Author Topic: Hawken loads, questions added  (Read 1168 times)

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Offline reward

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Hawken loads, questions added
« on: February 16, 2007, 12:37:52 PM »
Hey guys, I traded for a 45 cal t/c hawken, 1-48 twist, just looking for advice on a good deer hunting load. I have shot inlines for a number of years so I am familar with working up a good load, just looking for some suggestions. Also, some tips on cleaning and working up the load. I am not against shooting roundballs if I can get 100 yard accuracy, thanks in advance!

Offline lonewolf5348

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Re: Hawken loads
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2007, 12:58:33 PM »
I seem to favor goex 3F 80 to 85 grains of powder,hornady 440 round ball using blue and white stipe pillow patch material with beeswax and lard 60/40 mix.
I find goex 3F to be the best powder in my t/c rifles from 45 cal. to 54 cal.,I have some 445 balls would like to try for this spring shooting.

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Re: Hawken loads
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2007, 04:17:38 PM »
I not looking to be able to shoot as far as my inline but will this load have enough umph to kill a deer out to 100 yards?

Offline Wynn

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Re: Hawken loads
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2007, 05:39:37 PM »
It has been doing it quite well for 2 or 3 hundred years longer than any inline
American by birth; Southern by the Grace of God

Offline sharps4590

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Re: Hawken loads
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2007, 02:39:41 AM »
70-80 grs. of Fffg, .440 ball and whatever patch thickness is needed to take up the windage.  Usually .10-.20 cotton or linen.  Never synthetic materials. 

Personally I believe 75 yards to be max range for a 45 on deer sized game but that's my opinion and mostly due to not so young eyes.  There is no doubt it will kill deer at 100 yards.  As has been stated, it's been doing it effectively for a few hundred years so it has lots of experience.  Never, never, never, never underestimate the killing power of the lowly lead round ball.  If it has a bad reputation it only comes from those ignorant of it's use.

Vic
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Offline Snowshoe

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Re: Hawken loads
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2007, 04:58:55 AM »
I used a .45 when I first started muzzleloader hunting, and I kept my shots to 75 yards. The round ball did a good job, but it is only 128g and must be put where it is needed. If you want to shoot deer at 100 yards, I would practice with a maxi bullet of some kind. I found 3f worked best and in the 60g range, for both balls and maxi's. I would start at 50g of 3f and work my way up until you get the best accuracy. As far as cleaning, I use hot water and a little dish soap, and just put the end of the barrel in a pail of the hot soapy water and run a patched jag up and down the bore pumping the water through it. Then dry and lube it up. I always check my rifle daily for a couple of days. I have found Balistol is a good preservitive and works good as a cleaner too.
Snowshoe

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Re: Hawken loads
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2007, 06:56:01 AM »
Okay, sounds like some real good info to get me started, couple more questions. Are you folks getting your supplies locally or thru the mail? Cabelas is about an hour drive from here. Also, I have seen a few posts about baristol, where do you get that? With my inline I found the best performance out of a clean, dry barrel, is that the same with traditional? I am not experienced with using prelubed patches or conicals, I assume the lube doesn't affect the performance of blackpowder? Also, I assume not pertoleum based cleaners for the barrel. Thanks!

Offline sharps4590

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Re: Hawken loads, questions added
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2007, 10:34:54 AM »
reward.....we're talkin' traditional so I'm gonna talk......traditional.  You're correct, no petroleum products for lube.  I've never used Ballistol but have never heard anything bad about it.  I use "traditional" stuff.  My lube is beeswax and beef, mutton or deer tallow or non petroleum oil that was available in the late 1700's.  Olive oil, castor oil and I've read of some using sweet oil.  The ratio is usually 50/50, beeswax to whatever.  It works as good or better than most stuff you'll pay more money for.  Lots of folks use and like Wonderlube/Bore Butter.  I used it for quite a few years and found it satisfactory.   Biggest reason I switched was just to make a change......you know, livin' life on the edge an' all.  Swithcin' lubes is a pretty big deal... Wonderlube can be bought at most gun shops I know of.  Lube does effect the load in a rifle.  Some lubes to a greater extent than others.  If you're plinking or shooting a match where your shots come fairly quick good ol' spit is hard to beat.  A liquid lube is good for matches and plinking but I prefer grease type lubes for hunting.  I have never used pre-lubed patches so can't speak as to them.  I don't see why they wouldn't be just as good given that you find the right thickness.  The only conicals I shoot are fired from my Shiloh Sharps or my double rifles.  Don't see any need for them in a muzzleloader.  They aren't AS traditional as a PRB, don't kill deer any quicker and I doubt Boone ever used them.

