Author Topic: Round in chamber?  (Read 1388 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ATR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Round in chamber?
« on: March 27, 2007, 11:06:31 AM »
For you guys that carry do you have a round in the chamber? I'm  speaking of modern revolvers and autos
                                                                                                                             thanks,,,atr

Offline leverfan

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 11:43:38 AM »
Yes, always.  If I need it, I'm apt to need it quick.  Proper instruction, a good holster, and a quality firearm make this a perfectly safe way to carry.

Now, when I want to pack an old-fashioned single action that lacks a transfer bar, I leave an empty chamber under the hammer, but you said you weren't talking about them.
NRA life member

Offline Devy55

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 12:09:49 PM »
I always have a round in the chamber.

My autos are SA/DA. I usually carry with the hammer down, in the DA mode.   But if I need it, I can draw and pull the trigger which will cock and fire the hammer.  After that, the slide resets the hammer to full cock and I can fire SA repeatedly.  If the gun is dropped, the hammer won't strike unless the trigger is held.

I carry my revolvers the same way.  Mine have a flat faced hammer with transfer bar firing mechanism which means the hammer can't strike the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled, even if you drop the gun.  I chose not to buy revolvers that have the hammer spur resting on the cartridge. 

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2007, 05:42:36 PM »
If you have to take the time to jack a round in the chamber in a SHTF situation, then you are likely in deep stuff.

I wouldn't think of carrying a gun with an empty chamber, heck, you might as well carry a blackjack and leave the gun at home.  JMHO.

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 03:59:36 AM »
Any firearm of recent manufacture is safe to carry chambered. Well, let me qualify that to say, those that I am aware of. Some now days, are safetied to death with unnecessary firing pin safeties and key locks.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 07:10:56 AM »
Depends on the weapon I am carrying at the time.
With proper training though, Not having a round in the chamber
is not that much of a handicap. Our instructors would draw Chamber and fire
their little Beretta model 70's as fast as a  S & W model 10 revolver.
Chambering a round does not take much longer than fumbling with a safety
on some firearms. I never achieved their level of skill, But I got close.
If I have a semi-auto with me, it is normally un-chambered.
Which is pretty much a moot point with me now, because I normally
carry a revolver.


 
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Coppertop

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 62
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 07:54:25 AM »

I don't remember when or where, but a few years back I saw an article about some Israeli commandos that carried un-chambered and could draw, chamber and shoot in a very short amount of time.  I'm sure it is the same thing S. Sumner is talking about. I don't see why you would carry like that with "today's"  guns. Unless you are worried about someone taking your gun before you can use it?  JMHO

Offline canon6

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (119)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1508
  • Gender: Male
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 07:56:08 AM »
If I am carrying a semi auto it ALWAYS has a round in the chamber,I have  DA only semiauto's(KelTec) and SA semiauto's(BHP) but I have been carrying one for 45+ years, so safety is not an issue    Doug
a armed man is his own master

Offline TNrifleman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 542
  • Gender: Male
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 02:10:29 PM »
For serious social purposes, I always carry a DA revolver, DA/SA Auto, or SA Auto with a round in the chamber.

Offline Heavy C

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1088
  • Gender: Male
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2007, 05:13:25 AM »
Sure do.  I have a recent production model 625-10 and all six chambers have a resident.  When I carry my 1911, it is cocked and locked with one in the chamber.

It all boils down to training and practice.  If all you do is practice racking the slide to chamber a round in a semi auto; then it should be second nature. 

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2007, 06:14:19 AM »
Training from several different sources have convinced me that "if you carry, you should carry with a round in the chamber."  Some people may claim that they can draw their weapon, rack the slide and shoot a perp before they can do damage to them.  Some may be able to, but only after long hours of training.  The follow is just a sample of the many articles from various police agencies expressing their views on the need to be able to draw and fire immediately.

At my advanced age,  I feel more secure knowing I am ready when the weapon comes out, the additional 2-3 seconds required to load a round into the chamber, or advance the cylinder may be the reason I am killed, or seriously injured by some thug.  Read the follow, and make up your mind how you are best protected.

*"Fast-Draw" vs Proactive Defense*
Better Tactics for Defensive Handgunning
By: Goshin
20 April 2006

*Depending* on being "Faster on the draw" than the other guy probably isn't your best option for defensive handgunning. While it is certainly a *must* to practice drawing and firing your weapon quickly from whatever your "street-carry" mode is, good tactical decision-making beats a fast-draw almost every time.

More and more, I see that "pre-emptive" or "pro-active" tactics are the most effective at every level...but even better is not letting things reach that point in the first place.

For those of us who carry, a big question is "when do you draw your weapon?"

