Downing Large Game, leading to overnight or survival situation

[WaitsLong]

Having read many true-life hunting stories, a very common
occurance is taking big-game late in the day, so the hunter
must bivouac overnight.

My experience is only with deer and I only gutted them,
leaving skinning until I got the animal home. It seems to
take only about 20 minutes, but I did not time any case.

How much time would an elk or moose take?
Would you skin it?
Would you treat them differently if coastal versus interior,
early season versus lat season? Is temperature an issue?

I am trying to get a handle on what you have to do, so
I can understand how long it would take.

Do you drag the animal or part of it, or do you have to
pack the pieces out?
(By law, I know you cannot bone it.)

If you feel inclined to share an overnight or survival story,
please do.

[Daveinthebush]

How much time would an elk or moose take?

Probably depends on where you are.  I did two small moose in 1 1/2 hours one night up in Thompson Pass that were laying on the road.  In the bush, A friend and I working together did two, it probably took 1 1/2 - 2 hours and were much biger animals.

Would you skin it?

Yes, usually down the back peeling the skin towards the belly, peeling the quarters off, back strap, rolling and duplicationg the process.

Would you treat them differently if coastal versus interior,
early season versus late season? Is temperature an issue?

Temperature is an issue and varies much around the state.  You may be 20 limes from Barrow Alaska and in the high 80's.  Valdez on the ocean seldom gets more than 75 on a good day.  There are several methods of preserving the meat from citric acid, placing the meat in water and just hanging it.  Lots of variables.  On the Haul Road caribou hunts I have a large cooler and lots of ice.

Do you drag the animal or part of it, or do you have to
pack the pieces out?  (By law, I know you cannot bone it.)

Most Alaskans have an external pack frame and have to haul the meat out.  You can't drag a lot of Alaskan game, too big.  YOU CAN bone out meat, it depends on the area that you are hunting and the regulations in the area.

And yes, depending on where you are, you may have to spend the night. Especially goat and sheep hunting. Plan on being there for a bit and equip yourself accordingly.

Hope I answered your questions.  Alaska is a huge place and the climate and typography in the areas is very different.

[corbanzo]

I passed up on a bear this spring at 1240am becauase it was getting a little late and almost dark (haha)  and I had to work the next day at 10am.  If I didnt have to work.. I may have taken it.  I live on the coast where the weather isnt bad at all in late spring, and it stays pretty warm during the night.  I would have had to tie my flashlight to a tree to skin the thing..  All in all passing it up was a good idea.  If you are out hunting late, you need to be prepared for what might come, or not take the shot.

Always skin so the meat cool quicker.  Really there isnt much of a different between deer/moose/elk/caribou, moose are just bigger and take longer.  You need to take care of the hide if you want a mount... but I dont know anyone who mount moose on a regular basis.  Bear is the one you have to watch out for when doing the skinning. 

Everyone packs it out, especially in my area, the terrain is way too rough to drag.  Most places I bear hunt you cant get any type of vehicle into... well, maybe a helicopter, but you couldnt land it.   

[WaitsLong]

Good info. It reminds me of the diversity in season and geography.
(Spring hunts are not common in lower US.)

Gives me a time estimate for dressing moose and elk.

I am thinking that most late season hunters must be prepared for
an overnight stay. Otherwise, I would be reading many more survival
stories.

Thanks.

[Daveinthebush]

Someone I used to know used to say something like this:  "Mother Nature has her own stern code. Either follow it or die."

I am preparing for a moose hunt right now and am leaving after work tomorrow. Even though, this is a anowmachine ride back in and is only going to be a day, I am taking the following.

1. Three knifes, two skinning and one pocket.
2. Bow, 6 arrows, 2 releases
3. Game bags, paper towels, rubber gloves.
3. Fire making supplies, matches, lighter.
4. Stove, fuel, matches, food for 3 days if I strecth it.
5. Bivy bag, sleeping bag, water proof bag to carry it.
6. Game bags, plastic bags and appropriate tags for the area.
7. Head lamp.
8. Range finder and bino's.
9. Extra gloves and socks.
10. Pack w/water bottle.
11. Camera
12. 100" 3/8 rope, 2 25' pieces of 1/4"
13. Water
14. Extra oil and gas.
15. And for -20 temperatures......lots of clothes.

