The Combo Gun

[dougk]

I have been asked about the combo gun,  and  happen to have a 12 ga/30-06 that is my main hunting gun.  This combination or combo gun appears to be on an over under frame.  The top barrel is 12 ga. and the bottom barrel is in 30-06.  The rifle is topped with a Leupold scope.
The rifle is zeroed at 100 yds and the shotgun is zeroed at 50 yds.

The combination guns range is price from $400 to tens of thousands.  Several of the European manufacturers make these guns as pieces of art.

The combo I use is of Russian origin with free floating barrels.  The gun shots well for the first 2 rounds.  The third shot tends to walk up and to the left.  I understand this is due to the barrel heating.  I have not had a problem with the barrel heating in the field since I generally try for single shots, the most I have shot  the gun while hunting is 2 shots within 1 minute (I took 2 deer).

I hope this provides some insight into the combo gun.

Doug

[pastorp]

DougK, I have been considering a CZ combo gun. It too is a 12ga 30/06. The only experience I have with these is the older 22/410 combos. With the high power rifle combo do you run into any legal problems by having a shotgun and rifle both on any seasons? What are the advantages and disadvantages? Thanks for your opinions, Byron

[dougk]

Byron,
I looked at the CZ, it was my first choice.  However, my local gun shop could not find it in the 30-06, 12 ga combo.  Subsequently, I stumbled into the Baikal.  One big difference between the CZ and Baikal is that the Baikal has free floating barrels.  Currently the gun is zeroed at 100 yds for the 30-06 and 50 yds for the 12 ga, with the free floating barrels I can change the 12 ga to 100 yds.  I understand the barrels on the CZ require a gunsmith to change the sightings.

Legally, I have not had any problems.  If you are out during shotgun only hunting times dont carry and 30-06 ammo.

I have found the combo offers the best of both worlds, plus its cool to carry a combo.  :wink:

Good luck with your CZ purchase. it is a great looking gun.

[Drilling Man]

In the distant past i sold dozens of Valmet 412's in combi's, and they are EXCELENT shooters!!   They were offered in 12 ga. over with  several different rifle cals. under.

  I still have two and with the Valmet 412, you can ajust the bottom rifle bbl. to what ever load you prefer to use in that bbl..

  Long ago i designed a few "wildcat" rounds and i sold Valmets chambered in those cals. too.  I sold them in combi bbls., and also 0/U double rifles.

  I think the 412's are a great buy, as you can also get 0/U 12 and 20 guage bbls. too, along with the mentioned double rifle and combi bbls..  They all fit onto your action!!

  I think Valmet had about 26 different bbls. available that all would fit the 412 action, and many other options were offered too.  (they had to be dealer fit to your action when you bought them)

  Drilling Man

[TheCrowkiller]

I have a CZ model 584 combination gun in 7X57R and 12 gauge 2 3/4". I bought this gun used because CZ has discontinued both this model and their over/under shotgun. Here is my opinion:
 
Pros:  
Double triggers
Set trigger for rifle, a very nice touch.
I like the low profile sights
Scope mount is still available from CZ
Accessory .22 insert barrel available from CZ
Nice 3 shot groups possible with handloads
Cost was reasonable
Nicely finished
Strong, proven action (according to Ross Seifried)
 
Cons:
Rifle strings vertically if not completely cool between shots (1.5-2" high at 100 yards)
 Unusual caliber (but 30/06 was available)
Discontinued
Will change zero if disassembled for cleaning, i.e. if forend is removed and barrels separated from the action.  Last time this happened, the group moved 3" to the left. (Not necessarily a con, since I would expect the same of a bolt action if the stock was removed).

[BoarHunter]

The old Valmet are considered the top of the "popular" combination gun but not the new one made in Italy.

The real bargains were the Merkel before the 90's made in GDR.

The Brno are good but really heavy.

The Italian Zoli are OK but not as strong as the others.

Now, although I live currently in France, I am not french (I am beglian) and I understand american's feelings about the frenchs, feelings I share by the way ! but there is a french company that makes quite good combination gun that deserves to be known.

I own one. It's  mechanism resembles the Beretta O/U and it has a 12 Magmun chambering.

Here is the picture.


It is made by Verney Caron (http://www.verney-carron.com/pages-us2/iii_index-us.htm), a very old French firm which by the way makes the rifled barrels sold in the US under the Hastings name.

May be there is an importer in the US for it.

[mmsb27]

The old Valmet are considered the top of the "popular" combination gun but not the new one made in Italy.

The real bargains were the Merkel before the 90's made in GDR.

The Brno are good but really heavy.

The Italian Zoli are OK but not as strong as the others.

Now, although I live currently in France, I am not french (I am beglian) and I understand american's feelings about the frenchs, feelings I share by the way ! but there is a french company that makes quite good combination gun that deserves to be known.

I own one. It's  mechanism resembles the Beretta O/U and it has a 12 Magmun chambering.

Here is the picture.


It is made by Verney Caron (http://www.verney-carron.com/pages-us2/iii_index-us.htm), a very old French firm which by the way makes the rifled barrels sold in the US under the Hastings name.

May be there is an importer in the US for it.

Boar Hunter:

Very interesting gun.  I ahve not seen them.....  not even in Germany.  Have you ever heard of a over/under gun  called a Princess"?  

16 gauge, over 5,6x50R Mag?  Looks like it might be an Italian or German made o/u.  

regards
Mark

[roe_deer]

  ...Have you ever heard of a over/under gun  called a Princess"?  

16 gauge, over 5,6x50R Mag?  Looks like it might be an Italian or German made o/u.  

regards
Mark

Years ago a "Princess" O/U combination gun was beeing imported to Germany from northern Italy by a wholesaler named Helmut Hofmann Mellrichstadt.
RD

[mmsb27]

Thanks Roe Deer.  Are they still being made?

regards
Mark

[roe_deer]

Thanks Roe Deer.  Are they still being made?

regards
Mark

The Italian plant still sells combos like this but not to Hofmann and not under that "nome de guerre".
BTW, it was called "prinzess" after the name of the head gunsmith who's name was 'Prinz'.

BTW the German expression for a over/under rifle/shotgun combination is Bockbüchsflinte (Flinte = shotgun, Büchse = rifle, "Bock" has nothing to do with 'buck' - although the German word for buck is Bock - in this case Bock means "stacked" - over/under).  

RD

[Rabbit-Slayer]

 Have a question on the valmet 412. Have one with a set of 06 barrels and 12ga. also.
Looking at buying a new barrel set in 9.3x74R .
 The problem is I can buy a new Finclassic set fit to my gun for $995.00 .
On the plus side the new sights are better,negative is the blueing is a brushed satin.
Option 2 is a set of new old stock Valmet Barrels same price not fitted and everything would look the same
as now,bluing,sights.

 How hard is it to fit a new set of barrels to a 412 valmet? Whats involved? Any instructions for my gunsmith
out there?

 

                 Thanks

[Drilling Man]

How hard is it to fit a new set of barrels to a 412 valmet? Whats involved? Any instructions for my gunsmith
out there?

  412 bbls are where ever you find them, and i see quite a few of them around on, "on line" gun auctions..

  Find and buy the bbls, if your gunsmith is any good, he shouldn't have any problems installing them..

  BTW  I prefer the 412 bbls over the 512 sets...

  DM