8 X 32 vs 8 X 42 Binoculars

[Rusty]

Has anybody tried the "Mid size" binoculars (8 X 32)?  If you have how are they (versus say 8 X 42) in twilight?  Is there any noticable difference in image quality and length of viewing time?

Also has anyone tried the Bushnell Legend binoculars?  If you have how do they compare to other binoculars you have used.   :coffee:

[TheOpticZone]

For brightness at twilight the 8x42's are going to be brighter for you.  My brother has a pair of the Roof Prism Legends and he loves them.  They are bright, crisp and he likes the rainguard feature.  For the money they are a great binocular.

[chk]

I bought  B&L Discoverer 7x42binos last year. The rain Guard works as advertised. The 42mm objective lens will be brighter than the 30mm lens. I bought these particular binos for brightness and light gathering ability. They cost about $50 more than the Legend series Bushnell binos. I bought a Bino System harness to use while hunting. It puts the weight on your shoulders instead of your neck. The Bino System harness makes the lighter weight of the 30mm size binos a moot point for me.   Dave

[Naphtali]

chk, howdy.

Boy did you hit my "hot" button. I owned and used Zeiss-Jena 7 x 40 EDFs. Excellent. The same with Leitz Trinovid 8 x 40s and Zeiss 8 x 30 B/GA IF Olives. All are excellent.

The binoculars with larger objective lens ratios are, in the real world, no brighter than my 8 x 30s which I now use exclusively. The smaller binoculars are much easier to carry.

B U T . . .

The real world for me is: I'm in my fifties. My pupils no longer dilate wide enough to use the enhanced light-gathering ability of larger binoculars.

The only time you will detect any difference -- think light gathering -- favoring the larger binocular is when shooting is illegal. Even then, I seriously doubt you'll notice any superiority of an 8 x 40.

The most important factors are optical quality and ease of use. Lighter is easier unless you use them off-hand -- but you wouldn't do that, would you?

Quality is easy to identify. Spend the bucks! You will use them for the rest of your life, so your cost per day of ownership is peanuts. I prefer German or Austrian binoculars because the lenses and coatings seem to resist scratching better than Japanese glass.

Remember, a binocular is two telescopes mounted to let you use them simultaneously. If they become misaligned, if optics are imperfect, you won't use them. You'll get headaches, or will have trouble keeping them focused on what you're looking at. Ruggedness, durability, reliability cost money. Spend and be happy you did.

[chk]

Ok if we could have 10x25mm binos with a 10mm exit pupil vs the 2.5 you would have in the real world and both were equal in brightness,which one would you want? The 10mm exit pupil is more forgiving as to eye alignment to the optics. That will give you less eye strain and agrivation if you're doing a lot of glassing. I see your points and they work for you so who am I to argue? Me, I'll go with more weight and bulk to get what I want.

[Naphtali]

Your reduction to the absurd is outside your own parameters, or am I mistaken? I thought you were comparing 8 x 30/32 with 8 x 40/42.

Let me bow out of the discussion. You do what you think is best for you, and we'll all be pleased.

[chk]

Napthali, I think we're off on the wrong foot here. Let me ask you this, do you wear glasses when you use your binoculars? It makes a great difference if you do even with the twistup eye cups. If you don't, try using the binoculars with sunglasses on and see it it is more difficult to use them then. Your eye alignment is more critical with glasses on than without them on. Yes, the example I used exceeds the laws of physics. I used it for an example of exit pupil size only. I look at the exit pupil much like a bullseye. The larger the bullseye, the easier it is to hit. Maybe this is an over simlification on my part. Binoculars weighing 6.5 oz. more is not a big deal to me. I also can't afford $600 more for binoculars at this time. I'm sure a $900 8x30 binocular will out perform a $300 8x42 in brightness and clarity due to the better glass and coatings.

[Naphtali]

You had not mentioned using spectacles.

1. For the most part larger ratios (see first replay) yield more forgiving eye relief.

2. Alignment of telescope barrels should not be dependent upon quality of spectacles' alignment any more than for of non-spectalce wearers. If you wear glasses and they are out of alignment, you'll know -- headaches & more. If your glasses adjust for astigmatism, as well as visual acuity, you are correct.