[Dand]

A few years ago I shot a smallish moose right at lightfall - 9:30 pm or so. By the time I walked back to camp, got my partner and gear, walked the boat down the slough to the site, dressed and loaded the moose and walked the boat back up to camp was about 4.5 hours.  No survival situation.  But I had a boat load of gear to use: Coleman lantern, blue tarps, head lamps, extra batteries, food, game bags, knives, sharpeners, axe, saws, ropes and twine as needed. I always carry a coleman lantern.  Since that moose, I've got me one of those really good  headlamps - they are the best - and pack a few extra batteries.

Another partner got a moose late in the evening of 05 season and I think he spent over 5 hours at it. He too could drag his boat close. But the moose was pretty good size and went down on a beach that was about 1 foot deep of sucking slimy muck - slowed the whole process down.  That and a bear prowling in the nearby brush kept them busy stoking a fire and looking over their shoulders.  He used a propane lamp mounted on a 10 pound tank.

This year I passed up a big moose right at nightfall.  Too far into the brush, too far from the boat - , and terrible walking conditions.  It was only later I found we were .25 miles from the boat,  we had been walking a long time and had wandered all over a big island. We also found a much nicer route to walk back to the boat but by then we'd spooked the moose. Oh well. My back is still thankful.

[scottnc]

Now I'm curious too.  Say you killed a moose or and elk, you are alone or maybe there is just two of you.  How do you organize packing out hundreds of pounds of dead animal X number of miles?  Multiple trips appear to be a must, spoilage might be a concern, scavengers would certainly be a concern.  What manner of pack allows one to carry his hunting supplies and still have room for 100 pounds of hide or meat?  How many trips for one animal the size of an elk or moose if you carried 100 pounds at a time?  I've seen pictures of quarted elk, hide on in I am assuming one man managable packs but don't know what a quarter with the hide on would weigh.

[corbanzo]

There can be a biiiiiig difference when it comes to moose.  If you shoot a young spike or a fork it could only be 400 lbs of bone and meat.  So with 100 lb loads... four trips.  It all depends on how far you want to walk.  Most people drive in pretty far when moose hunting, hunt from boats, etc.  I would take four trips with 100lbs each over a few miles, but I'm still young and strong.  If you hang the meat right you dont really have to worry about spoilage or scavengers, so you literally could have a full day easily if it came down to a big moose.  Moose in NW canada and alaska have been reported getting up to about 1300lbs, so you are going to be packing out a 1000 lbs if you get that trophy.  I would put my limit at about a mile for that much packing by myself.  Moose hunting it a good thing to do in pairs or groups, there is a lot of work with an animal that big.  With me and my buddies, due to cell phones now, you can make calls and they can be there in a couple of hours to help you chop and pack, depending on the area you are hunting of course.

[Daveinthebush]

Moving meat is best done with a boat, ATV or vehicel very close at hand.  But here, alas, that is only abot 15% of the time.  For that reason, the rigid packframe is alive and well in Alaska.

One of the most vital pieces of equipment for an Alaskan hunter is his pack.  A rigid frame with the best waist belt you can find, shoulder and cross straps.  My pack, is held on by six pins that are easily removeable and I have 2 extra straps that can attach to the pack.  That leaves the frame for transporting the meat.  One always has some sort of rope for attaching the meat.  From there you have two options: 1. Debone the meat and carry it in game bags. Or 2. Carry out whole quarters.  On smallish animals a quarter is not too hard.  I shot a moose up on the Yukon and I could not carry the quarter by myself.  In that case you make it into eights. Either way, you are in for an experience that most health clubs can not provide.

Spoilage is a major concern.  Many people carry citric acid to spray on the meat in a watered down form to retart flies.  Game bags are a must to keep dirt and debris off of the meat.  Cooling can be done by hanging if you can and the bears allow you to do so.  You can also place the meat sections into plastic bags, squeeze the air out and submirse the bags into a stream or lake.  Which is usually plenty enough even in July up here.

I have carried a black bear, smallish 5'4" female hide and head, four quarters and back straps out 1/4 mile to the road.  If I had fallen I probably would have made a great turtle.  But slow going, watching steps, I made it in one trip.
It is not easy. Hides on trophys are probably the toughest.  I do not have an idea what a mature 10' brown bear hide might weigh, but I know that I would not be able to carry it.

