Author Topic: Which semi to get.  (Read 2044 times)

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Offline Coalminer7

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Which semi to get.
« on: February 27, 2007, 04:17:39 PM »
Want to buy my first semi pistol.  Looked at SW MP's, like the feel.  Springfield XD appears OK, Sigs are know to real good guns and Rugers seem to be a good value.  Want a .40 smith caliber, looked at all the guns and am so confused.  Just want a high cap. gun for home defense.  Is it best to get what feels the best?

Any feedback welcome good or bad.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2007, 08:38:58 PM »
Coalminer7, have had a 1911-.45 for about 25 years or so. Told the kids, you can stick that one in the box with me, when it's check out time. But the one I just recently purchased, a S&W MP40, is starting to work out just fine. Just today, ran thru 25 rds. of 165gr. fprd nose with 9.8gr. of AA No.7, and it functioned with out a hitch. I did have some feed problems with some cast bullets earlier, but that might just have been because the gun was still tight. I think that the S&W M/P 40 is going to be a keeper.We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!! Remember-(12/7/41)-(9/11/01) gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2007, 01:36:48 AM »
My carry gun is a Sig P229 in .357 sig. Great gun. A .40 would also be a good choice in a Sig. JMHO  ;)
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2007, 01:45:49 AM »
what are you looking to spend. If budget isnt a problem id recomend a sig or H&k. If moneys a little tight its hard to beat a ruger or a springfied xd. It goes against my grain to recomend any of them though as im a 1911 guy by heart. But i guess there not for everyone.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2007, 02:02:55 AM »
Lloyd Smale, I am a 1911 guy also. I love the feel of it. It is just a little to big for my carry gun.  ;D
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Offline jgalar

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2007, 02:17:24 AM »

Offline Mikey

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2007, 02:36:10 AM »
Coalminer - how much experience do you have with semi-auto pistols????  If you have little or no practical experience then my suggestion would be for a single action semi-auto of the 1911 design.  They are easy to shoot and easy to learn with.  The da semi-autos do not always have the kind of trigger setup that is conducive to learning how to shoot well with a pistol.  There are 1911 design semi-autos in 40 S&W I believe and if you want, you can always get a 1911 in 10mm and install a 40 S&W barrel for you home defense needs.  You can always switch back to the 10mm barrel if you want a heavier 10mm caliber or install a 357 Sig barrel and have yourself a 3rd caliber.  JMHO.  Mikey.

Offline LEO

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 03:18:26 AM »
You are on the right track here any of those handguns would serve your intended role well.  You are partially right also about getting the one that feels best/fits best for your particular hand, however, I would try and shoot as many of the models that you are looking at if that is possible. Do any of your friends have the models you are looking at or is there a range nearby that rents the models in question.  The reason I say this is that often a handgun that fits real well when you are just holding it doesn't fit as well when you are shooting it.  Also since your intended use is for home defense go with the full size models of the handguns you are looking at in that they are easier to shoot well for most people than the compacts (now I didn't say more accurate, just easier to shoot).  Also since it will be a home defense handgun as opposed to a daily carry model, I would consider getting one with a rail for a mounted light this would allow you to illuminate the threat for positive ID and still allow you to dedicate both hands to the manipulation of your handgun and for a home defense handgun the added bulk is not an issue.  Finally which ever model you choose practice with it often and try to replicate the situation where you are most likely to use the handgun in, my guess would be short range/low light.  Also anyone else in the household who may have to use the handgun should practice regularly also.  Finally if you haven't already done so set your situation up so you will have the handgun, a good flashlight, and a phone instantly available in the event of an intrusion.  Remember in a something went bump in the night situation it is far better to establish a defensive postion and let the invader come to you than it is to try to hunt the invader down.  Because in your defensive position you will have set it up so there is only one avenue of approach and that you can't be flanked or approached from the rear, you will have a position of cover and will have a good field of fire on the way that the intruder must approach also be sure that it provides a position of cover for any loved ones that may be in the house with you also.  Ideally there will be multiple layers that the intruder must breach before they reach your position, ie. in addition to the exterior door, one or more locked interior doors.  While this is not absolutely necessary, it buys you time to get the cobwebs out of your head prior to entering this confrontation plus depending on where you live it may make things easier for you in court because you can show that not only did the intruder break into your dwelling they also broke through an additional locked door to get to you.  Also the 911 tapes will capture the sound of the door being broken down, your challenges and anything the intruder might say, because you did call 911 and leave the line open didn't you.  You may already know all of this and have this in place but since you asked about home defense handguns, I thought I would throw this out in case you haven't already thought about it.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2007, 05:17:12 AM »
redhawk that may fly for a full sized 5 inch gun. But ive also got an alloy commander a 3 inch alloyed framed gun and a dectonics comabatmaster and none of them are bigger or heavier then the smallest sig or glock, well maybe the dectonics is a tad heavier ;D and to me the fact that they are a bunch narrower then most of the black guns makes them easier yet to conseal.
Lloyd Smale, I am a 1911 guy also. I love the feel of it. It is just a little to big for my carry gun.  ;D
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Offline John R.

