Rant on military wast of money

[koginam]

A rant about army wast of money
http://thegunsmiths.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=338

[hardertr]

yeah, that guy obviously has no clue as the the future mission of the military.

The new VMADS (vehicle mounted active denial system) will come in very handy in, say....situations where the military is haphazardly placed in the midst of an ongoing civil war.  It is rediculous to think we can afford to have the "kill them all, let God sort them out" mentallity.  That makes us no better than "them".

VMADS will help the military completely neutralize an area, and give us time to figure out what is really going on.  Who needs tear gas....when you have lasers?

[koginam]

Having been in combat I have no problem with the kill them all policy, its what makes wars end sooner then later. If I'm alive at the end of the day I aint like them because their dead.
You can have all the nonlethal weapons in the world but if won't stop a committed enemy only fear or death will do that.

[Keith L]

Having been in combat I have no problem with the kill them all policy, its what makes wars end sooner then later. If I'm alive at the end of the day I aint like them because their dead.
You can have all the nonlethal weapons in the world but if won't stop a committed enemy only fear or death will do that.

And if they are like the current batch of insurgents in Iraq that will blow themselves up then fear and death are not a deterent.  I wish I knew what was.

[Dee]

My son, last year was in Afganistan, and then Iraq. He had NO REAL PROBLEM with the Afgan mentality, but made an observation while there that he later made also in Iraq. When he came back from Iraq, he HAD NO USE for the Iraqi and describes them as a sorry lot. What was the observation he made in both countries? THEY HAVE NO REAL DESIRE FOR DEMOCRACY OR VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE. The Iraqi will litterally hold his own children up in front of himself as a shield during a fire fight. Like the previous poster said. How do you fight people that are willing to blow themselves and their children up? My son a Sgt. in a well recognized combat unit in the army and his group after having only 4 or 5 days back home, are now in Bagdad. Most did not want to go this time. They were anxious to do their duty the first time. Now they know the truth.
This is not really about equipment, and slaughter, although that's what's happening. This is about our goverment not comprehending that a revolution from a poplulation wanting freedom comes from WITHIN a country, not from the United States. Our goverment has become an ORGANIZATION of nation builders for big money profit, and our soldiers (my son included) are the pawns on the chess board. The chess board king will sacrifice every piece on the chess board to win the game. So called insurgents whom are actually muslim mercanaries are coming from all over the world to Iraq, for one purpose. The opportunity to kill Americans. When they have satisfied this desire, they go back home. This war can be if allowed, ENDLESS.JM2CW

[jgalar]

Make known and initiate a policy that a bomber's remains will be found, gathered up to be buried in pig entrails. Make it known that all our munitions will be lubricated with environmentally friendly pig entrails.

They may not be afraid to die, but fear going to hell!

[Dee]

Make known and initiate a policy that a bomber's remains will be found, gathered up to be buried in pig entrails. Make it known that all our munitions will be lubricated with environmentally friendly pig entrails.

They may not be afraid to die, but fear going to hell!

Black Jack Pershing made such a suggestion, and I have made that very suggestion on this web site on another thread. I was told how barbaric I was.
I say embalm them with pig blood, wrap them in the hide, and let them rot off a flag pole. We're over there anyway. But the war will not see an end in it's present format.

[koginam]

I think a lot of the hype about the Muslim people not caring about death is bull s#$t, Yes some are killing themselves by being bombers but the vast majority are not. The press and the radicals want us to believe this fiction but in reality the bombers are retards, children and yes a few die hard fanatics, but most of the Iraqi people just want to survive the day.  In WWII they said the Japanese didn't care about dieing and looked forward to death for the emperor, yet two atom bombs proved that wrong, I know many fought to the death but not all of the Japanese wanted to die or their would have been no peace and no Honda's,
My son has two tours their as a grunt in the 101st and has spoken to me about the bravery of some of the Iraqi soldiers he has fought beside and how they may not understand democracy but want it more then another dictator. These guys know they and their families are targeted every day by the enemy, and yet they go out each day and fight for a better life even one the don't understand
As I said before I have been in combat and seen the destruction it causes, I would rather fight their then here.
I agree with TM7 about not putting their heads on our shoulders they do have a different way of looking at things but so did we when we fought for independence, less then a third of the people in America wanted freedom from England and many left to Canada after the war but we learned to live free and so will they.

