If you're going down, go down swingin'

[Crimson Mister]

Those are words that I was taught early in life and even though I've been faced with overwhelming odds at times, I've always planted my right foot and drove the first punch in as hard as I could. I've been lurking in the shadows for about 5 months now and I've just been educated to the fact that I haven't been around long enough to express an opinion so if I'm gonna get my ass cyber kicked, I'll let you know what I think.
  The owner of this site appears to have buckled to some outside force who has threatened him with financial penalty if he doesn't pull his gun ads. While it IS his site, asking a simple question like who is putting the pressure on is not out of line. However when I did I was told it was none of my business. Well the way I see it, if it was none of anyone's business then why was the point made that there was an "organization" threatening to take cash out of his pockets if he didn't conform to their rules. If he didn't want to raise questions all that would of had to been said is, "No more gun ads cuz I said so and that's that." I simply asked who was turning the screws so that I knew who to boycott but I got a reply that seemed to come from someone who thought he was my Daddy. So I had to give him the needle a little in another post and I think I've been threatened with the ban stick. Well if that's the way it is around here, then go ahead and whoop me with it cuz I have opinions and every other outdoors forum let's me express them. If money is the thing the Administrator worries most about, then how's the balance sheet gonna look when all your traffic is either banned or walks. I have no time for someone who would sell their first two amendment rights down the river for a few pesos anyway. It's funny how many outdoor forums get along with no advertising or trinkett sales at all AND allow firearms classifieds but this one would have to shut it's doors if I sold a 10/22 in the classifieds. Go ahead "Oh Bearded One", come clean with us. Was it Handgun Hunters International or Citizens for Honesty in Politics? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[jimster]

I'm not sure I should even put my 2 cents in....but the people who run this site pour gobs of their own time and money into trying to keep it running, and this is one of the top sites in the U.S. as far as I'm concerned.  Nobody is here to cyber kick your butt, unless you go out of your way to ask for it....pardon me sir, but from where I sit your kinda asking for it simply by showing a bit of disrespect to the ones that pour their time and money into this...and it does look a tad personal from where I am sitting. 

I'm sure the keepers of this site, Greybeard, is balancing things well, and there are things to consider I'm sure....I would like to keep this site around myself, it has a wealth of info for everyone, and it's free...but not REALLY free for Greybeard, or the moderators and people that pour their time and money into it.

There are times when I should keep my mouth shut too...this may well be one of them...I just wanted to point out a couple of things...just cause'.....
I have no problem with your opinion...I don't think the keeper/keepers of this site does either...your post is here for all to read.  That speaks for itself.

[Graybeard]

Yes Crimson I really should just kick your cyber butt out and be done with it. But I'm in a good mood tonight so am gonna endure this one LAST time of it from you.

You have absolutely no clue what's going on and have no business knowing. You remind me much of a nemisis of mine from days long gone by but either are or pretend to be too young to be him. So I'll give you the benefit of a doubt in this matter.

Since you have no clue what's going on why don't you just either stay the hell out of my business and stay or go as you see fit and let ME not you run this site. Hmm, maybe I'm not in as good a mood as I thought I was.

Nothing you THINK is apparent is apparent. We made a simple management decision. One I've made at least three times in the past and took the exact same action each time. Each of those times we brought them back once we had resolved the issues we felt needed to be resolved.

If you read much here you'd have seen we've already announced that his weekend the classifieds sale of guns and ammo will be restored. We have once again worked out the issues we needed to work out.

We've explained the things Matt has personally endured and explained we have no idea who was/is behind it. If we knew we "might" share it or we might not depending on who it turned out to be. Some things are best left unsaid, a lesson if you live long enough perhaps you'll learn. If you don't learn it soon you'll not be here to bother me at least. No that's not a threat it's a promise.

GBO is a family owned and operated business. Management decisions are made by my family NOT the members of this site. We do NOT feel we need to explain every management decision we make to the general membership and are NOT going to. We make management decisions every single day and never bother explaining them. But all of a sudden some one like yourself with a whopping total of ten posts as of the time I write this and who has been a member only since December 01, 2006, 03:19:38 AM proving you're a relative newcomer and that you've made no attempt prior to now to contribute to the site now wish to force me to explain my actions to you. I'll not bother.

You have three choices  as I see it you can make.

1. You can fade back into the wood work and hang around and perhaps one day become a productive and worthwhile member of the site.

2. You can continue to show your ass and force my hand and be banned from this site.

3. You can just leave quietly like a gentleman since you clearly don't seem to like this site anyway.

Perhaps there are other options but as I see it any of them will still result in one of the above end results.

Make your choice.

[Crimson Mister]

I really don't have time to be someone's "nemisis" so that's not the motivation. Just to make sure that I wasn't "Showing my ass" when this thing started, I went back and read my three word question that started this conversation and I still don't see anything in there that would cause you to say something to the effect of sit down and shut up. As I stated earlier, my question was posed because I wanted to know who was doing it and if there was anything I could do to help. While I was looking at the thread, I also did see your last post there which was very informative. Much more civil than the STHU that I got earlier. I would also like to point out that through this entire discussion, I have not resorted to name calling because I don't feel that it makes any point other than turning the conversation even more caustic.

I do not walk around with a chip on my shoulder looking for trouble and I believe you have some regulars here that can verify this from other forums. I don't routinely put up posts that have a belligerent tone either because I don't get my jollies by angering folks. I stepped away from AR after 400 posts because I have no need to argue over the internet with people that may or may not really exist. If I want to argue, my wife is sitting in the other room.