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 07:56:18 AM »
I'm a 1911 guy at heart, but I bought a Springfield 45 XD several months ago and I'm here to tell you that it's one sweet pistol. It won gun of the year and I can see why. It has a grip safety, so all you have to do is pick up the gun and shoot. (nothing else to fool with) The 45 holds 13 in the mag and the 40 only holds 12. That makes it a no brainer on caliber. (bigger is better anyway) If you get a chance, try this pistol, I guarentee you'll like it. :)

Offline Coalminer7

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2007, 01:47:41 PM »
Guys, In reference to my experience in semi's I own a Ruger mark 2 / .22 target with about 6 revolvers and 15 long guns.  This is my first go round with semi's of larger calibers.  One problem I have is my hands are small and large grips pose a problem.  The MP feels the best, but like I said I want your opinions due to your prior experience.  Money wise I would like to spend up to $500.00.  I just want to pick up a high cap. pistol as I think down the road we face many battles, which I think we will lose as gun owners as our goverment leadership changes, and I bans will be imposed.

Keep them opinions coming.                 thanks

Offline Wingman26

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2007, 01:50:08 PM »
The S&W MP40 is a clear winner, the ergonomics are second to none, the XD is a good second choice.  There has been a tremendous number of Glock shooters selling their Glocks to buy the M&P series pistols, I believe a lot of that is due to the ergonomics as much as anything else. 
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Offline poncaguy

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2007, 02:55:27 PM »
My 40 is a Glock 22, great pistol,  all my other auto hand guns are Ruigers, excellent, accurate and super reliable...and very low prices.made in USA

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2007, 03:22:42 PM »
Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns [Glock]
New Jersey State Police ^ | February 23, 2007 | New Jersey State Police-


Posted on 02/28/2007 11:52:31 AM PST by archy


Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns

The following bulletin was received from the New Jersey State Police - Officer Safety Division

Date: February 23, 2007

Continuous reloading an chambering of the same round may cause catastrophic failure in semiautomatic handguns.

The Security Force at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in Los Alamos, New Mexico, recently reported on the catastrophic failure of a semiautomatic handgun when it was fired. The internal explosion caused the frame to break while the slide and barrel separated from the weapon and traveled down range. No one was injured in the incident. An investigation revealed that security personnel were repeatedly charging the same round of ammunition into the chamber.

Technical personnel at Glock Inc. advise that repeated chambering of the same round may cause the bullet to move deeper in the casing, further compacting the prpellent. When a normal cartride is fired, the firing pin his the primer, igniting the propellant. When the propellant burns, the gas pressure drives the bullet out of the case and down the barrel. However, if the propellant has been compact, the pressure may increase beyond the gun's specifications, causing the weapon to break apart. Sigarms Inc's peronnel confirm that reloading the same round five or six times will cause the problems, noting that reloading the same round even once will void their warranty. Both manufacturers stress that the problem is not with the gun, but with chambering the same round repeatedly.

The NJ Regional Operations Intelligence Center urges all law enforement officers not to chamber the same round when loading their weapons.

***For example, when you clean your weapon, most of us drop the magazine and then pull the slide back thereby ejecting the round in the barrel. After cleaning the weapon many of us will return the "same" round to the barrel that we initially extracted. Each time the slide slams forward on that same round it seats it deeper into the cartridge. Apparently, by seating the round deeper into the cartridge, it creates greater pressure when the round is intentionally detonated by a firing pin strike and is causing weaopn's to explode.


-xxx-

*-more-*



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOPICS: Announcements; Government; Miscellaneous; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: BANGLIST; GLOCK; KABOOM; KBOOM; NEWJERSEY; POLICE; SAFETY; WARNINGNOTICE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Los Alamos report:

On 12 December 2006, at 0845, at Technical Area 72, Firing Range 1, a Glock 22 handgun exploded in the hands of a Protective Technology Los Alamos (PTLA) firearms instructor as he fired the handgun.

The firearms instructor was not injured, but felt some soreness in his right hand. He noted that the force of the handgun pushed his right thumb back. The handgun shattered into several pieces; the pieces flew everywhere and eventually landed on the ground. He safed the remaining box of ammunition and then reported the event to his management. As a precaution, the firearms instructor was taken to the Laboratory's occupational medicine facility for evaluation. He was evaluated, released to return to work with no restrictions, and scheduled for a follow-up evaluation the next day.