I've used boiling water to clean my rifles for 30 years.  That too has been working quite well for a few centuries.

Clean and dry is good for a barrel.  However, some rifles like to have a fouling shot.  Some like to be wiped between each round and some don't.  That often depends on how heavy a charge you're shooting.  The volume of the powder charge often makes a difference as to how quick the barrel fouls.  Heavier charges foul more.....wow, wasn't that a bolt of brilliance on my part....hehe.

Once you gather the basics and begin shooting the rifle you'll figure it out.  Given your rifle experience you should have it shooting quite well rather quickely.  If the rifle hasn't been fired much you should see a difference in how "slick" the barrel is after a couple hundred rounds.  It also won't foul as much or as quickly.  Don't get in a hurry.  Let the rifle tell you what it wants.  As another poster said start with 40-50 grs. and work up from there.  Get used to the rifle and see what it likes.  Traditional ain't about "hurry up!", it's about knowledge, pleasure, satisfaction and a slower pace.   A man needs to take time to smell the sulphur, ya know!

I'd recommend CCI or RWS caps.

My match/plinking/reenacting load for my 45 is 40 grs. Fffg Scheutzen and my hunting load is 70 grs. of the same powder.  Nuthin' but black for me.  The fake stuff is just that, fake.  Often times not as accurate and always harder to ignite and it will still rust your bore if not cleaned.  However.......it's also easier to lay your hands on than the real thing.  I'd still recommend you find the real stuff. There is a decided difference.

Some stuff I can find locally.  A lot of it comes from Traders Row at events and I order my powder by the case.  Usually from Coonies in Hobbs, New Mexico but the last case came from Upper Missouri Traders in Crofton, Nebraska.  I don't shoot much caplock these days but when I did I bought my caps in bulk also.  We always have some kind of scrap cotton material laying around that is of suitable thickness for my patching.  I cast my own balls and have for as long as I've been shooting a muzzleloader.  Several years ago I picked up 500+ lbs. of lead for 20 cents a lb.  I believe I still have a life time supply.

Good luck and keep us informed as to your progress.......inquiring minds want to know!

Vic
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There is no right way to do a wrong thing

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Re: Hawken loads, questions added
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2007, 02:51:17 PM »
Thanks Vic, that was a heck of alot of info. I love shooting so spending some time working up the load will be half the fun. One last question, do conical bullets use patches or just lube. I'll keep in touch once the weather shapes up and I get to shoot!

Offline sharps4590

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Re: Hawken loads, questions added
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2007, 12:19:51 AM »
The only conical I'm aware of that requires a patch uses the paper patch and is smooth sided.  To my knowledge they were only used in muzzleloaders incorporating a false muzzle.  The false muzzle was the forward two or threer inches cut off the barrel, pinned to match the barrel and milled for either a cross patch or a three piece patch.  None of the grooved conicals use a patch, merely lube in the grooves.  Much like BPC bullets.

Good luck!

Vic
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There is no right way to do a wrong thing

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Re: Hawken loads, questions added
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2007, 01:55:18 AM »
Thnaks again Vic! Been up int 40s here so maybe I'll get to shoot this weekend.

Offline wgr

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Re: Hawken loads, questions added
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2007, 04:10:58 AM »
just for the info.  there rare alot of paper patched bullets shot out of muzzleloaders  with out false muzzles  i shot them all the time 50cal smooth bullet  400 grain paper patched 90grains  2f goex also a grooved bullet can be patched .
never to much gun