please answer

[catdaddy]

i have been thinking about foot hold traps and how every animal rights group says foot hold traps mame, torture, mutilate and cause horrible pain, now we all know this is crap, but i have read sights that trappers have said that animals barely feel the trap on their paw, but this is not exactly true, we all have snapped are hands and fingers in foot holds, it hurts, but not so bad that wed chew are finger off, but is causes not so much as bad pain, just discomfort to a high degree. what are yalls thoughts about this subject

[Bogmaster]

 An animals foot is a lot tougher than your fingers---.
 Tom

[coyotero]

My theory is after a while the foot "goes to sleep" with the reduction in circulation.

[Seldom]

In my opinion it's a perception caused by unknowledgeable people using foothold traps improperly and using improper equipment for the intended animal.  Though I'm retired, the past several years I've worked on a large toxicology project for a state university as a trapper and general, do-it-all  "old geezer".  The students and grads prior to graduating are required to watch a video of anti-trapping content and one of pro-trapping content (fair & balance hopefully).  Then they meet me when they hire onto the project and the "real" trapping education starts, or at least the best I can offer!! 

Some of these young people are students but many are multi-degreed, young scientists working on the project building their resume.  We use foothold traps in order to LIVE-catch some of the animals for sample-taking.  I've modified the footholds to match the animal we need to LIVE trap.  Case in-point, we've LIVE-trapped Great Blue Herons the past two years using modified #3 Victor Softcatch footholds.  I've modified the traps by replacing the stock coil springs to a much smaller size and replaced the chain with a 3/8" bungee cord.  We have NEVER had an injury to a bird.  NOT ONE injury of any kind and we've caught a bunch of birds.

The layout-


The catch-


I've instigated and perpetuated a lot of discussion with the young folks working with me on the project concerning the exact same question you've asked.  I've done my best to answers this question while standing in the water trapping mink, on a floodplain getting ready to dispatch canids, and of course the trapping of herons to name a few.  I figure some these young scientists could wind up some day being one that has to make a decision that will either negatively or positively impact our trapping regs.  I want to make sure as I can to show them something factual other then perceptions.  Hopefully they'll remember!

[catdaddy]

ive cought foxes and coons and posums in footholds, they all were asleep when i walked up on them, bogmaster how much tougher is a animals foot than ours, is it because of the pad at the bottom of it

[Bogmaster]

 Pads, fur,and they are not wearing of shoes,makes an animals foot--awful tough.
 Tom

[ken w.]

Depending on what animal you may want it to hurt a bit.A coyote wont fight a trap if it hurts everytime he lunges and his knuckle is being squeezed by the trap.I have watched this before.And after awhile the trap will stop circulation and pain will stop.I think the correct size trap and set at the right spot is the best way to ensure a properly caught animal.Just my opinion.

[catdaddy]

so does the right sized trap always stop circulation and pain,or does this seldomly happen

[Asa Lenon]

Also, I don't believe from observation that animals have the same perception of pain a humans. Antis of course suffer from Disney syndrome that animals are all little people in a slightly different shape or form.  For example of pain perception, my Labrador tugged on a stick until he pulled out a tooth, runs through the woods and gravel until his feet and ears are bleeding and raw, thinks its all in a days fun and ready to go again at the drop of the word. Ace

[ncmountainman]

Seldom, Long ago when I trapped some ponds and on a lake I released two large herons unharmed out of #1 longspring traps. I saw one of the same type on the French Broad river that someone had shot in the chest and killed, possibly out of a trap by sometime during those same years. We can only hope that more people will remember the good examples like you. I appreciate your input on the mink thread. Flexibility is the key.

[catdaddy]

when you put it like that, my dogs are all clumsy,and not very bright,  two of them every day tug on a rope, a few months ago i saw them do the rope and my jack russel's tooth came out, he went right back to the rope, probaly when wild animals  are in a trap they think some thing is biteing their foot

[Asa Lenon]

That is what I mean by "perception of pain" Catdaddy. Can you imaging the pain if one of our teeth were jerked out without  novocaine??? Yet the dogs seem to pay no attention to something like that even though blood is running down their chin. Ace

[catdaddy]

what kinds of dogs you got asa

[Asa Lenon]

Just have a 120 lb yellow Labrador Retriever right now Catdaddy.  I have had several Labs in the past along with an Airedale, Samoyed and several pet coyotes. Ace

[RdFx]

Asa any pet yote stories?  Had a friend that had one out west Montana, had to put it down as it was munching on anyone   as he got older, some nasty bites.

[Asa Lenon]

Never had any problems with a male 'yote RdFx but when I was a kid my Dad learned the hard way when we raised a female dug from a den while its eyes were still closed. The female was mischivous and harassed the dog in fun all the time but was perfect loving intelligent pet otherwise until it was 1 1/2 years old and went into heat. She immediately hated all females and had to be tied up because it would attack the dog visciously.  One day it broke the chain and when my Mother come outside it attacked here, had her down on the ground and chewed her arms up good. The coyote was going for Mother's throat but being a tough old country trapper herself she was able to fight it off. Fortunately my Dad drove into the yard at the right time, grabbed the coyote and shot it between the eyes with a .22 Woodsman he always carried on his side and collected the $20.00 bounty we had on coyotes at the time.  Sure learned a lot about coyotes likes, dislikes, cleverness and variable moods determined by the weather by keeping a few for pets. Ace

[ncmountainman]

This post has gone to the dogs.

[RdFx]

Woof-woof!