The instructor was preparing for a training exercise and was the only person on thefiring range at the time of the event. He wore the prescribed personal protective equipment for firearms use (safety glasses, armored vest, head and hearing protection, nomex gloves, a long sleeve shirt, and safety boots.)

The handgun has been secured in the PTLA armory. PTLA management has initiated an internal investigation.

Subsequent preliminary PTLA review indicated that a possible combination of excessive pressure and a bore obstruction contributed to the explosion.

The rounds used during this training event were duty rounds recently removed from service that had been used in a magazine containing a single round by PTLA forces. The single rounds of ammunition designated for initial loading in Glock 22 handguns are used on a daily basis and the one round of ammunition is typically loaded 45 times over a 30-day period. The frequent loading of the rounds continually pounds the ammunition into the chamber, which in turn recesses the bullet further into the casing. Over time and use, the projectile is seated deeper into the cartridge case contributing to an increase inpressure upon firing.


Because the event revealed lessons learned that may be pertinent to the DOE complex, the Institutional Facilities and Central Services Facility Operations Director deemed the event reportable as a management concern.

Background:


The firearms instructor had used the handgun for about five years.He noted that the last time he used the handgun was on 7 December 2006, and had cleaned and secured the handgun that same day. Before the event, the instructor had fired the handgun five times. After the event, the instructor noticed that one bullet remained in the handgun. Other PTLA firearms instructors noted that this is the first time this type of event has occurred with Glock handguns at PTLA.

Cause Description:

Operating Conditions:

Training Exercises Activity Category:

Training Immediate Action(s): As a precaution, the firearms instructor was taken to LANL occupational medicine for evaluation. He was evaluated and released to return to work with no restrictions. He returned for a follow-up evaluation on 13 December 2006.

The handgun has been secured in the PTLA armory.

PTLA management has initiated an internal investigation.

The remaining box of single round loading magazine ammunition has been removed from service and will be properly disposed of.

PTLA will not use defective rounds for training and will dispose of them.

FM Evaluation:

DOE Facility Representative Input:

DOE Program Manager Input:

Further Evaluation is Required:

No Division or Project:

Protection Technology Los Alamos Plant Area: TA72, Firing Range 1

System/Building/Equipment: Glock 22 Handgun Facility


If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline poncaguy

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2007, 03:31:33 PM »
Maybe I should trade my Glock 22 for a Ruger P944 40......................

Offline Wingman26

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2007, 05:41:15 PM »
In the current issue of Handguns there is a comparison between 5 semi auto handguns, 5 shooters evaluated the pistols and scored each one on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 being the lowest score and 5 the highest, 25 was a perfect score, here's how they scored:

Best score in each category listed in red

Ergonomics
Glock 17 20
H&K P2000 23
S&W M&P 9 24
Springfield XD 23
Para-Ord LDA 23

Trigger Control
Glock 17 16
H&K P2000 16
S&W M&P 9 19 tie
Springfield XD 18
Para-Ord LDA 19 tie

Sights
Glock 17 19
H&K P2000 18
S&W M&P 9 20 tie
Springfield XD 20 tie

Para-Ord LDA 21

Accuracy
Glock 17 20
H&K P2000 21
S&W M&P 9 22 tie
Springfield XD 20
Para-Ord LDA 22 tie


Ease of Reloading
Glock 17 21
H&K P2000 14
S&W M&P 9 22
Springfield XD 20
Para-Ord LDA 21
John
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2007, 11:28:59 PM »
Not what you want to know.
In the purchase of a firearm for srotection and ease of carry thye choices boil down to the best possible firearms made--not the prettiest, most capacity, media/rag hype.
The facts are that Glocks--I can't even believe that I typed Glock--Sigs, HK's, STI's out of the box are the most reliable.
Have all looked at by VERY competent smith's and reliability checked.
Fifteen rounds that will not chamber or eject is not what you want.
I carry a couple of SIG's in 239 and 220, a couple of STI's (full size) and soon a Colt Government with full trust that each will function evertime.
Get what you want, just don't take it out without knowing what it will do and that doesn't mean a box of bullets at the range. Wring it out until it proves itself--which is too me, at least 500 bullets--more is better.
I like the heft--because I don't carry it all day, every day as many of the boys do--but I always have one handy--of a full size semi-auto and I do like more than 6 rounds of bullets.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Savage

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2007, 06:23:25 AM »
Buy as many of the semi auto pistols as you can afford. No matter the make. Be sure to invest in as many full capacity mags as you can afford as well. They will become very valuable and hard to get very soon.
Savage
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Offline Coalminer7

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2007, 04:00:06 PM »
Savage, AGREE with you 100%, the next charge by the anti's will be without mercy or prisoners, they will make a move like we have never seen before.

Leaning towars the MP, can get 1 for $399.00 + taxes.

Thinking on a 9mm for ammo cost vs the 40.

any thoughts on caliber choice????????????