The whole issue aside, we very carefully select hunting partners up here too.  Hunting is an obsession.  My partner had a goat tag this fall and I went along 4-5 times just to assist if he scored.  If I harvested an animal I could call 4-5 different people and they would be there to help.  One of the reasons I love Alaska so much is because of the people.  I have no house key, the key to the truck, snow machine, ATV  and boat are all in the ignition. 

I did not mean to write a book, but I am suppose to be archery hunting for moose and the truck had problems handling the -26 degree temperatures heading up the road last night and the heater was not working...... so I am arm chair hunting this weekend.

[scottnc]

Thanks! that was the kind of info I was hoping for.  Hope I can experience it first hand someday.

Wish I'd made a move to relocate to Alaska years ago.  As I've gotten older the desire burns bright but the nagging suspicion is that I have waited too long to act.

[Daveinthebush]

Scottnc: Never too old.  I will be 56 this spring.  Conditioning is important though.  I exercise every other day. Take Sportsmans Edge vitimins and gloucosimine daily.  There are still hunts that you should be able to do.  Just tell your outfitter what your capabilities are and be honest.  They deal with it every year.

[scottnc]

I got to thinking after my last post about some of the hunts I have read about this past year.  One story in, as I recall American Hunter magazine these two guy's, one a muzzeloader hunter and the other a bow hunter canoed (with an outboard) up an Alaskan river untold miles into abject wilderness to hunt moose.  Snow, cold, wet, hardship of every description these guy's still managed to kill TWO moose and pack them out in a canoe.  I now think they may have stretched the truth a bit or their canoe was functioning in submarine mode!

I'll be 53 this spring.  My wife has given me her blessing to take a few months and go find us a place or get it out of my system.  I have two more years on my commitment job-wise then it will be decision time.  I chickened out a year ago when I talked her into taking six months off and traveling in a dually with a truck camper to Alaska and seeing if we thought we could hack it there.  At the time we could afford the truck and camper or the trip...but not both.

[Del]

Scottnc or anyone else who "thinks" they are to old to make it up to Alaska......
My dad turned 66 during this fall hunting season, he still hunts, hikes, and packs meat - granted I pack the "heavier" loads now. ;-)
A friend of mine and his 70+ year old dad still go Dall Sheep hunting last time I talked to him!

If you've always wanted to come to Alaska, "Just Do It"!!  Come up here get w/a hunting partner, get out in the wilderness, experience the vastness & solitude - it's still amazes me, and I've lived here most of my life!  When you do get out there, pace yourselves, split the loads into managable weights, take lots of short "breather" breaks to catch your wind, look around and take it all in - it's not a race, take your time and "smell the roses"!!

I've met many many people who came to Alaska to visit friends or for a short vacation, fell in love w/the place, and have never left!!
Hope to see you......
Del

[Sourdough]

Several years ago I shot a young Moose just at dark.  Problem arose when his partner(a big bull) decided I needed to be done away with and charged me.  I ended up shooting him also.  Now I got two Moose on the ground and am alone, just got dark, and a known Grizzly in the area.  Talk about someone gutting two Moose fast,  I gutted those moose by feel (no light) in two hours.  I kept my rifle in reach the whole time.  I then propped their ribs open and went for help.  Luckily, the grizz did not find them before we got back the next day.  Today I usually hunt with the use of a track rig.  No more walking through the woods for me.  And when I shoot it I take it back to camp whole.  Tomorrow we are leaving to hunt moose on snow machine.  There will be three of us and we will all be togeather all the time.  When we shoot something we will be working on it togeather.  It should take about three hours to skin, cut-up, bag, and load into sleds.  Have thought about dragging them back to the cabin whole and hanging from the meat poles to skin and dress out.  Depends on how close to the cabin we shoot them.

[WaitsLong]

Sourdough,
I have read that using an airplane, to hunt, is definitely forbidden.

Is it legal to use (other) motor vehicles in most game areas of Alaska?
Do you have to park it first, and then hunt the general area;
or can you actually be on the vehicle, spot game, and shoot?

Using a vehicle in any way could make all the difference for old guys;
thus there is hope.

BTW, is use of two-way radios permitted during the actual hunting process.

I am certainly not passing judgement on regulations or hunting methods.

[Daveinthebush]

I have read that using an airplane, to hunt, is definitely forbidden.

It all depends on what animal you are hunting and in which area of the state.  In some places, sameday airborne hunting of game animals is allowed.  In other areas, you may not use an airplane at all.