[Dee]

The only reason terrorist are in Iraq is because we're there. My son is in the 82nd and he says the Afgans have a lot more character than the Iraqis. His synopsis is some will fight and some won't and even the special forces guys say they are never sure who their training.

[Keith L]

"I think a lot of the hype about the Muslim people not caring about death is bull s#$t,"

No doubt the vast majority of Muslim people are not suicide bombers.  You are right: most are trying to make it through the day.  But it is the radicals we are having the issue with isn't it?  They are the ones killing each other, other Muslim people, and American soldiers.  And flying airplanes into the world trade towers.  Someone has to convice these folks that what they are doing is wrong.  I don't know what that will take.

[Dee]

Your trying to rationalize right and wrong and your concept of it to a religion that you obviously don't completely understand. Your thinking the world (including islam) can or should accept your standards. Our goverment is doing the same thing. Obviously it's not working.

[ironglow]

Dee;

   My Grandson's experience with the IAs (Iraqi Army) is somewhat different. First off ; as with your son,he has no respect for their character or morals. They are batting zero according to our standards...and according to the standards that their "holy men" profess !  In reality; that "holy man" thing is a real joke...
    Beyond that; they will fight..

  My Grandson is a Marine Special Ops...don't know if  their imbeded IA (Iraqi Army) troops were "pre-selected" or not !

  When I spoke with some of the other Marines in his unit, that served in him Iraq, they freely admitted that our presence there was drawing Al Queda trained fighters to the place.
 
    The Army is basically in and around Baghdad, fighting the sectarian violence and the Al Queda that make it to Baghdad ; while the Marines are basically in Al Anbar prov., especially along the Euphrates R...catching and killing Al Queda trained murderers on their way to Baghdad .
 
  The Marine veterans I spoke with tend to view their job as like hunting any predator. ..
   
   1) Predator invades our "chicken coop"..(9/11).

   2) Don't wait for 2 or 3 more of such invasions.

   3) As with any predator (coyote, wolf, big cat)  go to HIS backyard and call the predator to the gun and destroy them.

   4) These same Marines told me that they would rather go there and fight/decimate the terrorists, than to have them come here again..and we have to fight them in our towns .

    Getting weary of deployments ? Yes; but here's how Tony, an Iraqi vet that served with my Grandson put it:

  " I would wish that other American men of our age that are right now 'riding in freedom's wagon' would be willing to climb out and help to do a little of the pulling !"

   No, they don't want a draft; they don't want anyone serving beside them that is either unwilling or afraid to be there. They just wish that more would be motivated with patriotism.

   How do I see it ?
     
   There used to be an old lady that lived nearby..she had a couple dogs that needed worm treatment, One dog willingly took his bitter medicine and was soon on the mend.
  The second dog seemingly was divided. Sometimes he would try to hold and take his medicine..but then his body would rebel, twisting, clawing, scratching and fighting her off. That dog resisted her until he got pretty sick and weak....but finally, took his medicine.
      How much simpler it would have been if he had swallowed the difficult medicine and started upon the road to recovery much sooner....
   Right now, our people seem divided..like #2 dog..

  I am old enough to remember WW2..and how we all (Americans) pulled together to defeat the enemy. Sure, there were setbacks..Pearl Harbor should not have happened, we should have not lost Bataan, Corregidor or Wake island.
  We should not have lost the first battle at Kasserine pass..

...But war is like that; you don't just walk in and everybody falls down..like some silly video game !
 
 No American that I can personally recall were calling Pres Roosevelt names like assassin, murderer, invader and even uglier names.
    I don't recall anyone demonstrating in the streets, demanding that we cut and run from the Nazis..or that we back off; and let Emperor Hirohito's war machine hit our homeland again.

   If some of the detractors would just show the courage and tenacity that Americans had during WW2, this conflict would probably be settled by now.
 
  Instead; just look at many of the previous posts upon the subject....

  When someone has nothing but negative ( and sometimes hateful) things to say about our efforts, leaders and troops and little or nothing to say about our diabolical enemy....
            Then I am forced to wonder just which side their loyalties lie upon...
           

[oso45-70]

Very well put ironglow, More people need to study up on what war means and how to win, We have became a nation of wimps, Starting in Washington D.C. Have a good day Sir.........Joe........

[WylieKy]

  The Marine veterans I spoke with tend to view their job as like hunting any predator. ..
   
