Sloppy slide to frame fit

[guzzi2000]

I have two Springfield 1911's a longslide and a mil spec. The longslide's fit is tight but the mil spec seems sloppy. Is there a way to tighten up the slide to frame fit?

[Mikey]

guzzi - ya got two different guns there.  The Longslide is pretty close to a custom gun and does not come in a 'combat' configuration.  I would assume the tighter slide to frame fit is maximize the accuracy of the longer barrel and sights/sight radius. 

The mil-spec should dang well seem sloppy in comparison but if you want a 45 for any kind of serious work you would want the mil-spec - that extra slop you refer to is a design feature which allows the pistol to function reliably under adverse field conditions.  If the pistol shoots accurately enough for you, and you cannot make a vaild (or fair) comparison against the Longslide, then leave it be.  If it really bothers you or if you feel it is beyond tolerances and is way tooooooo sloppy, send it back to Springfield and they will tighten the slide for you.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Lloyd Smale]

what he said

guzzi - ya got two different guns there.  The Longslide is pretty close to a custom gun and does not come in a 'combat' configuration.  I would assume the tighter slide to frame fit is maximize the accuracy of the longer barrel and sights/sight radius. 

The mil-spec should dang well seem sloppy in comparison but if you want a 45 for any kind of serious work you would want the mil-spec - that extra slop you refer to is a design feature which allows the pistol to function reliably under adverse field conditions.  If the pistol shoots accurately enough for you, and you cannot make a vaild (or fair) comparison against the Longslide, then leave it be.  If it really bothers you or if you feel it is beyond tolerances and is way tooooooo sloppy, send it back to Springfield and they will tighten the slide for you.  HTH.  Mikey.

[jstevens]

They usually stake them to tighten them, at least in the old days.  This is a pretty imprecise art, taking a punch and flattening the rails so they fit tighter.  Actually if the bushing is tight, the barrel should be back into battery the same from round to round, just a little play in the back.  Tightening one of course can have a negative effect on reliability.

[SharonAnne]

i kinda think Springfield probably knows how to tighten up a 1911

[williamlayton]

Check around there are many GOOD smiths which can do the work (Read $'s) if that is your desire.
I like a little slop and I agree that is the way it was first produced.
SharonAnne and I come from two different perspectives.
She is correct that it will make it a little more accurate and, for her world, that is the desire.
Mine tend too get a little linty and dirty. When I go too the range, the first ones on the line are those i have had in the truck awhile. I empty all the mags in this first round--lint and all. Then they get reloaded with fresh ammo.
Now onto the pratice.
Blessings

[SharonAnne]

I said nothing about increasing accuracy. A comment was made about the crude method of frame/slide tightening. I merely said that I think Springfield knows what they are doing.

"for her world"  what world is that william? Competition? THE greatest requirement of a competition pistol is reliability. Unlike bullseye competition, practical competition allows no alibis. If your pistol malfunctions, too bad, so sad, you lose. The crucible of practical competition ( USPSA/IPSC/IDPA) places a premium on reliability. Just as a defensive pistol must, a practical competition pistol must work first time,every time. Yes, in competition you only lose a match, not your life. In either case you lose. Competition lets you find out what works, so if/when you need it to save your life, you know it will work;first time, every time.

Like Timex watches, Eveready batteries and Zippo lighters.

Reliability is    NO.1
Ergonomics is NO.2
Accuracy is   NO.3

FYI my "competition" Limited division 45, Para 14/45 is also my carry/personal defense/home defense pistol. I trust its reliability with my life. Competition showed me the way.

[williamlayton]

Did I hit a nerve? Did not intend too.
Blessings

[Mikey]

SharonAnne said:  "I said nothing about increasing accuracy. A comment was made about the crude method of frame/slide tightening. I merely said that I think Springfield knows what they are doing."

This is exactly correct.  I have seen, and still have a old Colt 38 Super slide that shows the ball peening marks from some Army gunsmith's gross attempts to tighten things up a bit and the reason I got that slide along with a complete Army match gun was because the 38 (38 wadcutter barrel) wasn't accurate.  It is accurate now but wasn't after they had used the ball peening technique.

SharonAnne can correct me if I am wrong, and I hope she does it gently if the need arises.....but I believe competetion shooters determined long ago that a proper slide to barrel fit and a tight bushing to barrel fit gave you the degree of accuracy you needed in competetion and left the slide-slop for reliability. 

That being said I would like to learn to properly fit a barrel to a slide; just haven't gotten the knack of that one yet but someday, maybe, hopefully.......

[rbwillnj]

I can't remember where I read it....but my experience agrees with it at least qualitatively.  Slide to frame fit only accounts for about 15% of accuracy.   The other %85 comes from the barrel to slide and bushing to barrel and slide fit.

I have done accuracy jobs on several 1911's, all for myself.  The last gun I did was my Series 70 Gold Cup.  So I would have a "Service Pistol" with adequate accuracy for Distinguished Pistol matches.  I installed a new Kart "Gunsmith Fit" barrel and bushing, peaned the rails and squeezed the slide.  I ended up with a gun that would shoot 2 1/2" groups at 50 yards with hard ball ammo, and about 1 3/4" with lead semi-wadcutters.  That gun still has a little slide to frame play...but not much.  My Kimber Gold Match is actually has a tighter slide to frame fit, but the lock up and bushing fit are no where as tight.  I think I'd be lucky to get 3 1/2" groups with that gun....but I have never Ransom Rested it.

Peaning the rails and squeezing the slide to get a tight slide to frame fit is one way to do it (unless the gun is stainless) but the better way is to install Accurails which gives an excellent and LASTING slide to frame fit.  The problem with hammering and squeezing is that it doesn't last all that long.  Both methods are for competition guns not carry guns.

[SharonAnne]

 "hit a nerve"? I do not see how making a clear statement can be seen as 'hitting a nerve'. william, you presumed to speak for me. I was making sure you knew what 'her world' is. Your comment regarding me I see as inaccurate.

Yes, barrel,slide,bushing fit is the majority of accuracy. Slide to frame fit is said to be about 15% of accuracy. I have never tested those numbers.

[williamlayton]

Not my intention at all SA. I intended too speak for me and used your thoughts too show the difference in thoughts.
I apologize.
Blessings

[Flint]

As others have said here, the most important fit is barrel to slide.  That fit is to ensure that the bore and the sights are always in the same alignment when the slide closes.  So fit the barrel, bushing, hood to slide and use the link only to pull the barrel up and down, not to press against the locking lugs.  fit the bottom of the barrel's lug to the slide stop pin for vertical adjustment.

The slide to frame fit should be adjusted for reliability, it won't usually be so loose as to make much difference in the POI.

[1911crazy]

I talked with you guys a few years back about my loose slide on my norinco.  You guys said it was ok.  Now i did the slide and barrel bushing fitting(national match).  And with the loose slide it shoots one clover leaf per mag no matter who shoots it.  I did purchase the swage kit for the 1911 frame rails but i haven't used it yet. I would like to swage the frame rails just a tad to take out some of the looseness and wear at the front part of the frame rails. The swage kit can be found at www.brownells.com

But you guys were right it is accurate with just the national match barrel bushing.  I fitted the barrel bushing so there is no barrel spring when its locked in full battery with the lugs and it goes down to load another round perfectly.  Yet when its in full battery the barrel is snug in the barrel bushing.