Is it legal to use (other) motor vehicles in most game areas of Alaska?

Many people use ATV's, snow machines, boats and othe methods to harvest game. And again, it all depends on the area you are in

can you actually be on the vehicle, spot game, and shoot?

NO, you must have the boat stopped, have the motor off...... better to be on firm ground.

BTW, is use of two-way radios permitted during the actual hunting process.

They may not be used to direct hunters to take game.  They can be used in emergencies and for general communications.

The diversity of the state is only exceeded by the diversity of the hunting regulations.  Reading the regulations is very important and if you ever do decide to come up, PLEASE ask questions.  There are some very common regulations that are broken by non-residents every year such as: Failure to validate tags.  Failure to remove all meat before antlers.  Failure to remove all eatible meat. And others.....

[Dand]

Yeah Dave is right on the regulations - and reading them can be challenging. So take your time and ask questions.

One more item:  In some game units a successful hunter is prohibited from boning out the meat.  The meat must stay on the bone.  On a big moose that could mean cutting the leg into 2 parts leaving the bone in each.  This has caused quite a bit of debate but it has helped enforce the regulations.

Another item too:  In many areas you may not remove the antlers from the kill site until all the meat is removed first.  This came about when too many trophy hunters took out the head, then claimed a bear messed up the meat.

One thing I like to do with caribou, is to get all of it away from the kill site/ gut pile as quick as possible.  So I will make short trips, say 100-200 yards to a staging spot with all the meat.  Then start packing it all the way to my boat.  More often I keep leap-frogging all the meat closer to the boat.  Short walks and many breather walks back.  I usually don't even strap it to the pack, just should the game bags.  And I still have my Camp Trails frame pack I bought in 1977 - its a good rugged frame.

[Sourdough]

Longswait:  Like Dave said it depends on the area you are hunting.  Snow machines cannot be used to persue, chase, herd,  or harrasse game.  Except in game unit 20-A, wolves can be chased and shot from a snow machine, but the snow machine must be stopped and the engine shut off before the shot is made.  With a boat, the engine must be shut off and the forward motion from the engine halted before the shot can be made.  There is an exception there also for Caribou along the porcupine river.  So like Dand said get a copy of the regs and go over them well.

 As for Old Man hunting?  The best I have done is to float a river with a raft.  Easy days, like sitting in a recliner floating.  You can float right up on animals, and get some good shots.  Then it's easy to load them onto the rafts and float on down the river.  I've done that for three years now, my partner and I have even convinced our wives to join us next year. The only draw back is that you usually have to get flowen in or out, or both.  There is a book out by a guy named Bartlett titled Float Hunting Alaska's Rivers.  It is very informative.  I drop my neighbor and his daughtor off on the upper Chena River each year on opening day.  He uses a couple of canoes and drifts down to the flood control project near our homes.  In four years they have brought home six Moose.  They take a tent and enough supplies so that when they kill something they can spend the night.  It's a 14 hour float, but when they kill something they stop for the night.  So far they have gotten a Moose first night every trip.  One trip I herd their shots, I was sitting at the drop off talking with some friends, and they had only been gone about 30 minutes.  I drove to a spot down river and waited.  A passing group of floaters told me they were just around the bend up river so I walked up there.  We loaded the meat into the canoes and took it to my truck.  I brought the meat and the second canoe home, and left them to continue to float.     

[Les Staley]

My son and I both killed Dall rams about 6:30 pm.. after an hour of picture takeing and the guide skinning my son's ram, and de-boneing it, field dressing mine, it was almost dark.. we knew we couldn't climb down off the mountain that evening.. so we made it to the closest timber, gathered up enough dead wood for an all night fire.. and managed to get 40 winks around the fire.. I had a MT50 parka, and blue jeans.. Chad and the guide both had fleece jackets and no rain gear.. LUCKY for us no rain.. temps in the low to mid 40s... Sept 10--06..   I'm 59... I made it..   Les

[Sourdough]

A few years ago my partner and I shot two Caribou right at dark.  While we were getting ready to field dress them we spotted a Grizzly coming our way.  Question now is what are we going to do, it will be dark before the bear gets to us. 

I had an idea, my teenage son had used my Johnny Stewart tape caller the week before at a tailgate party.  He had left a tape of Santana in the case with my calling tapes.  I put in the Santana tape and turned up the volume.  We worked to Black Magic Woman for the next two hours, never saw the bear.