Some people would say "When someone pulls a weapon on me."
BONK! So sorry, you are probably dead now.
At Rubicon training campouts, we've repeatedly proven what most police departments have recognized and been teaching officers for some time now: a man with a knife can run a **minimum** of 21 feet and stab you in the time it takes to react, draw and shoot **from an exposed duty holster!** With concealed carry, it is more like 30 feet or more!

I've seen demonstrations by experts...most fast-draws from concealed-carry take 2-3 seconds if they're *fast*...fastest timed draw&shoot from concealment I ever saw was still about 0.7 sec, not counting "reaction" time...IIRC that was from a "speed scabbard" under an unbuttoned jacket, by an exceptional individual.

With concealed carry, a handgun under a shirt or coat with an IWB or paddle-holster, or in a fanny pack gun-carrier, it might take even a very practiced person 3-5 seconds to draw *after* beginning to react...and the "reaction gap" can be a very significant delay. Reaction times are .22 sec avg for "simple reaction time" (single clear stimuli with single preset response)...the uncertainties and multi-path decision making process of self-defense can quadruple, 10x or 20x this time easily, not really even counting the "oh chit!" factor;) Also, most law-abiding cits will be relucatant to draw until they are "sure it is justified."


Might go something like this:


1st second..."Why is that guy running this way?"

2nd second..."Is that a knife in his hand?"

3rd second..."Oh chit!"

4th second...begin draw

5th, 6th, 7th...continue draw

8th second: hasty aim and fire.


Most healthy young men can run 30-40 yards in 8 seconds, some more....sobering thought isn't it? Might want to think about being trained and ready to *Dodge* that knife attack, letting him miss and run past, *then* draw on him...right?


If the other guy has a gun, and it's already out when you begin to react, he will almost certainly fire first; perhaps more than once. He may miss; he may not. If he hits you, you might be able to return fire, or you might not; you may survive your wound, or you may die.

We can do better than that.

Informed awareness, avoidance, and proactive tactics are the keys.

Watch for pairs and groups acting "out of place" in a "transition zone": a place where people are going to or from somewhere else, where a criminal might have the 20-30 seconds of isolation he needs to rob, kill or kidnap. (ditto any other place that could be considered "Elevated threat": Convenience-store after dark, etc)

Watch for stiff or jerky movements, trembling, or other "abnormal" body language...pale faces, or a mixture of pallor and ruddiness on the face, is another indicator of high adrenaline flow, a common precursor to violence. Not all perps may exhibit these signs to a noticable degree however.

Keep an eye out for anyone trying to "blindside you" along a rear flank, or a pair/group trying to "bracket" you or "flank" you. Assume any stranger who approaches you in an isolated or transitional zone with a line of patter might have hostile intent, weapons and a partner.

If you see it coming this far ahead, move quickly to avoid the danger. If you can't escape/evade, move to where you have hard-cover to put between your one and only skin and any fast-moving-lead.

"What's the best defense against a falling boulder? Don't be there when it lands!";)

Someone who is broadcasting "bad guy" body language and persistently tries to position himself where he can confront or assault you, who puts his hand(s) in a pocket or behind his back or under his shirt/jacket may well be reaching for a weapon. A weapon may also be concealed in a bag or package held in the hands, or a shirt/coat slung over one arm or shoulder.

Depending on circumstances and how you carry your CCW, you can often draw your weapon without "displaying" it, keeping it out of sight behind your back or leg, or concealed by wall/door/package in your hands/etc. A gun in hand clear of its holster is way-faster to respond to a threat than one under your shirt in an IWB, SOB or paddle holster.

A law-abiding citizen walks a fine line in these circumstances: act too soon or with "excessive" force and you might spend the rest of your life in prison...too little or too late and your family may bury you instead. Any time there is a hostile confrontation you must be aware that it may go to an extreme, and that one of the final-fates above might be the result. Write this message 'on the inside of your eyelids' so that it is always in the front of your mind: "Trouble is like a poisonous snake: Avoid it!!"

A sub-lethal alternative is a good option: see my article on "Layering Personal Defenses" for details on why OC spray is a perfect "sidekick" for the pistol-packer.

 

 

If you act "pre-emptively" or "pro-actively", you may reduce the likelihood that there will be violence at all; recent studies suggest that in 98%-plus situations where citizens defend themselves with firearms, no shots are fired at all. Be aware, however, that "pre-emptive" action involving injury or death may be harder to justify in court, depending on the state's laws and the circumstances. You'll need a good lawyer to help you articulate why the person's actions constituted a reasonable threat that prompted your "pre-emption"; that's another reason to do all you can do to avoid the situation in the first place, your avoidance efforts will count in your favor in court later.

Be aware also, that most shooting incidents occur at 7 feet or less, and many at 3 feet or less. In some cases, if he is already drawing a weapon and you have not touched yours yet, you'd be better off to use HTH techniques to disarm or disable him rather than trying to "beat him to the draw" (which isn't likely with concealed carry).