3. Binocular manufacturers build eye relief into each design. some pocket binoculars offer long eye relief -- at the expense of field of view.

4. All of the binoculars I have used are suitable with spectacles.

5. At my stage of life, I wear glasses but do not wear them when looking through binoculars. I push glasses up with binocular.

6. Why, you might ask? Spectacles add two air-to-glass surfaces that are without lense coating to reduce glare or light refraction. It's a little thing, but i believe it helps -- the plcebo effect?

7. Can't afford good ones? AHA! the problem.  Buy used.  Buy military surplus from Deutsche Optik. Many manufaturers offer transferrable warranties. Most warranties for high-quality binocualrs are L O N G. Steiner binocualrs, for example, are often on sale at Sierra Tading Post, Sportsman's Guide, and many mail order "birding" optics' resellers.

8. If $300 is your top price, you have many choices from #7. Deutsche Optik has Leica, Hensolt, Zeiss-Jena, etc. These are excellent, and so is seller.

9. Rather than rely on numbers -- 8 x30, 8 x 42, 8 x 56 -- invest a full day. Visit a large reseller and try your top choices out. Convenience in using may prove to be more of a deal-breaker than eye relief or field of view. And remember $900 dollars -- I wouldn't be caught dead paying that much -- is not very much per day for the rest of your life. The last binoculars I bough were Zeiss 8 x 30s, which cost $620 new in January 2002. I invested another 200 to send them to Germany for an F2 rangefinder reticule and snow lenses.

Good deals are always available if you root around. Good luck.

[chk]

Good suggestions. It would take me a full day to check them out. A dealer like you suggest is at least 3hrs drive away. If you can scan a picture of the Zeiss binoculars you are trying to change the strap on I'll be glad to give it some thought. The Bino System shoulder strap setup I use is great. You aren't sore and fatigued at the end of the day. When properly adjusted give it will give you support to steady the optics. Dave

[Naphtali]

This web site doesn't appear to have a way to insert graphics into postings. It is a Zeiss 8 x 30 B/GA IF ClassiC (or Olive). This translates to roof prism (Schmidt prisms), olive green rubber armor, individually focusing eye pieces, suitable for eye glasses.

Possibly Zeiss USA or Zeiss Germany will have it on their web site. It is not imported anymore. It is still made for European sale.

[Rusty]

I have tried the Zeiss Jena binoculars, 7 X 40, warsaw pact surplus.  They were very clear and bright, however their lens coatings were primarily for morning and sunset viewing (the coatings were very yellow, this gave daytime binoing a heavy gold tone, in low light it was allright though).  Also they were roof prism and were produced before phase coating came in.  The glass seemed pretty distotion free.  They were also heavy, and felt bomb proof, and had lattached lens covers.  I haven't tested the Zeiss Jena against other "current hunting" binoculars, but my guess is that they won't be as bright as even the Bushnell Legends, certainly not the Nikon Monarchs or Pentax DCF WPs.  However they were very nice, the Germans glass is probably superior, and they are built to last.

If you are going to spend time and do a side by side test, do it in dimmer light, and stack the binoculars to be tested on top of each other and look into the shadows.  

Finally, Cheaper than dirt also has or had used Zeiss 7 X 40 porro prism "tanker binoculars", that appear to be a good deal too.  Deusch Optics also has some good used binoculars.

Re: Carrying strap: I have always wondered about the carrying strap systems.  If they really work, I may buy one some day.  In the past, I just have shoved my 10 X 40's into my shirt (I unbutton one shirt button) to keep them from swinging around.  The binos do not get fogged up, and this carrying system has worked well enuf for me (I plan of applying for a patent: The Rusty Carrying Method: just kidding).

Thanks for all the information.  I find optics to be a very interesting subject. :twisted:

[chk]

Rusty, the shoulder strap system really does a good job. I used mine last year all day every day I deer hunted without a complaint.
   Dave