Offline ccoker

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2007, 04:37:36 PM »
I have had lots of glocks, sigs, one xd, several 1911s

I love my 1911 for shooting, it's just SO sweet

I would have to suggest at least checking out the new Smith M&P

a used Sig 226 in 40 for around 400 is a great gun

if you want a light rail, then, factor that in and not a bad idea for HD use

an XD 40 tactical would be a good bet, I had one for a bit, worked fine

I am not a huge 40 fan, I much prefer the 45, I find it easier to shoot, less snappy recoil and more of a push...

wouldn't recommend 357 sig, it's strong point is penetration, I would be worried about overpenetration in the home

while I don't like night sights for the sight picture and preciese shooting, for a pure HD gun they make sense

go check out a bunch, pick a target on the wall 30 ft away, close your eyes, point the gun, open your eyes
some point more naturally than others for different people...

in all honesty, any of the name brand guns are good, be sure to shoot several hundred rounds through them to check for functionality... if you have a police supply shop, that can be a great source for used pistols

I live in Austin and the local place has the best price on ammo, great prices on used stuff, clean glocks with 3 hicaps, night sights etc for 350.00 or so.. all the time.. clean used sigs for 400, etc.. good stuff

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2007, 02:54:31 AM »
looks like the para lda did as good as the smith in this comparison. Anybody have alot of experience with them. Ive allways been curious as to how i would do shooting ppc with one. I allways shoot better scores shooting a revolver da then sa. I think its the staging of the trigger that gives you time to aquire a good sight picture and was wondering if anyone tried one in competion and what they thought of it.
In the current issue of Handguns there is a comparison between 5 semi auto handguns, 5 shooters evaluated the pistols and scored each one on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 being the lowest score and 5 the highest, 25 was a perfect score, here's how they scored:

Best score in each category listed in red

Ergonomics
Glock 17 20
H&K P2000 23
S&W M&P 9 24
Springfield XD 23
Para-Ord LDA 23

Trigger Control
Glock 17 16
H&K P2000 16
S&W M&P 9 19 tie
Springfield XD 18
Para-Ord LDA 19 tie

Sights
Glock 17 19
H&K P2000 18
S&W M&P 9 20 tie
Springfield XD 20 tie

Para-Ord LDA 21

Accuracy
Glock 17 20
H&K P2000 21
S&W M&P 9 22 tie
Springfield XD 20
Para-Ord LDA 22 tie


Ease of Reloading
Glock 17 21
H&K P2000 14
S&W M&P 9 22
Springfield XD 20
Para-Ord LDA 21
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Offline ccoker

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2007, 04:19:21 AM »
I have just enough negative stuff on para ordanance to not be too interested in them..

Offline 1marty

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2007, 03:09:30 PM »
this may be off track but if you are looking for a home defense gun then I would suggest a rem 870 12 gauge in a 20 inch. load it with a #4 shot and your next round 00 buck. I have 3 auto pistols however, for home defense I rely on my 870. Also, if it is your first "pistol" start with a 22 (ruger or browning buckmark) to get the feeling of shooting a auto loader.
Keep in mind when the bad guy hears the shotgun rack or is looking down its barrel all you are going to see is his tire marks as he drives away. 

Offline ccoker

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2007, 05:43:27 PM »
I'll agree with that
I love handguns and have plenty up to the task.. but my home is protected with a pump shotgun
an 870 youth 20ga
small enough for my wife to handle and handle the recoil
20ga will absolutely take care of business

Offline dixiedog

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2007, 01:51:05 PM »
Springfield XD 40 OR 45 CAL. NO HANG UPS Safe and Reliable.  Say the 45 acp. in a service model,14 rounds and a light rail for night use,keeps your hands on the pistol. NEVER HAD A FTF, FTE in any of my XD'S with factory ammo.  ;)

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2007, 11:43:11 PM »
I had a p18 para. Its a double stacked 1911 in 9mm and it was a very reliable gun and accurate too. Only reason i sold it is i wanted a single stacked gun to shoot ppc with and the double stacked grip just didnt feel right to me after all these years of single stacked 1911s. But if my para was any indication id recomend one in a heartbeat.
I have just enough negative stuff on para ordanance to not be too interested in them..
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Offline ccoker

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2007, 01:56:44 AM »
that's good to hear Lloyd


Offline AZ223

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Re: Which semi to get.
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2007, 03:36:58 PM »
My Para P12-45 has functioned flawlessly for the past 9 years; I'm not aware of the problems others have had. While I'm partial to 1911's for fit and feel, I handled my friend's Walther P22 recently, and I was really surprised at how well it fit, and the accuracy. I'd be curious about the P99 in .40 for that reason alone, even though I'm not really fond of "tupperware" guns   :D
Life was so much simpler when I thought I knew everything...