Author Topic: Accuracy testing II  (Read 918 times)

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Offline coop2564

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Accuracy testing II
« on: March 03, 2007, 03:37:22 AM »
I have a Taurus 416 raging bull 41 mag 6.5" with red dot.  I notice a big differents in POI on how I rest the gun.  I get great groups as long as I do everything the same but if I change anything just a little POI changes at longer distances. My question is where and how do you rest your revolver?  I have always read that you should not rest using the barrel however most pictures I see have the barrel on the sandbag just in front of the frame. And do you allow your hands to touch the bench to steady you more or keep them off the bench.  I'm using a preditor sighting system putting the frame just in front of the trigger guard on the front rest and lightly letting my hands touch the back to steady myself better and get great groups however when I shoot with one point of rest to simulate hunting my POI changes several inches at 75yds and my group opens up.  I've currently sighted in for one point rest on frame in front of trigger guard to simulate using bi-pod which is how I will be hunting for the most part. If I rest on barrel where frame and barrel meet it changes POI about 3'' higher at 75yd although at 25 its hardly noticable. Using a 2 point rest with my hands and frame I can shoot 4 and 5" 6 shot groups at 100yds but using one point keeping my hands off bench I/m about 8'' at 100yd.   Using just my hands as a rest with no contact on frame I get about 8'' group but again POI changes several inches.  Thanks for any info.
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Offline **oneshot**

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2007, 11:05:35 PM »
I'm new to revolvers for the most part, having only seriously shot an encore 308 prior to my 41.  I do know this though:  When a handgun is fired the barrel will push backwards and flip up and try to roll the grip in your hand.  Your hand is the pivot point of the barrel.  Any change in that cycle will change POI to some degree.  That is why comsistant grip pressure and a consistant grip itself is so important to accurate handgun shooting.  Once you introduce a rest you have changed things a bit and POI will change slightly. 
When I tested loads for my Encore off the bench and sandbags I tried everything I could to set the gun in the same position on the bags for every shot.  This included body position, grip, and what part of the gun was touching the bags.  It was the only way to get "fair" results between the loads I was trying.

Hope that helps you
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2007, 01:49:44 AM »
coop:  (1) do not rest on the barrel.  It changes a lot of things.  (2) Maintain a consistent grip and trigger pull and you will hit consistently.  Whenever you change anything, grip, support, trigger pull, etc., it will change where you hit.  If your supports pattern changes you will hit differently as the recoil will move the barrel before the bullet has even travelled downrange.  We found that out in silhouette shooting - if you change how you rest the handgun your poi will change and the further the distance the greater the change. 

Your hands should either be free of contact with supports (as in the field) or fully supported.  Your revolver should be rested on the frame forward of the cylinder.  Your barrel should be free of contact with your rest.  It is good that you are practicing simulated shooting but remember that when you are in the field you will not have the sturdy support of the bench to assist you  - all you're gonna have is a couple of wobbly sticks.  You might be better off practicing with your shooting sticks to see what distance you can actually hit accurately at and go from there.  If you can't plant them accurately at 75 m, back down to 50.  If your poi and groups change so much at 75m from 50m, possibly you should consider 50m as the farthest distance. 

When shooting 'free-hand' with a 2 handed hold your groups you might hit a bit higher or your groups may open up somewhat because you are using any supports but hey, 8" at 100 yds with just a 2 handed hold isn't bad but if you are going into the field with that piece you may wish to practice more at the standing unsupported position to hit more consistently.

The difference for me is between 50 and 200m.  I can knock down the 200 yd metallic silhouette (Ram) all day long (from a rest), but unless I have a perfectly clear sight picture, the furthest I will shoot with a revolver (open sights) is 50-60m.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2007, 02:28:27 AM »
coop2564, I get the best results by supporting the gun on the yoke of the gun. Right in front of the cylinder where the trigger guard is.  I never let the barrel touch the rest. Consistency is the key.  ;D
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Offline coop2564

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2007, 04:53:30 AM »
Thanks for the reply's.  Went out looking for some hog sign yesterday evening carried my bi-pod got 2 rabbits with two shots one at 15yds and 32yds.  So had fried rabbit and gravy last night forgot how good it was its been about 10 yrs since I have ate rabbit.  Found some hog sign gonna give them a try today. I'm really enjoying the gun.  ;D
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Omega Thumbhole .50_NEF Huntsman .50
Knight KP1 .243_Custom Rem 700 .308_Browning Safari Bar .300 WSM, Ruger No.1 30-06
Taurus .41 rem mag Raging Bull_S&W M&P 40C_Browning BuckMark .22_Savage 93R .17HMR

Offline S.B.

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2007, 01:58:44 AM »
I suppose for optimum testing,  a Ransom machine rest would be the way to go, if you can afford one?
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2007, 03:56:32 AM »
Machine rests like the Ransom don't often do well with high-recoiling revolvers.  Silhouette shooters discovered that decades ago, and good shooters got consistently better results shooting off sandbags.  For final sight in I prefer to support the revolver the way I will use it in the field.  If I will be shooting off a rest, like sticks, I'll support the frame at the yoke.  If I'll be shooting offhand, I'll sight in with only my wrists on the bags.  Sure the groups are larger than when the frame is supported - but since consistent support is the key to revolver accuracy and POI why handcap yourself on purpose?

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Offline S.B.

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2007, 05:08:25 AM »
Oh, I thought the question was about testing loads?
Here's a ling to Jeff Quinns take on these:  http://www.gunblast.com/Ransom-Rest.htm
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 03:45:19 PM »
Oh, I thought he asked for any info about POI changes:

Quote
Using just my hands as a rest with no contact on frame I get about 8'' group but again POI changes several inches.  Thanks for any info.

Thanks for being the thread police...    ;)


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Offline S.B.

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Re: Accuracy testing II
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2007, 04:39:10 PM »
I guess it's my turn in the barrel, today?
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