   1) Predator invades our "chicken coop"..(9/11).

   2) Don't wait for 2 or 3 more of such invasions.

   3) As with any predator (coyote, wolf, big cat)  go to HIS backyard and call the predator to the gun and destroy them.

   4) These same Marines told me that they would rather go there and fight/decimate the terrorists, than to have them come here again..and we have to fight them in our towns .

   

 I am old enough to remember WW2.


   
 I don't recall anyone demonstrating in the streets, demanding that we cut and run from the Nazis..or that we back off; and let Emperor Hirohito's war machine hit our homeland again.

   

  When someone has nothing but negative ( and sometimes hateful) things to say about our efforts, leaders and troops and little or nothing to say about our diabolical enemy....
            Then I am forced to wonder just which side their loyalties lie upon...
           

1. The predator comment.  I understand it, and would like to agree with it.   Here is the problem.  First, it assumes the enemy is a dumb animal and is falling into our trap!  Although barbaric, the enemy is far from stupid.  Keep in mind that a good portion of the worlds top physicians, scientists, and engineers are from Iraq, Saudi, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, etc....  The worst mistake in war is to assume your enemy is not as smart or dedicated as you are.  Two, if a coyote digs under the fence to you chicken coop, the first thing you do is secure your chicken coop!  You dig better foundations, get a stronger fence, etc..You don't spend night after night in the field and leave the door wide open!!!!!!!!!!  Not if it's the chickens you are actually concerned about....Huh....  Third, I've never been a fan of going into the field and killing random coyotes in the hope of taking down the one that poses an eminent threat to me or my farm.  You usually wind up with some dead, but dumb coyotes, all the while the survivors are more cunning and better prepared to evade hunters.  You trap and kill the ones on your farm and let the ones in the wild kill and eat bunnies.   Fourth, look at third.  Are we killing a lot of terrorists?  Yes.  Are we killing the ones that pose a true threat to the US.  Probably not many, and we are also MAKING terrorists.  The vast majority of the people we are fighting would be going to their day job, shaking their fists in anger at the US across the vastness of half a world for the injustices heaped upon them.  Instead, conveniently accessible soldiers are within hours of them and they go to make their dream live and blast their way into heaven.  Someone mentioned chess.  We are engaging the pawns, those that can only access those in adjoining areas.  Meanwhile, we are leaving ourselves wide open to the knights, bishops, queens, and rooks, the real warriors that have the resources to do real damage.  The only reason we have not suffered a debilitating attack is that THEY DON"T WANT TO ATTACK US AT THIS TIME.  They can sit back and let us make a fool and laughing stock of ourselves in the international community.  These are terrorists, not soldiers.  They fight not to destroy our military, or invade our country, they fight to change our way of life.  Right now they have succeeded in destroying our credibility with other nations, divided our country, and cost us billions (trillions?) of dollars to engage their pawns.  Attacking the US again at this time would REVERSE much that they have worked so hard to attain. 

WWII is the problem.  This is not WWII, which was a sectarian war against a uniformed enemy.  This is a jihad.  A war of religion against zealots, for the minds of the people. There are no rules of engagement.  There is no front.  There is no definable enemy. People are still thinking that enough tanks, or soldiers, or bombers will win this war.  It will not.  Ever try holding the lid down on a boiling pot?  You may succeed for a while, but eventually the pot is going to blow and someone is going to get burned. 

Luckily, Hitler and Emperor Hirohito had a uniformed army that we could engage and defeat, and feed the American people a steady stream of successes, even if there were occasional defeats.  Here there is no map of Europe showing the march to victory.  No model of the Pacific showing how many islands are down and how many to go until we reach their homeland.  If you remember, there were very few protests against the war in Iraq as long as we were advancing and winning battles and bringing glory home.

I am loyal to America, and what is in America's best interest.  I have no loyalty to a President or Administration.  I would obey any legal demand he made of me.  I agree with about half of his policies. However, he is our leader, not our sovereign, and being able to question his decisions is the difference.  As long as his decisions are in America's best interest, I agree.  When I don't think they are, I don't.  At this point, I don't think our game plan is a strategically successful one (although tactically, it is nearly flawless), therefore I express my opinion.  Do not question my Patriotism, for questioning the decisions of our leaders.   Remember where we came from.

WylieKy