraid that I might lose one. Where I hunt if a deer runs 100 yards or more it will most likely get to the water and be lost. In other words while I know that hard cast bullets will kill I just wonder how quickly.
  In an article written by Paco Kelly he says that hard cast bullets kill but they kill differently meaning more slowly. A friend of mine had a conversation with JD Jones and Mr. Jones said that hollow points out of revolvers kill quicker than cast. He recommended expanding bullets on deer. My personal experience, as limited as it is, agrees with this.
  My question is how do some hunters get the quick kills that they claim using hard cast bullets. I have a theory that is they are using cast bullets but that they are not hard cast. They are expanding. This may be without their knowledge or it just might be them misusing of the term hard cast when they really meant cast. Any thoughts ?

[Graybeard]

I've probably shot more cast bullets than jacketed in handguns but have killed far fewer deer with cast than jacketed as I just personally prefer JHP on deer. Why? Dunno that I have a real answer for that but it just "seems to me" that their effect is a wee bit more positive quicker and that's not really something I can quantify as the cast bullet kills have all fallen in sight of me and I honestly can't say that about ALL JHP kills but then there are a good deal more JPH kills than cast kills on deer behind me.

Now when the game changes from the relatively soft light weight deer to tougher and bigger game like hogs, bear, elk and such my preference changes also and there I trust cast more than JHPs or JSPs as it seems to me the effect changes as the size/weight/toughness changes.

If you want a similar effect from cast you need to be sure you have as wide a meplat as possible to provide the same effect as the JHP or JSP expanding gives. Still even with a wide meplat it seems to me that the internal tissue distruction path from a cast is smaller in diameter but generally longer (unless both exit) than with JSP and especially JHPs. For the most part I shoot for the lungs and I like what JHPs do to lungs better than what JSPs or cast do on deer. But as I said once I move to larger, heavier or tougher critters my preference changes to cast or a very hard JSP at least.

[jhalcott]

  J, hard cast bullets kill some what like an arrow. By bleeding out the animal. A some what softer alloy than linotype or even Lyman #2 SHOULD give you some expansion. Many shooters use straight wheel weight alloy with great success. Hard cast can be shot at higher velocity than soft USUALLY. I have shot wheel weight + 2 percent tin ,gas checked .30 caliber bullets to 2500 fps. A good lube is required for this and a good bore with out pitting. I shot some Lyman #2 alloy bullets into detergent bottles at 100 yards. The round nosed bullets went thru and hardly jiggled the jugs. When the bullets I had flatnosed ,hit them the jugs exploded! Same pot of alloy cast the same time,then a hand full were FNed. Same load,and very similar accuracy. I have killed a few deer with cast and jacketed bullets, but taking one with bullets I made and ammo I reloaded is a feeling that can't be believed.

[HEAD0001]

You really did not state what cartridge you are wanting to shoot?  I have shot alot of deer with pure WW out of a 45-70.  I cast a 405 grain bullet and push it about 1600 fps.  I always shoot for the front shoulder.  It is pretty much a bang flop thing.  I also cast a 240 WW for a 44 magnum at about 1300-1400 fps(1894 Marlin).  Again I shoot for the front shoulder.  I have had a few deer go a few feet, but not very far.  If you miss the front shoulder they can go 100 yards or so, but I have seen them go that far with a 300 Magnum.  I do not think hard cast is necessary.  I hope I do not get flamed for saying that, it is just my experience.  I have recovered a few bullets, and with WW and pure lead I do get some expansion, but how much expansion do you need when you are shooting a 45 or 50 caliber bullet???  Tom.

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont buy into the cast bullets kill like an arrow deal. Ive game with jacketed cast and arrows. Most times looking at wound channels using a good swc or lfn its tough to tell the differnce between a cast bullet and a jacketed. FOr the most part a jacketed hp wound cavity will be a litte wider but the cast bullet will penetrate better and the wound channel wil be longer. I have NEVER lost an animal to a cast bullet. Take the heart or lungs out of a deer and i dont care what you do it with that deer aint going much more then a 100 yards max. Ive had deer run a 100 yards after being hit by jacketed cast and arrows and even a 280. Ive also had them drop on the spot with all 4. For the most part bear and pigs dont run as far hit hard as a deer does. But do require a little more of a bullet to get through the fat heavy hides and bone. Ive seen jacketed bullets fail miserable on them and in the case of hogs ive seen arrows fail too. Deer for the most part dont require the extreem pentration a cast bullet gives. Theres only been one deer i killed with a handgun that i was thankfull i had cast bullets loaded and it was a wounded deer we were tracking that required a shot up the tail pipe running away. Bullet hit just about perfectly in the tail pipe and came out its chest. Needless to say it folded in mid stride. but that was kind of an overkill as i was carrying a 500 linebaugh with 450 lfns loaded to about 1200 fps. So to sum up my oppinion cast bullets arent allways neccisary but are never a poor choise. They will allways get the job done with no muss and fuss. I havent loaded a jacketed bullet in a hunting handgun for over 15 years other then to clean out a barrel. The same can be said about my lever guns.