As I see it, you have three choices:

1. Ban me and be done with it and use me as an example to the rest of the readership to tow the line.

2. Allow me to pose questions and respond with common decency.

3. Continue to kick me in the hangy down things and I'll continue to kick back. Which will bring us back to #1 anyway.

The ball's in your court. After all, you own the ball and the court. I've been told that you're a good guy by people I respect, I hope they're right and that we can change the tone of our conversation. If not, good luck and God bless you. (and I mean that)

[Matt]

Look folks it has been said many many times now THAT WE DO NOT AS OF YET KNOW WHO IS BEHIND ALL OF THIS but we do know that there was WAY TO MANY people who was in violation of our rules as I personally will inquire about a firearm sale under one of my alt usernames and if the response I get is "dont worry about the FFL crap just give me your address" then guess what... Ad goes away and member goes away. Now how often do I do this... hmmm nah not gonna tell ya but it is not that often and only if I feel the need or GB feels the need.

I will make the GBO membership a promise right now... JUST AS SOON AS I FIND OUT WHO I WILL TELL YOU. No matter who it is or what harm I am subject to for doing so. I assure you if I knew who was behind this it would be posted in BIG BOLD LETTERS BUT I DONT. My attorney has contacted those who I have been contacted by (Local Sheriff's Office and DHS )and though I am not a sue happy person the papers are ready all I got to do is sign them and we are underway but as soon as I do that I am sure the rest of my personal life will go to (censored word) so only if my hand is forced will I do this.

Now maybe I should not have made the statement about an un-named agency and should have said "un-known" but what is done can not be un-done. It was my hopes that the group/agency or whoever would see the post and then offline come to me but they did not unless it is DHS or the local Sheriff as those are the only ones I have had contact with at this time. But folks let me tell you when you are sitting in your own home minding your own business and some one knocks on your door and places you in handcuffs and tells you to sit down shut up or you will never see the light of day again many things may go through your head but if you are smart you will do as you are told and I did. Firearm sells was the only thing that GBO could have possibly been in any way in violation of and therefore were stopped until we talked with legal counsel and we had a system in place to cover our buts. The system will be in place this weekend and all should go back to normal.

You will have to give the following info if you want to sell a gun on GBO:
First Name:
Last Name:
Username:
Email Addy:
and you will have to electronically sign an agreement that states you swear to abide by ALL STATE AND FEDERAL laws as they pertain to firearm sells... This is not debatable and if you do not want to do this then there are many many other sites that will let you do as you wish. My guess is that the other large sites will soon adopt the same type of policy once they are on the receiving end of what I have been on if this was the cause of what has happen to me but either way this is how it will be done period.


I will only say this once so listen close, I WILL NOT BE THE EXAMPLE for those who want to break the laws. Tell me why was it that the search warrant clearly stated that I had multiple firearms not registered to me along with stolen computers  and drugs when in fact I do not have any firearms not regisitered to me nor do I have any stolen computers or drugs (other than perscription ones in my name). Some one clearly is gunning for me or GBO and cleary are monitoring every thing I say on this site so what would you do if you was in my shoes... tell me please... or sit down and shut up... cause if my response would have been any different then you would not be reading this right now I would be willing to bet.

Matt

[Matt]

Oh and by the way just so you know... Citizens for Honesty in Politics IS MY SITE and HAS NO OUTSIDE SPONSORSHIP or member base for that matter it was a site I set up before the election in hopes of offering a place for people to talk politics away from GBO but I never had the time to devote to it for working on GBO so I just let it go and have not pushed it because I already have to many irons in the fire.

But please tell me what the hell Citizens for HONESTY in POLITICS could possibly have to do with gun sale bans? Also why the hell would HHI want to stop gun sells when it is for hunters and shooters...you was just grabbing at straws on that one I think... And to those who are running around saying that GBO has bent to the whims of the anti's or a new sponsor... well first tell me who this NEW sponsor is or who this anti group is or shut up cause all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire and running your mouth about something you know absolutely nothing about. GBO WILL NEVER give in to the anti’s at least not as long as GB is President and I am Vice to the President…

Matt

[Graybeard]

Was it Handgun Hunters International or Citizens for Honesty in Politics?

Say what?

HHI is an organization started by JD Jones of SSK Industries. Both are sponsors but I've been a member of HHI almost since the beginning of it. While I've never met JD in person I consider him a friend and we've spoken by phone on many occasions. JD doesn't even read websites and for sure has never tried to in any way interfere with the running of this one, hell he doesn't read such sites so has no clue what even goes on here. Why would such a progun person as he have any issues in this matter? Where in the world did you pull that rabbit out of the hat? Jeez get a clue at least.

As Matt said the other is just a GBO owned and operated website started by him that never really got off the ground but which he still hopes one day will. You are really grasping at straws here.

I've been far more patient with you than I normally am. Most folks who've hassled me as much as you so far have been banned. What began this wasn't a question at all but a comment that was in my opinion out of place for a new member and really would have been for a longer term one. I deleted it and substituted my comments in red. You've been given all the info you are going to get on the matter. We don't know who the source of our problems of late is. But in answer to folks question has illegal stuff been going on yes it has and no we're not going to allow it to continue and yes if you do something illegal and we are aware we will cooperate fully with police investigations as we always have and yes as I've previously said that has happened several times over the years.

[Crimson Mister]

Ok, the CHP and HHI reference was sarcasm. I knew it was neither of these groups, they just happened to be the banners that were at the top of the page when I was writing the post.

The reference to the question I posed was not in this forum but in the classified forum where Matt posted the no firearms deal and I asked who the organization was. I got thrashed for that. That's why I posted the "smart ass" comment on the other thread.

With those clarifications, I would also like to apologize. I always react badly when I feel like I'm being stepped on and that's the point of view I was working from. No more qualifications to it, just I'm sorry.

By the way GB, if you gave me more rope than most it must mean I'm even more charming than I thought.

Rich