With concealed carry, it is probably best, if you can't -or choose not to- draw first, to **take cover first** if your attacker may have a gun, THEN draw your weapon. One of the things they hammered into us at the police academy was that most officer deaths-by-armed-perp were caused by 1. failure to use available cover, or 2. too close when the action started (often with weapon still holstered). Don't let it happen to you; stay ahead of the curve.

It's not PC to say so, but a lot of times someone is victimized or gets in trouble because they lead a high-risk lifestyle. Drugs, "Bad" bars, buddies who are stupid or criminal-fringe, walking into trouble they could have easily avoided...these are common bad-choices that lead to trouble. Actually, eliminate stupid-stuff, get out of bad neighborhoods and high-risk lifestyles and you eliminate half your risk of crime...add informed awareness and avoidance and you're up to 90% or more. I sincerely hope to live a long life and never once need the weapons I carry daily. But if I do, I plan to keep in mind that "action" is much faster than "re-action"!

Remember, also, that the MOST you ever say to ANYONE after defending yourself is: "I was in fear of my life, and acted to stop the threat. I want my lawyer!" Actually, just the last four words will do;)

Credits to Rubiconner "dbrown" for the following section:

**Avoidance, Deterrence, De-escalation will keep you from having to bet your life on your firearm skills, AND avoid the legal nightmare that almost always follows any shooting, however justified.

Did you ever notice you never see the headline "gunsite grad blasts mugger" or "student of Thunder Ranch takes on street gang and wins"?

I think one of the most important benefits of good training is that it makes you more aware of the reality of violent conflict and your own limitations so you start looking for other options...like being somewhere else.

One of my first instructors had a great saying:

"Why did you get into a gunfight?...you got into a gunfight because you weren't fishing." **

I agree wholeheartedly...I'd rather fish than fight anyday;)

For informational purposes only, reader is responsible for his own actions and for compliance with local law. Carrying a weapon for self-defense is a Constitutional Right, but its exercise is also an awesome responsibility, not to be taken lightly. Lethal force should always be the last resort, and the consequences are often harsh, even if you were in the right.
Goshin


Offline leverfan

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 11:12:49 AM »
Here are a few more reasons why you can't rely on racking the slide in an emergency:

One of your arms may be injured.
One of your arms may be busy fending off an attacker.
One of your arms may be busy helping a child or spouse to safety.
One of your arms may be busy opening a door so that you can run the $%&* out of Dodge.
Etc., etc., etc.....
NRA life member

Offline Savage

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4397
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 05:47:42 PM »
Why anyone would want to carry an unloaded weapon is beyond me. Leaverfan gave some  good examples of situtations where you might not have both hands available to chamber your weapon. One other thing comes to mind as well. All your pratice would need to begin with a holstered, empty chambered weapon to insure the technique is totally ingrained into muscle memory. Sounds like a lose-lose situtation to me!
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline kid_couteau

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 444
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2007, 01:06:59 PM »
I rarely carry but when I do I carry without one in the pipe

I figure the odds of me getting into such a situation is rare cause I always try to remember the first rule of self defense.  Stay away from dangerous areas if you can. Of course things can go wrong anywhere.

Also I worry about accidental discharges.  Yes with modern designs guns are less likely to go off on their own but they are still a machine and machines break or wear out unexpectedly.

I feel this way especially in the case of shoulder rigs that carry the gun horizontally.  If I have a gun with one in the pipe, and I am carrying it horizontally, then I am sweeping everyone around me whenever I move.

I cant stand the thought of ever having to shoot anyone, I really cant bear the thought of an AD killing an innocent.

Just my thoughts on it
Take care
Kid

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2007, 02:38:52 PM »
Kid.  That is a classic example of a false sense of security.   Shooting occur in even the best of places.  It is your choice, but for me, I had rather try to stack the cards to my advantage.  Most often, when a SHTF situation occurs, you only have a split second to respond.

I prefer the old Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared."

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2007, 12:52:42 AM »
I have too agree with RB.
If we had GOOD crystal balls I might trust not having one chambered.
IMO, to carry a weapon without a round chambered is more dangerous than with a round chambered.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline S.S.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2007, 10:52:50 AM »
Coppertop...
 The name of the organization is the Mossad.
Without a doubt the most highly trained operatives in the world..
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2007, 12:20:49 PM »
Yep!  Always!  Absolutely without question!  Never a doubt!    Mikey.

Offline sherpa

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Gender: Male
Re: Round in chamber?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2007, 03:52:08 PM »
yes
IF I HAD KNOWN I WAS GOING TO LIVE THIS LONG I WOULD HAVE TAKEN BETTER CARE OF MYSELF.